Arjuna - a jivanmukta?

[Guest guest]

Is it possible for a jivanmukta to backslide?

 

I am reminded about the story of Arjuna, who after having become

an "Enlightened One" in the Gita, he apparently became

"attached" and fell back under the sway of avidya according

to Krsna's statement in near end of the Mahabharata.

 

How is it possible for a jivanmukta to backslide? - explained in

terms of his karma?

 

Gracias.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "capanellius" <capanellius> wrote:

> Is it possible for a jivanmukta to backslide?

>

> I am reminded about the story of Arjuna, who after having become

> an "Enlightened One" in the Gita, he apparently became

> "attached" and fell back under the sway of avidya according

> to Krsna's statement in near end of the Mahabharata.

>

> How is it possible for a jivanmukta to backslide? - explained in

> terms of his karma?

>

> Gracias.

 

Namaste Capanelliusji

 

Who said that Arjuna became a jIvan-mukta at the end of the Gita-

teaching? He became probably intellectually convinced of Krishna's

argument and resumed his warrior-mood. But intellectual conviction

is not enough for slipping into the state of a jIvan-mukta. That is

the crucial issue of advaita.

Yours, profvk

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "profvk" <profvk> wrote:

>

> Who said that Arjuna became a jIvan-mukta at the end of the Gita-

> teaching? He became probably intellectually convinced of Krishna's

> argument and resumed his warrior-mood. But intellectual conviction

> is not enough for slipping into the state of a jIvan-mukta. That is

> the crucial issue of advaita.

> Yours, profvk

 

 

Well, that was an easy one!

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Two questions arise for me:

 

1. Could Capanelliusji kindly specify the reference to Arjuna

becoming a victim of 'avidya'?

 

2. In Gita, 18:73, when Arjuna says -

 

naShTo mohaH smR^itirlabdhA.....sthito.asmi gatasandehaH....

 

why should this be interpreted as 'intellectual conviction' only?

 

This is as clear a statement of 'mukti' as can be made.

 

In the 11th Chapter Arjuna had already seen the 'Vishvarupa', so

there is no question of his inability to discriminate between the

transient and the eternal.

 

Rama wept for Sita, Vasishtha wept for his sons, so did Vyasa when

Suka left home! Modern Saints and Rishis also display very human

emotions at the plight of the distressed. This cannot be taken as

a 'slipping back into avidya'. They are however fully aware of their

own immortal Self at all times.

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "capanellius" <capanellius> wrote:

> advaitin, "profvk" <profvk> wrote:

> >

> > Who said that Arjuna became a jIvan-mukta at the end of the Gita-

> > teaching? He became probably intellectually convinced of

Krishna's

> > argument and resumed his warrior-mood. But intellectual

conviction

> > is not enough for slipping into the state of a jIvan-mukta. That

is

> > the crucial issue of advaita.

> > Yours, profvk

>

>

> Well, that was an easy one!

>

> Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Your point of view, Sunderji, is most satisfying to me.

 

We have a tendency to conjure up a superhuman image when the word

jeevanmuktha is mentioned. But the fact is that there are many

jeevanmukthas around us going about their chores quite

unnoticed "undergoing the pangs and hardships of daily life"

seemingly like other ordinary folks. It is also not necessary that a

jeevanmuktha should be robed like a sanyasin or saint as we normally

expect him to be. He can as well be in the most expensive Western

attire running a business empire. It is his attitude to life that

marks him as a jeevanmuktha. Even if he turns a pauper overnight, he

would see the Lord in his mishap and accept his plight with utmost

prasadabuddhi and with a philosophical smile too as he definitely

fights his way back to regain the lost empire.

 

When Arjuna said "nashto moha", Lord Krishna closed shop and drove

the chariot right into the battlefield. There was no need for any

more of the talk that had extended into eighteen chapters by then,

which Bhagwan could have terminated right after Chapter II if Arjuna

had received the intended message. The fact that the Bhagwad Geetha

has no 19th Chapter is conclusive proof that Arjuna had become a

jeevanmuktha - that the message of the Book had sunk really deep into

him. That alone is important to a student of vedanta. If the story

narrates a "backslide", let us ignore it as we do with Uttara

Ramayana which many an expert feels was not penned by Valmiki. Or

let us at best see it as only a "superficially apparent backslide"

that did not vitiate Arjuna's advaitic stature and integrity. To

summarise, let us attach importance to the message and not to the

story.

