Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 --- Kamal Kothari <kamal_kothari_india wrote: > > A wonderful book called "Choice Upanishads" by Swami > A. Parthasarathy is available. It has covered 4 > Upanishads including Kena. Available at all major > bookshops in India Namaste Kamal, Having spent four evenings with the Swamiji this week, at his London lecture, I was left with a mixed response to his style of teaching. He seems overly critical, unnecessarily so in relation to Tamils, and can spend too much time haranguing the audience, criticising people he has met and encouraging what we may call 'cheap laughter' at the limitations of people not present. He was caught out quite beautifully for on the third night, he spent some ten minutes haranguing a number of people who arrived late, "Indians across the world are always late," he protested while they blamed delayed trains. On the last night he himself was five minutes late; 'the traffic was congested.' So the gods arranged for the biter to be bitten. His lectures were very good inasmuch as they kept to the text....in this case Bhagavad Gita chapter three....so were greatly valued by us, but his wish to promote his books throughout the lecture was unwelcome. The display of his books was a sufficient promotion but he clearly is a forceful man and subtlety is not his main concern. This he made clear himself. His concern with the need for young adults to hear the teachings of Vedanta is to be praised and I willingly contributed to his institute in India but I will wait for my next visit to India to buy the books as they are expensive in England. Therefore I look forward to hearing from you if you can pick out special points of interest from Swamiji's commentary on the Kena Upanishad Happy study Ken Knight - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 In a message dated 6/30/2002 6:52:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kamal_kothari_india writes: > "Dont mix up the life and the > teachings of the prophet". Absolutely. To know and to realize that all masters, gurus, prophets, whatever be their names from any tradition, are first and foremost, humans with various levels of 'imperfections' from some point of view or other, the better off we will be in our own growth patterns. To insist on making them 'perfect' is to further distance ourselves from their idealized behavior and thought patterns. Thus, once again, making us individually the greater sinner, bounded at some level of advidya through repetition of such influences, to remain further away from the truth. Rather we can just simply superimpose ourselves over the qualities of the appreciated guru and become one and the same with them, all the while feeling free to superimpose in a similar way among a number of different gurus, even from different traditions. We can catch the goodness as might be instantaneously perceived by ourselves among many of the great prophets. jai guru dev, Edmond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 Pranaam Ken, I entirely agree with your views and assessment of Swami Parthasarathy. He does tend to be arrogant and self centred in his attitude....also overly critical about India and Indians. That's probably a hangover of his student days in England during the colonial days. What I have done is taken his teachings and his personality as 2 different aspects completely. I was studying his book "Vedanta Treatise" in which he himself has advocated "Dont mix up the life and the teachings of the prophet". I have done exactly that and anly taken the nectar of his teachings. I do not wish to know him personally or closely because I had a very similar view as yours on the very first day that I met him....and met him just once. As for the book, its available in India for about Rs. 350/- or so. It may also be available in London at some student's place. Best regards, Kamal ______________________ Everything you always wanted to know about cars and bikes,now at: http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 > Message: 3 > Sun, 30 Jun 2002 07:36:46 EDT > edmeasure > Re: Re: [Kena Upanishad/SwamiParthasarathy> > Absolutely. To know and to realize that all > masters, gurus, prophets, > whatever be their names from any tradition, are > first and foremost, humans Pranaam Ken, Thanks for your sharing thoughts. Regards, Kamal > Message: 5 > Sun, 30 Jun 2002 12:05:02 -0000 > "viorica_weissman" <viorica > Re: [Kena Upanishad/Swami Parthasarathy > dear Kamal, > > ............ > >> What I have done is taken his teachings and his > > personality as 2 different aspects completely. I > was > > studying his book "Vedanta Treatise" in which he > > himself has advocated "Dont mix up the life and > the > > teachings of the prophet". > > > Ramana Maharshi's life and teachings are one and > the same. > Is there one single detail of his life that is not > his > teachings ? So it is possible for the life and the > teachings > of the prophet to be one; > Pranaam Vicki, Ken has put up an excellent post on the subject to my earlier mail. It says it all. My point is that we did not know Einstein, Curie, and others like them personally, did we? But their theories hold in spite of that. So essentially we have taken the 'nectar' of their teachings and applied them in our lives. Thats all.....its better to stay away from Individuals and institutions in the course of our study of eternal truths. I consider all these as just a means to an end....not the end. Wonder if I have been able to correctly communicate my thoughts. Best regards, Kamal ===== Kamal KothariMumbai, India"If anyhting needs to be done at all, it needs to be done well" ______________________ Everything you always wanted to know about cars and bikes,now at: http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2002 Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 Namaste Vickiji: Your points are well taken. Sri Kamal's comments regarding Swami Parthasarathy did not focus on exceptional spiritual masters such as Sri Ramana, Jesus, Buddha, etc. Specifically Ramana Maharishi is quite exceptional and it is possible for