Guest guest Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 --- Kumaraguru Iyer <kumaranvijaya wrote: > > Dear Friends, > Nmaste. Is any body knows KENOUPANISHAD. I want to > study it deeply. Can anybody could help me out. Namaste all, As Mr Iyer has yet to pick up my previous offering and pose a question I will try to provoke a response. Much of our spiritual work is there to encourage a response from the object of our entreaties through rites etc. At its lowest level these relate to wealth, health and a vibrant family. The Kena Upanishad begins after eight chapters have been given over to such practices and begins immediately with that which will make us question as to what lies behind such desires and point to that which is beyond the reach of ritual. 'Willed by whom does the directed mind go towards its object?' Mr Iyer asked for guidance in his study...ie. his mind was directed towards some object which he will have percieved. He would be able to observe the apparent outward force or impulse. Was it his will that directed the vital force flowing through him to proceed towards this event in his dharma? Let us take an everyday situation. We are driving the car or riding the bicycle or tapping at keys. Are we in fact doing any of these actions to fulfil our own individual aim? If we try to 'do' the action then we will crash the car, fall off the bicycle or type tyhjsre instead of the. If we take a step back in our observation...for every action.....then we will notice that whereas we have been 'seeing' now the hearing sense comes into view and more space is apparent and more rest in the action is available. This is the first step in the 'letting go' for these two senses are strongest for most of us; so the upanishad asks: 'Who is the effulgent being who directs the eyes and the ears?' Taking a step back is the fruit of letting go for it is not possible to make the return journey into Absolute by acquiring anything new, including knowledge, because self-identification with the senses has been practised for far too long a long time and we all become experts after much practice. We need to become 'intelligent beings'...dhIrAH, by acknowledging Who is in fact the true impulse willing the eyes to see, ears to hear, speech to be spoken and the vital force to be. This renunciation of any claim upon 'my' life or 'my' spiritual progress allows the easy unveiling to begin. Such an approach is not the way we have been taught and so we, having been excited by a taste of such a wonderful sweetness that will have arisen in us, want to find a way to proceed. So in verse three we are told that the 'eye does not go there, nor speech nor mind. We do not know Brahman to be such and such; hence we are not aware of any process of instructing about it.' Brahman, being everywhere, cannot be an object. That our reason can appreciate. But such a statement as that of the upanishad could be disheartening so what are we to do as long as we are trapped in the cycle of belief in action and objects. What then is the purpose of instruction? Instruction and diligent practice dissolve the veils of ignorance and so in verse four we are directed to the words of the wise, the sruti and the next five verses of Part One give the instruction so gracefully handed to us, if we have ears to hear, eyes to see etc. The relevant verses are in the previous posting. We can look more carefully at the verses and Shankara's commentary if anyone wishes or proceed to Part Two. This has only been a quick first glance. I hope that someone will clear up any misunderstandings that have been placed above, Ken Knight > > > > > > > Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Dear Sir, I am realy happy to meet you through this e mail. I am reading your letters. I want to tell you that I am a slow reader. Very very slow in reading books. I feel you are my best Teacher in Keno Upanishad. I want to know who is Mr Sunderji. I am reading your letters. if you are with me I think I will definetly will have some know ledge about Keno Upanishad. I want know from wich part of the nation you are talking. And also your profile. Kumaraguru ken knight <hilken_98 wrote: --- Kumaraguru Iyer <kumaranvijaya wrote: > > Dear Friends, > Nmaste. Is any body knows KENOUPANISHAD. I want to > study it deeply. Can anybody could help me out. Namaste all, As Mr Iyer has yet to pick up my previous offering and pose a question I will try to provoke a response. Much of our spiritual work is there to encourage a response from the object of our entreaties through rites etc. At its lowest level these relate to wealth, health and a vibrant family. The Kena Upanishad begins after eight chapters have been given over to such practices and begins immediately with that which will make us question as to what lies behind such desires and point to that which is beyond the reach of ritual. 