 

Best regards.

 

Madathil Nair

 

__________________

 

advaitin, "sunderh" <sunderh> wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> Two questions arise for me:

>

> 1. Could Capanelliusji kindly specify the reference to Arjuna

> becoming a victim of 'avidya'?

>

> 2. In Gita, 18:73, when Arjuna says -

>

> naShTo mohaH smR^itirlabdhA.....sthito.asmi gatasandehaH....

>

> why should this be interpreted as 'intellectual conviction' only?

>

> This is as clear a statement of 'mukti' as can be made.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for pointing this out Sunderji. The highest advaitic

teaching indicates Self-Realization to be a state of Being.

 

This is supported both by the authority of scriptures as well as

sages such as Sri Ramana who told stories to illustrate this.

 

Also, Bhagavad Gita like other ancient scriptures can be viewed from

many different levels. For example, Mahatama Gandhi had a different

symbolic reading of it than many orthodox Hindus.

 

Love to all

Harsha

 

 

advaitin, "sunderh" <sunderh> wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> Two questions arise for me:

>

> 1. Could Capanelliusji kindly specify the reference to Arjuna

> becoming a victim of 'avidya'?

>

> 2. In Gita, 18:73, when Arjuna says -

>

> naShTo mohaH smR^itirlabdhA.....sthito.asmi gatasandehaH....

>

> why should this be interpreted as 'intellectual conviction' only?

>

> This is as clear a statement of 'mukti' as can be made.

>

> In the 11th Chapter Arjuna had already seen the 'Vishvarupa', so

> there is no question of his inability to discriminate between the

> transient and the eternal.

>

> Rama wept for Sita, Vasishtha wept for his sons, so did Vyasa when

> Suka left home! Modern Saints and Rishis also display very human

> emotions at the plight of the distressed. This cannot be taken as

> a 'slipping back into avidya'. They are however fully aware of their

> own immortal Self at all times.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Sri Ramakrishna used to give the example of one who dreamt about

being attacked by a tiger, and woke up with a start, then realised it

was a dream, but the heart kept pounding even though wide awake!

 

The traditional example is of the pot on the potter's wheel

which keeps turning even after the potter stops turning the wheel.

 

Thus the remnant effects, appearing like avidya, do not cancel

the knowledge of the individual.

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

advaitin, "harshaimtm" <harshaimtm> wrote:

 

The highest advaitic

> teaching indicates Self-Realization to be a state of Being.

>

> This is supported both by the authority of scriptures as well as

> sages such as Sri Ramana who told stories to illustrate this.

>

[Guest guest]

sunderji wrote:

>

Rama wept for Sita, Vasishtha wept for his sons, so

did Vyasa when Suka left home! Modern Saints and

Rishis also display very human emotions at the plight

of the distressed. This cannot be taken as a 'slipping

back into avidya'. They are however fully aware of

their

own immortal Self at all times.

>

 

Om shaanthi shaanthi shaanthiH!

 

namaskaar sunder-ji.

 

and as harsha-ji alluded to, i think it's imperative

for advaitins to not only read the teachings of

bhagavan ramana, but read about his life and times

also! this will unveil an insight to yet a deeper

aspect of the teaching.

 

OM ramanarpanamasthu!

 

 

 

Health - Feel better, live better

http://health.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "sunderh" <sunderh> wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> Two questions arise for me:

>

> 1. Could Capanelliusji kindly specify the reference to Arjuna

> becoming a victim of 'avidya'?

>

> Rama wept for Sita, Vasishtha wept for his sons, so did Vyasa when

> Suka left home! Modern Saints and Rishis also display very human

> emotions at the plight of the distressed. This cannot be taken as

> a 'slipping back into avidya'. They are however fully aware of their

> own immortal Self at all times.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Your reading of the Gita is in line with my own initial reading, but

differs from that of Provk and probably might with others as

mentioned already by one of the List members. In any case, the

question I posed may arise for anyone who would adopt your

interpretation, being "How is it possible for a jivanmukta to

backslide?"