many to imitate but those imitators can't become a Maharishi. Ramana never formally learnt the scriptures, nor he went to through a process of spiritual sadhana similar to the one followed in Sankara Mutts (instituted by Sankaracharya). Most important, that he doesn't need to go through such a process. Most of us (almost all in this list) can't become a Ramana Maharishi instantneously. As you rightly pointed out in number of your posts, the process of becoming a Ramana Maharishi require serious, determined and disciplined 'self-enquiry,' which can help one to jump from 'intellectual understanding' to 'true divine experience.' Many of the modern time Vedantic teachers such as Swami Parthasarathy can't be compared to Sri Ramana Maharishi (this does not preclude me in declaring as a great vedantin and teacher of Gita and Upanishads). The spiritual being can be at different levels and until we reached the level of Sri Ramana, we have to admit (our arrogance may not like the fact) that we are just human beings. Honestly, Swami Parthasarathy has not reached the stage of Ramana and consequently he endowed with heavy load of human arrogance. This may explain why he is very critical of his audience (disservice to his beloved customers), critical of India (dissservice to the cause of his scholarship and critical of his fellow citizens of India. He is human is the only reasonable explanation that fully explains his pitfalls, Finally, I want express my sincere thanks for posting so many nice articles on Ramana and I grateful to you for your unselfish service. warmest regards, Ram Chandran Note: I have personally attended many of his Gita discourses during his several visits to USA and he seems to be expressing the same temper-tantrum that he showed more than a decade ago! advaitin, "viorica_weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > dear Kamal, > > I am not sure I understand you correctly; > You talk about scientists, i was talking about > Self-realized teachers ; the truths in science > form the domain of science, but this list as > I understand it is dedicated to the one absolute truth , > so if we want absolute truth we don't learn scientific > theories , but we can learn from those whose life > and teaching are one, like Ramana Maharshi,Jesus, > Buddha..and who point to the one absolute truth > of human existence. > If one reaches this teachings during one's lifetime, > what a waste of time to ignore them , > > vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 In a message dated 7/2/2002 12:19:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, srikrishna_ghadiyaram writes: > While this argument might appeal to many people in the beginning > stages of life, it is not tenable. > > Is it not foolish to think that the 'Guru' is human, but the disciple > is SpuerHuman ???? (can be inhuman !!) > > You may accept this statement with regards to ordinary Sanyasis who > have not realised their true nature, and are expounding Upanishads as > part of their Sadhana, but not with realised masters and who are > established in Truth. I truly feel that we are pursuing a play on words here, nothing more. We are really saying much the same thing. Call it human; call it superhuman; call it god; call it anything, but the fact remains that an entity is still tied to a body so long as it remains embodied. Here in this body, no matter which one of the titles has been used to 'classify' a personality, the body still has long habituated responses -- Pavlov responses if you will -- as following in the foot steps of my father or my guru or whomever. Fro instance, some folks, almost since the day they were born, are perpetually late, always late, no matter what. So be it. This is ingrained habituation from the environment somewhere. Hard to break the pattern, even if one wants to break the pattern. It's the elements of hypnotic trance that the particulars of any culture pass on to the children. Something is always passed on and we may associate with that 'something' a pleasing thought or a disturbed thought, depending on the details of the affectations of our own cultural hypnotic habituation. This same thing is true for that one who might be referenced as an 'ordinary' sanyasi or to that one who is thought to be 'enlightened'. And this is not only seen to be the case, but there are arguments that it must be the case -- the principle of leshâvidya -- that requirement that 'a little ignorance' stay close at hand to allow the purusa to stick close to the sarira, otherwise the soul is said to be ready to flee away from the body at any given first chance. The habituated manifestations of the physical body thus do hang around mostly for a lifetime. Perhaps the modern biologists would call it due to DNA -- same thing, for what is it that codes incoming DNA to start with? We appreciate one personality or another personality, more or less, according to how close their habituation fall in line with our own habituation. In the extremes, the tone and texture of verbalizations may be sweet honey for one and bitter enmity for another. The slightest little thing instantaneously sets our thought patterns about another -- first impressions and all that -- perhaps the logical inconsistency of a word or perhaps the verbal sounding of the speech itself -- both are interactive. However, regardless of the degree of appreciation of the subtle aspects of creation, if the man has long been habituated to tardiness from early youth, then chances are, he will continue to be late. So what. We will either completely overlook it, hardly seeing it at all, if we are infatuated with the flow of knowledge from the fellow, or we might even yell and scream, finding it intolerable, if we are not much in step with the developing flow of knowledge. Any little thing might affect the flow to disturb a listener when the listener is unsympathetic to the content of the flow. The easiest thing is to pick up on some seeming little idiosyncrasy with respect to perfected ideal behavior; later we might prefer to dig in further to find the more subtle reasons for this certain degree of uneasiness