'Willed by whom does the directed mind go towards its object?' Mr Iyer asked for guidance in his study...ie. his mind was directed towards some object which he will have percieved. He would be able to observe the apparent outward force or impulse. Was it his will that directed the vital force flowing through him to proceed towards this event in his dharma? Let us take an everyday situation. We are driving the car or riding the bicycle or tapping at keys. Are we in fact doing any of these actions to fulfil our own individual aim? If we try to 'do' the action then we will crash the car, fall off the bicycle or type tyhjsre instead of the. If we take a step back in our observation...for every action.....then we will notice that whereas we have been 'seeing' now the hearing sense comes into view and more space is apparent and more rest in the action is available. This is the first step in the 'letting go' for these two senses are strongest for most of us; so the upanishad asks: 'Who is the effulgent being who directs the eyes and the ears?' Taking a step back is the fruit of letting go for it is not possible to make the return journey into Absolute by acquiring anything new, including knowledge, because self-identification with the senses has been practised for far too long a long time and we all become experts after much practice. We need to become 'intelligent beings'...dhIrAH, by acknowledging Who is in fact the true impulse willing the eyes to see, ears to hear, speech to be spoken and the vital force to be. This renunciation of any claim upon 'my' life or 'my' spiritual progress allows the easy unveiling to begin. Such an approach is not the way we have been taught and so we, having been excited by a taste of such a wonderful sweetness that will have arisen in us, want to find a way to proceed. So in verse three we are told that the 'eye does not go there, nor speech nor mind. We do not know Brahman to be such and such; hence we are not aware of any process of instructing about it.' Brahman, being everywhere, cannot be an object. That our reason can appreciate. But such a statement as that of the upanishad could be disheartening so what are we to do as long as we are trapped in the cycle of belief in action and objects. What then is the purpose of instruction? Instruction and diligent practice dissolve the veils of ignorance and so in verse four we are directed to the words of the wise, the sruti and the next five verses of Part One give the instruction so gracefully handed to us, if we have ears to hear, eyes to see etc. The relevant verses are in the previous posting. We can look more carefully at the verses and Shankara's commentary if anyone wishes or proceed to Part Two. This has only been a quick first glance. I hope that someone will clear up any misunderstandings that have been placed above, Ken Knight > > > > > > > Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup. Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Dear Sir, I am realy happy to meet you through this e mail. I am reading your letters. I want to tell you that I am a slow reader. Very very slow in reading books. I feel you are my best Teacher in Keno Upanishad. I want to know who is Mr Sunderji. I am reading your letters. if you are with me I think I will definetly will have some know ledge about Keno Upanishad. I want know from wich part of the nation you are talking. And also your profile. Kumaraguru ken knight <hilken_98 wrote: --- Kumaraguru Iyer <kumaranvijaya wrote: > > Dear Friends, > Nmaste. Is any body knows KENOUPANISHAD. I want to > study it deeply. Can anybody could help me out. Namaste all, As Mr Iyer has yet to pick up my previous offering and pose a question I will try to provoke a response. Much of our spiritual work is there to encourage a response from the object of our entreaties through rites etc. At its lowest level these relate to wealth, health and a vibrant family. The Kena Upanishad begins after eight chapters have been given over to such practices and begins immediately with that which will make us question as to what lies behind such desires and point to that which is beyond the reach of ritual. 'Willed by whom does the directed mind go towards its object?' Mr Iyer asked for guidance in his study...ie. his mind was directed towards some object which he will have percieved. He would be able to observe the apparent outward force or impulse. Was it his will that directed the vital force flowing through him to proceed towards this event in his dharma? Let us take an everyday situation. We are driving the car or riding the bicycle or tapping at keys. Are we in fact doing any of these actions to fulfil our own individual aim? If we try to 'do' the action then we will crash the car, fall off the bicycle or type tyhjsre instead of the. If we take a step back in our observation...for every action.....then we will notice that whereas we have been 'seeing' now the hearing sense comes into view and more space is apparent and more rest in the action is available. This is the first step in the 'letting go' for these two senses are strongest for most of us; so the upanishad asks: 'Who is the effulgent being who directs the eyes and the ears?' Taking a step back is the fruit of letting go for it is not possible to make the return journey into Absolute by acquiring anything new, including knowledge, because