 

Your reference to the above passage in the Mahabharta is not the one

I had in mind when I wrote of Krsna's statement "near the end

of the Mahabharta." My notes on this are incomplete and have not

been able as yet to run down the source for my reference in the

Mahabharta (after most of yesterday evening at the library trying to

track down the passage).

 

My notes indicate that Krsna specifically says that Arjuna forgot

what he had previously learned in the Gita and suffered from his

attachments in his later life. But in absence of not being able to

provide the specific reference, the burden of proof lies with me, and

you need not comment further on this, unless you chosse, or until I

can locate the reference.

 

But there still remains the further general question, namely, whether

it is possible for a jivanmukta to backslide? And if the answer is

yes, then how one might account for it in terms of the workings of

Karma.

 

Gracias.

[Guest guest]

First arjuna a jiivan mukta or not is mute question to

ask and answer. Does it really matter?

 

Second- can a jiivan mukta slide back - no - that is

the definition of mukta - yad gatva na nivartante

tadhaam paramama mama. once one has reached my abode

there is no more falling back.

 

Jiivan mukta means whose ignorance is gone. when one

has knowledge then one cannot become aj~naani again.

The individual 'ego' is no more. What is there is

equipments and Iswara makes use of the equipments

available for loka kalyaana. Hence we chant Guru

Brahma guru vishnu etc. Once one knows that it is

rope there is no more mistaken notion that rope is

snake again. Brahama vit Brahmaiva bhavati is the

shruti declaration. Knower of Brahman becomes

brahman. There is no question of Brahman becoming

jiiva again.

 

If one falls again then the very pursuit of moksha

becomes meaningless, since one can fall again at any

time.

 

Finally it is mute question since if one is jiivan

mukta he alone knows the truth of himself or oneself

since he alone is. There is no question of others

asking if someother is jiivan mukta. The question and

the answer has no validity. What I have provided is

only scriptural declaration not somebody's experience.

 

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

 

--- capanellius <capanellius wrote:

> But there still remains the further general

> question, namely, whether

> it is possible for a jivanmukta to backslide? And if

> the answer is

> yes, then how one might account for it in terms of

> the workings of

> Karma.

>

> Gracias.

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Health - Feel better, live better

http://health.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I think I know the reference:

 

Ashvamedhika Parva [#14 of 18 in Mahabharata] has two sections:

ashvamedha parva, and anugiitaa parva.

anugiitaa parva has 92 Chapters, of which #1-51 form the anugiitaa.

 

The 1st Chapter of anugiitaa has this episode, where Arjuna requests

Krishna to repeat the Gita he told him on the battlefield.

 

 

http://sanskrit.gde.to/mirrors/mahabharata/txt/14.txt

 

v

 

kR^iShNena sahitaH pArthaH svarAjyaM prApya kevalam .

tasyA.n sabhAyAM ramyAyAM vijahAra mudA yutaH .. 2..\\

tataH ka.n chitsabhoddesha.n svargoddesha samaM nR^ipa .

yadR^ichchhayA tau muditau jagmatuH svajanAvR^itau .. 3..\\

tataH pratItaH kR^iShNena sahitaH pANDavo.arjunaH .

nirIkShya tA.n sabhAM ramyAmidaM vachanamabravIt .. 4..\\

vidita.n te mahAbAho sa~NgrAme samupasthite .

mAhAtmya.n devakI mAtastachcha te rUpamaishvaram .. 5..\\

yattu tadbhavatA prokta.n tadA keshava sauhR^idAt .

tatsarvaM puruShavyAghra naShTaM me naShTachetasaH .. 6..\\

mama kautUhala.n tvasti teShvartheShu punaH prabho .

bhavAMshcha dvArakA.n gantA nachirAdiva mAdhava .. 7..\\

evamuktastataH kR^iShNaH phalgunaM pratyabhAShata .

pariShvajya mahAtejA vachana.n vadatAM varaH .. 8..\\

shrAvitastvaM mayA guhya.n GYApitashcha sanAtanam .

dharma.n svarUpiNaM pArtha sarvalokAMshcha shAshvatAn .. 9..\\

abuddhvA yanna gR^ihNIthAstanme sumahadapriyam .

nUnamashraddadhAno.asi durmedhAshchAsi pANDava .. 10..\\

sa hi dharmaH suparyApto brahmaNaH padavedane .