that is disturbing. jai guru dev, Edmond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 --- ramvchandran <rchandran wrote: Namaste all on this thread, I was surprised that this side topic stirred such useful comments.Putting this particular swami to one side there are some general comments. Firstly, once we are brought to this path of self/Self enquiry the process of cause and effect speeds up. This was demonstrated when Swamiji criticised his audience for being late then was late himself the next night. This is what happens. I believe that this happens through grace: we do not have to wait lifetimes for the effect of our actions to come to fruition but they come back very quickly to us for correct action. It seems as though teachers/teachings have precise sections of the community in their focus. They themselves are part of the play on that particular stage at that particular time. While the Hare Krishna and Divine Light people of the 70s were aiming at the 'streets' there was Krishnamurti striking at the more 'secure' and MMY at yet another group. As with any chemical reaction the right elements have to be in place so it seems to be with social activities. Each has to play his/her part as though 'mounted on a wheel'. Such as Ramana may be beyond this, I do not know. Finally, if Swami Parthasarathy passes by your way I would recommend that you hear him as he keeps to the texts and the waffle part that intrudes from time to time can easily be allowed to pass on its way, Happy meetings Ken Knight Sign up for SBC Dial - First Month Free http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 Hari Om !! advaitin, edmeasure@a... wrote: > In a message dated 6/30/2002 6:52:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > kamal_kothari_india writes: > > > > "Dont mix up the life and the > > teachings of the prophet". > > Absolutely. To know and to realize that all masters, gurus, prophets, > whatever be their names from any tradition, are first and foremost, humans > with various levels of 'imperfections' from some point of view or other, the > better off we will be in our own growth patterns. While this argument might appeal to many people in the beginning stages of life, it is not tenable. Is it not foolish to think that the 'Guru' is human, but the disciple is SpuerHuman ???? (can be inhuman !!) You may accept this statement with regards to ordinary Sanyasis who have not realised their true nature, and are expounding Upanishads as part of their Sadhana, but not with realised masters and who are established in Truth. Also, we should see the life of these prophets and Guru's after their enlightenment, not from their purva-ashrama. That is why we are not encouraged to know their past history, as long as our hearts can not understand divinity in all beings. In the absence of such higher inspiration, what will the Sishya do ? The doubts of imperfection will always be superimposed on the 'realized' master and the true implications of the teaching is lost. The guru will not lose any thing, but the Sishya will be lost in own ignorance. Whatever may be the exhibited qualities of the physical form of the teacher, one should not pay any attention to those aspects, and just be busy imbibing the teaching. Each Guru is open to give what he/she has, to a true seeker of His/Her goods. It is just upto the Sishya to accept whatever he/she can and move on to the next stage until one finds satisfaction of the soul. Om Namo Narayanaya !! Srikrishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 --- viorica weissman <viorica wrote: > dear Ram, > thank you for your very kind letter ; > I am glad that this is a list on which postings with > Sri Ramana's teaching are welcomed, > thank you , > vicki > Vicki - we adore Bhagavaan Ramana and his teachings. You are absolutely right that teaching is not only by word of mouth or text but by way of ones life itself. Bhagavaan Ramana wrote little but whatever he wrote is out of his profound experince. I am not sure if Swami title is appropriate for Shreemaan Parthasarathi - Generally it is used extensively for those who have taken atleast physical sanyaasa. Parthasarathi, I donot think comes under that category. Hari OM! Sadananda Sign up for SBC Dial - First Month Free http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 ramvchandran <rchandran wrote: Namaste Vickiji: He is human is the only reasonable explanation that fully explains his pitfalls, ---------------------- Though I have not attended any lectures of Swami Parthasarathy, I happened to attend the first intoductory class on Gita conducted by his dughter,who is also renowned for her lectures on Gita in India. The first thing that made me decide not to continue attending the classes was the way in which this Daughter-Deciple of Swami Parthasarathi was promoting the sale of her daddy's book to the audience! Hari Om! Swaminarayan New! SBC Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 Hi! Why is there a surprise for such a behavior? It is very easy to talk and lecture on Gita, but to live the Gita is infinitely more difficult. The word Swamy or Paramahamsa attached to the name does not make one the live the life of Gita! -- Vis - "Swaminarayan T" <tvswaminarayan <advaitin> Friday, July 05, 2002 11:47 PM Re: Re: [Kena Upanishad/Swami Parthasarathy > > > ramvchandran <rchandran wrote: > Namaste Vickiji: > > He is human > is the only reasonable explanation that fully explains his pitfalls, > > ---------------------- > > Though I have not attended any lectures of Swami Parthasarathy, I happened to attend the first intoductory class on Gita conducted by his dughter,who is also renowned for her lectures on Gita in India. The first thing that made me decide not to continue attending the classes was the way in which this Daughter-Deciple of Swami Parthasarathi was promoting the sale of her daddy's book to the audience! > > Hari Om! > > Swaminarayan > > > > > > New! SBC Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access > > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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