self-identification with the senses has been practised for far too long a long time and we all become experts after much practice. We need to become 'intelligent beings'...dhIrAH, by acknowledging Who is in fact the true impulse willing the eyes to see, ears to hear, speech to be spoken and the vital force to be. This renunciation of any claim upon 'my' life or 'my' spiritual progress allows the easy unveiling to begin. Such an approach is not the way we have been taught and so we, having been excited by a taste of such a wonderful sweetness that will have arisen in us, want to find a way to proceed. So in verse three we are told that the 'eye does not go there, nor speech nor mind. We do not know Brahman to be such and such; hence we are not aware of any process of instructing about it.' Brahman, being everywhere, cannot be an object. That our reason can appreciate. But such a statement as that of the upanishad could be disheartening so what are we to do as long as we are trapped in the cycle of belief in action and objects. What then is the purpose of instruction? Instruction and diligent practice dissolve the veils of ignorance and so in verse four we are directed to the words of the wise, the sruti and the next five verses of Part One give the instruction so gracefully handed to us, if we have ears to hear, eyes to see etc. The relevant verses are in the previous posting. We can look more carefully at the verses and Shankara's commentary if anyone wishes or proceed to Part Two. This has only been a quick first glance. I hope that someone will clear up any misunderstandings that have been placed above, Ken Knight > > > > > > > Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup. Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 --- Kumaraguru Iyer <kumaranvijaya wrote: > I want know from wich part of the nation you are > talking. And also your profile. Namaste Kumaraguru, It is good to hear from you and hear is a quick reply to you and the next step in the Kena. I am pleased that this study is of use to you. When you first asked to share some study I thought of taking this verse by verse but the way it has turned out is that we are dealing with the four parts individually and then later, if you wish, we can look at certain verses or words. You ask for my profile. I will keep it very brief for now, but I live near to London and have retired from a professional life in education. As a young man I travelled through the Arab and Indian lands which inspired a love of Sufi poetry, initially through Kabir, then to the Japji Sahib of Guru Nanak and later to early enquiry into Vedanta. In Western thought Plato and Gurdjieff have been of interest. However, if there is any understanding that I have been able to pass on, it has been through the grace of two ladies whom I met briefly, for a total time of no more than an hour between the two, and the meetings were many years apart. One was Sri Anandamayee Ma in Varanasi in 1967 who saw through the stutterings of a young man with no training in spiritual enquiry to plant, in a single glance, the seeds that are beginning to bear fruit at this later stage of life. The other was a lady who appeared one morning while I was staying at an ashram in Tamil Nadu. I had been seeking an answer to a question upon the place of bhakti in Shankara’s advaita and through that meeting I was shown the answer. Sunderji lives in USA and we found through this site that we both knew a certain Swami. You will find his profile in the archives of this site and I am sure that he could give you much more on the Kena Upanishad than I am doing, but let us proceed in the grace of our teachers and the Holy Tradition. Moving on to Part Three of the Kena Upanishad, it is in this Part that my ‘Englishness’ is a veil which limits my understanding of the story of the Yaksha although it has long been one of my favourite teaching stories. I do not have the context of the devas that I would have gathered had I been brought up with the stories and traditions of India. Also my interest is in the pure, unlimited fullness of consciousness rather than the superimpositions that produce forms at various levels. So my interpretation of this story is going to be lacking in the richness which I am sure is there for someone living from birth within the context of the Indian spiritual traditions. I am sorry for this lack and I hope that someone will join in and bring out the subtle flavours of the text. Remember that the essence of the Upanishad is to direct the pupil to the knowledge of brahman and it begins by questioning the understanding we have of who is the prime mover of our actions. We are convinced that we are the ‘doer’ and plan our lives accordingly. This is ignorance and will lead to the never-ending cycle of pleasure and pain. The secret, the hidden secret as it is called, of life is to discover how to stand back and let the flow of life take place without attachment based in the false notions arising from the ahaMkAra or ego as it is mistakenly called. Let us use an example from nature: lightning passes through a metal conductor to the ground where is dissipates, its task fulfilled, the conductor is unharmed and is unaffected by the passage of such a huge power. So we call it a ‘good’ conductor. Now if the lightning passes through a ‘bad’ conductor such as wood then the tree is destroyed. That is the import of the last verse of Part Two which states: ‘If he does not know It there is great destruction.’ May I just make a brief sidetrack here: When we talk of destruction a Western mind will think of childhood tales of fiery furnaces and Hell, the Semitic religions have much to say on this However you may find that an etymological study of ‘Hell’ will show that it comes from the same root as words like ‘shelter’ and means a covering. This covering is ignorance or the vasanas and it is these that are destroyed; Atman cannot be destroyed so realize Atman now. That is the import of the verse. You may ask, “How can I destroy these vasanas?” So the Kena replies: 1. It was Brahman, indeed, that achieved victory for the sake of the gods. In that victory, that was in fact Brahman’s, the gods became elated. We may refer to the story of the battle between the gods and the demons that enabled the gods to flourish for the service of world but I will take it that the story echoes Verse One, Part One and challenges our idea that ‘I am the doer.’ Let us use another image: the computer on my lap is disinterestedly performing a function at this moment but its power is the flow of electricity without which it cannot operate; each part has its function that it must play perfectly or the whole system will crash or be diminished by poor parts. Similarly, I ( this complex of intellect and memory and senses etc.) am typing words as they appear out of the flow in consciousness, this flow is limited by the imperfect parts but the flow originates in your question, and from whence was that flow begun? It was brahman but if we claim the cleverness of our questions and answers then we will become elated like the gods. As this elation is not the purpose of the inspiration there has to arise a mechanism for correcting the fault and this is grace and through grace a Yaksha appears…..when the pupil is ready the guru appears. 2. They thought, “Ours, indeed, is this victory; ours, indeed is this glory.” Brahman knew this pretension of theirs. To them he did appear. They could not make out about that thing, as to what this Yaksha (venerable Being) might be. Through forgetting that they are Self, not the perceived modifications of Self, the gods only perceive something ‘other’. How this ignorance comes into the play is a matter for another discussion but we can recognize the situation in our own lives. 3. They said to Fire, “O Jataveda, find out thoroughly about this thing as to what this Yaksha is.” He said, “So be it.” Agni or jAtAveda is known as fire because it is fire that is the closest element to the sacrifice and so is of greatest importance. This proximity to the sacrifice also is demonstrated by the etymology of the name jAtAveda which shows that he is almost omniscient, limited only by function. Hence he is a worthy ambassador of the gods. 4. To It he went. To him It said, “Who are you?” He said, “I am known as Fire, or I am Jataveda.” 5. It said, “What power is in you, such as you are?” Fire said, “I can burn up all this on the earth.” 6. (Yaksha) placed a straw for him saying, “Burn this.” (Fire) approached the straw with the power born of full enthusiasm. He could not consume it. He returned from the Yaksha ( to tell the gods), “I could not ascertain It fully as to what the Yaksha is.” TR^inam, the straw, means the slightest, most tiny thing possible. We may get the word ‘trifle’ from this root. Now agni makes his mistake upon being asked what ‘power’ is in you, he claims the function of the ‘burner’. So he fails because the knowledge of how burn is not his. The knowledge will act through him but in that moment the knowledge is not available….the power of the powerful is absent. He is ‘full of enthusiasm’ as he approaches the straw…sarvajavena, which has the meaning of speedy movement and conquering within the ‘vena’. Western popular psychology in recent years has concentrated upon building up ‘self-esteem’ and ‘self-worth’ and advised looking in a mirror and saying such things as, ‘ I am a great salesman’ and then going out and really ‘Socking it to them’ to demonstrate our powers. Such an effort will not move the smallest blade of grass in the real world although it may appear successful in the world of shadows. Better to look in the mirror of the pure intellect and ask, ‘Who am I?’ and then practise the use of the mahAvAkyas and the Kena Upanishad. 7. Then the gods said to Air, “O Air, find out thoroughly about this thing as to what the Yaksha is.” Air said, “So be it.” 8. To It he went. To him It said, “Who are you?” He said, “I am known as Air, or I am Matarisva.” 9. It said, “What power is in you, such as you are?” Fire said, “I can blow away all this on the earth.” 