na shakya.n tanmayA bhUyastathA vaktumasheShataH .. 11..\\

para.n hi brahma kathitaM yogayuktena tanmayA .

itihAsa.n tu vakShyAmi tasminnarthe purAtanam .. 12..\\

yathA tAM buddhimAsthAya gatimagryA.n gamiShyasi .

shR^iNu dharmabhR^itA.n shreShTha gadataH sarvameva me .. 13..\\

AgachchhadbrAhmaNaH kashchitsvargalokAdarindama .

brahmalokAchcha durdharShaH so.asmAbhiH pUjito.abhavat .. 14..\\

asmAbhiH paripR^iShTashcha yadAha bharatarShabha .

divyena vidhinA pArtha tachchhR^iNuShvAvichArayan .. 15..\\

 

=====================================================================

 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe08/sbe0828.htm

 

Vaisampâyana said:

 

The son of Prithâ, after becoming possessed of his kingdom (in an)

undisturbed (state), enjoyed himself in the company of Krishna, full

of delight in that heavenly palace. And once, O king! they happened

to go, surrounded by their people, and rejoicing, to a certain

portion of the palace which resembled heaven. Then Arguna, the son of

Pându, having surveyed with delight that lovely palace, in the

company of Krishna, spoke these words: 'O you of mighty arms! O you

whose mother is Devakî 4! when the battle was about to commence, I

became aware of your greatness, and that divine

 

p. 230

 

form of yours 1. But that, O Kesava! which through affection (for

me) you explained before 2, has all disappeared, O tiger-like man!

from my degenerate mind. Again and again, however, I feel a curiosity

about those topics. But (now), O Mâdhava! you will be going at no

distant date to Dvârakâ.

 

Vaisampâyana said

 

Thus addressed, that best of speakers, Krishna, possessed of great

glory, replied in these words after embracing Arguna.

 

Vâsudeva said:

>From me, O son of Prithâ! you heard a mystery, and learnt about the

eternal 3 (principle), about piety in (its true) form, and about all

the everlasting worlds 4. It is excessively disagreeable to me, that

you should not have grasped it through want of intelligence. And the

recollection (of it) now again is not possible (to me). Really, O son

of Pându! you are devoid of faith and of a bad intellect. And, O

Dhanañgaya! it is not possible for me to repeat in full (what I said

before). For that doctrine was perfectly adequate for understanding

the seat, 5 of the Brahman. It is not possible for me to state it

again in full in that way. For then accompanied by my mystic power 6,

I declared to you the Supreme Brahman. But I shall relate an ancient

story upon

 

p. 231

 

that subject, so that adhering to this knowledge, you may attain the

highest goal.

===================================================================

 

The same question that you have raised was posed by Maj. Chadwick to

Sri Ramana. The answers are in the book 'Talks with Maharshi', pp 90-

91, 213 and 231.

 

Sri Ramakrishna, like Sri Ramana, used to say that practice is

necessary to keep the mind merged in the Self - 'like polishing the

copper vessel exposed to air, which otherwise would turn black!'

 

The Gita also has warnings in several places - 'even the wise can get

carried away like a wind-tossed ship'.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "capanellius" <capanellius> wrote:

reference to Arjuna

> > becoming a victim of 'avidya'?

> >

> > Your reference to the above passage in the Mahabharta is not the

one

> I had in mind when I wrote of Krsna's statement "near the end

> of the Mahabharta." My notes on this are incomplete and have not

> been able as yet to run down the source for my reference in the

> Mahabharta (after most of yesterday evening at the library trying

to

> track down the passage).

>

[Guest guest]

Hari Om !!

 

Obviously, Arjuna was not a "Realised" person. We can have a small

reference from Swargaarohana parva, end of which Dharmaraja sees his

brothers being in hell on his way to heaven.

 

As we all know heaven and hell are not applicable for Realised souls.

 

Om Namo Narayanaya !!

 

Srikrishna

 

advaitin, "sunderh" <sunderh> wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> Two questions arise for me:

>

> 1. Could Capanelliusji kindly specify the reference to Arjuna

> becoming a victim of 'avidya'?

>

> 2. In Gita, 18:73, when Arjuna says -

>

> naShTo mohaH smR^itirlabdhA.....sthito.asmi gatasandehaH....