10. (Yaksha) placed a straw for him saying, “Take it up.” Air approached the straw with the power born of full enthusiasm. He could not take it up. He returned from the Yaksha ( to tell the gods), “I could not ascertain It fully as to what the Yaksha is.” Air as vAyu and mAtarishva has the meaning of ‘going’ and ‘carrier of smell’. It carries the sweetness of the sacrifice and so also has great importance….remember that the earlier portions before the Kena begins are to do with rites and mantras etc. The same sequence of events occurs with the same gross energy being applied to a subtle task. Failure results and diminished, air reports back. 11. Then the gods said Indra, “O Maghava, find out thoroughly about this thing, as to what this Yaksha is.” He said, “So be it.” He ( Indra) approached It (Yaksha). From him (Yaksha) vanished away. 12. In that very space he approached the superbly charming woman viz. Uma Haimavati. To Her ( he said), “What is this Yaksha?” Now the Lord of the senses, indra, is sent to solve the problem as his lesser companions have failed. Commentators say that it is because of his great pride at being ‘the boss’ that the yaksha vanishes. In a family, for example, the head of the household may claim the power of such a function and become a bully rather than a servant of the family, the same in businesses also. With this function as the ‘head’ there is also the potential to have the knowledge of true leadership. The first step is to give the claim to the function and then to be still, as still as Arjuna at the feet of Krishna in Chapter Two of the Gita. Now there is very great teaching in these verses. Shiva does not manifest power, that is the role of his consort Shakti, she is the power of the powerful, the feminine aspect in creation. Shiva and Shakti are inseparable. Believing himself to be separate from Self (brahman), indra approaches. Because of his self-importance……..personally I have my doubts about this interpretation by all the commentators that I have read, yes it has a part in the events but I feel that something about the function of indra is being missed in such an interpretation….the yaksha disappears. Can I give a personal example. As a sportsman I have enjoyed the applause of a crowd and my team-mates after a brilliant catch…for example. However, it is obvious to any sportsman who is honest that he/she did not do the action. Imagine the amazing calculations of complex physics necessary to complete such an action in fraction of a second. Once a serious road accident smashed my shoulder, eventually I returned to the cricket field and stood in the customary place close to the batsman. At first the catches would be missed and fingers bruised as the arm was now shorter than it had been. But gradually the catches began to go into the palm of the hand once more. The arm was still shorter than it had been. I had played no part but one in the body and mind achieving this…..the part was to go back into the same place as before. The applause was once more heard but now there was no attachment and no thrill of excitement. Yes, there was a thrill but it had a different quality. Now this is similar to the metaphor in this verse in the Kena Upanishad. Indra goes to ‘that very place’ …..tasmin eva AkAshe….where the yaksha disappeared. Then he becomes quiet. Unlike the others he does not shrug his shoulders and turn away and go back to his mates. He is intrigued and wants to ‘know’. Now we are still using the word ‘approached’ but note the change from the previous ‘adrAvat’ to ‘AjagAma’ in this verse. If we too are puzzled as to the source of our actions, to the amazing power that is there, having given up any claim to the ownership of that power we approach its centre and sit, in meditation as it were. For Indra the superbly beautiful and charming….bahushobhamAnam…..daughter of the HimAlayas………haimavatIm……. appears. This is Shakti, ever in the presence of Shiva and manifesting his power through knowledge, wisdom. Now Indra, just as we must do, must pose a question to that beautiful and most gracious mother, ‘What is this Yaksha?’ And so we can move on to Part Four tomorrow if that is what is to be. Peace and happiness Ken Knight - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 :In his introductory note on Kenopanishad, Swami Sharvanaanda of Shri Ramakrishna Math has stated as follows: Like the Isavasyaopanishad the kaenopanishad too derives its name from the first word of its opening verse,namely, 'Kena'. It is also called Talavakaropanishad, as it forms, according to Sankara and other commentators, the ninth chapter of Talavakara or Jaimini Brahmana. He comments at the end of Part One as follows: As a general remark on this whole Part, it may be mentioned that our thought is herein directed towards the Atman in two ways:(1)by pointing out the Atman as the concious entity from which all our organs receive their intelligaence and capacity to function in their respective ways; and (2) by directing us to the Atman as the seer, the witness,of all the functionns of the mind and the senses. Both these are ultimartely identical,but it is worthwhile to note the difference in emphasis between them. Hari Om! Swaminarayan Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.