>

> why should this be interpreted as 'intellectual conviction' only?

>

> This is as clear a statement of 'mukti' as can be made.

>

> In the 11th Chapter Arjuna had already seen the 'Vishvarupa', so

> there is no question of his inability to discriminate between the

> transient and the eternal.

>

> Rama wept for Sita, Vasishtha wept for his sons, so did Vyasa when

> Suka left home! Modern Saints and Rishis also display very human

> emotions at the plight of the distressed. This cannot be taken as

> a 'slipping back into avidya'. They are however fully aware of their

> own immortal Self at all times.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

>

>

>

>

> advaitin, "capanellius" <capanellius> wrote:

> > advaitin, "profvk" <profvk> wrote:

> > >

> > > Who said that Arjuna became a jIvan-mukta at the end of the

Gita-

> > > teaching? He became probably intellectually convinced of

> Krishna's

> > > argument and resumed his warrior-mood. But intellectual

> conviction

> > > is not enough for slipping into the state of a jIvan-mukta.

That

> is

> > > the crucial issue of advaita.

> > > Yours, profvk

> >

> >

> > Well, that was an easy one!

> >

> > Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Srikrishna-ji,

 

Not as obvious as you imply!

 

The question is about Arjuna being enlightened, not Dharmaraja!

For an enlightened one, Heaven and Hell are part of the Vishvarupa,

in the Chidakasha, for which Arjuna had been granted the grace of

Divine Vision (Divya Chakshu), which he was not able to sustain for

too long.

 

That is the advaitic view. Shankara bhashya on Brahma-sutras

has reference to heaven in several places.

 

Kama, Krodha, Lobha {Lust, Anger, and Greed] are the doors to

hell, says the Gita; and Karma Kanda rituals are the means to Heaven.

 

For an enlightened one, there is no 'going to or coming from'

anywhere. The crests and troughs of the waves are the same ocean.

 

Does the Svargaarohana Parva mention Arjuna seeing the same

what Dharmaraja saw?

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

advaitin, "srikrishna_ghadiyaram"

<srikrishna_ghadiyaram> wrote:

> Hari Om !!

>

> Obviously, Arjuna was not a "Realised" person. We can have a small

> reference from Swargaarohana parva, end of which Dharmaraja sees

his

> brothers being in hell on his way to heaven.

>

> As we all know heaven and hell are not applicable for Realised

souls.

>

> Om Namo Narayanaya !!

>

> Srikrishna

>

> advaitin, "sunderh" <sunderh> wrote:

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Two questions arise for me:

> >

> > 1. Could Capanelliusji kindly specify the reference to Arjuna

> > becoming a victim of 'avidya'?

> >

> >

> > In the 11th Chapter Arjuna had already seen the 'Vishvarupa', so

> > there is no question of his inability to discriminate between the

> > transient and the eternal.

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

As Sadaji rightly pointed out, our discussion on the qualifications

and characteristics of a Jivamukta is only speculative. Jivas use

their imagination and incomplete knowledge to project their

perception of a Jivamukta. The saying, 'Only Brahman the Brahman' is

quite right and only Jivamukta knows His own characteristics. Since

our imagination has no limits, our perceptions vary and consequently

we are unlikely to agree whether a specific person is a 'jivamukta.'

 

In mathematics, as an alternative to deal with 'infinity' or 'zero',

limit theorems are used to make inferences. Numbers very close to

zero or infinity are used to compute the algebraic solutions and

allow the closeness slowly reaching to the supremum level. If we use

a similar technique, we may be able to appreciate and

accept 'Jivamuktas' more readily than other wise. In Gita, the three

gunas - tamas, rajas and satvik are discussed in great details. As a

minimum, a Jivamukta is likely Satvik almost all the time!

 

Already I have said more than I am qualified to say and let me stop

here!

 

warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "sunderh" <sunderh> wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> I think I know the reference:

>

> Vaisampâyana said:

>

> Thus addressed, that best of speakers, Krishna, possessed of great

> glory, replied in these words after embracing Arguna.

>

> Vâsudeva said:

>

> From me, O son of Prithâ! you heard a mystery, learnt about the

> eternal (principle), about piety in (its true) form, and about all

> the everlasting worlds. It is excessively disagreeable to me, that

> you should not have grasped it through want of intelligence. And the

> recollection (of it) now again is not possible (to me). Really, O n

> son of Pându! you are devoid of faith and of a bad intellect.

> Dhanañgaya! its not possible for me to repeat in full (what I

said

> before). For that doctrine was perfectly adequate for understanding

> the seat, of the Brahman. It is not possible for me to state it

> again in full in that way. For then accompanied by my mystic power

> I declared to you the Supreme Brahman. But I shall relate an ancient

> story upon that subject, so that adhering to this knowledge, you

> may attain the highest goal.

> The same question that you have raised was posed by Maj. Chadwick

>to Sri Ramana. The answers are in the book 'Talks with Maharshi', pp

>90-> 91, 213 and 231.

>

> Sri Ramakrishna, like Sri Ramana, used to say that practice is

> necessary to keep the mind merged in the Self - 'like polishing the

> copper vessel exposed to air, which otherwise would turn black!'

>

> The Gita also has warnings in several places - 'even the wise can

> get carried away like a wind-tossed ship'.

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

 

Namaste,

 

That was very impressive research. Thanks for the reference.

 

According to my understanding of Shankara's position regarding

the karmic status of the jivanmukta that might explain Arjuna's

"lapse," and assuming that Arjuna attained the status of a

jivanmukta in the Gita, is that the "realization of Brahman"

destroys

all thosepast karmas (i.e., samskaras) that have not yet begun to

produce effects, but not those that have already ripened (i.e.,

prarabdha-karmas) and producing effects in the current life (ref

note: BSSG 4.1.19). Any clarifications on this statement are welcome.

 

I would also agree with Sri Ramakrishna's statement above and

recall the passage in the Gita where Arjuna says (S. Chidbhavanada,

Chap. 18:73):

 

"My delusion is destroyed. I have regained my memory through your

grace, O Achyuta. I am firm; I free from doubt. I shall act according

to your Word."

 

To which the commentator adds a few lines from Sri Ramakrishna:

 

"The tadpole can live both in water and on land after it sheds

its tail. The tail of ignorance drops off from man when he gets

enlightened in Brahma juana. He then becomes a jivanmukta - a

liberated soul. He simultaneously lives in the world and rests in

Brahman."

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "capanellius" <capanellius> wrote:

> ---> According to my understanding of Shankara's position regarding

> the karmic status of the jivanmukta that might explain Arjuna's

> "lapse," and assuming that Arjuna attained the status of a

> jivanmukta in the Gita, is that the "realization of Brahman"

> destroys

> all thosepast karmas (i.e., samskaras) that have not yet begun to

> produce effects, but not those that have already ripened (i.e.,

> prarabdha-karmas) and producing effects in the current life (ref

> note: BSSG 4.1.19). Any clarifications on this statement are

welcome.

 

Namaste,

 

In the forthcoming series of Gita Satsang and translation

postings, there will be plenty of opportunities to discuss this issue.

 

In the Archives you may wish to read the series of postings

from #7505 onwards [Jan. 2001 - ] related to this subject also

(titled Ranade - cogiataions - antinomies i the Gita).

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "sunderh" <sunderh> wrote:

> For an enlightened one, there is no 'going to or coming

from'

> anywhere. The crests and troughs of the waves are the same ocean.

>

 

Beautiful!

 

:-)

[Guest guest]

Pranaam,

 

Sorry for yet another posting on this subject. I had to do some

contemplation, soul searching and some book-searching, as it were, on

this topic because in spite of some wonderful posts I was still

confused whether Arjuna would fall in the category of Jivanmukta.

 

Our traditional belief is that at the beginning of the Gita in Ch 1

Arjuna is despondent and helpless but towards the end of the Ch 18 he

has transformed himself completely and has "realised" his Self. Also

the general belief is that Krishna would not have let Arjuna off had

he (Krishna) not been convinced of his liberation. All these thoughts

were churning about in my mind and I finally found a book which to

some extent has answered, at least to me, that yes, Arjuna was indeed

a Jivanmukta. I am referring to a wonderful work "Vedantasara of

Sadananda" translated by Swami Nikhilanada.

 

In Chapter 6, Verse No. 217 he says (and I quote) :

 

"A Jivanmukta is one who by the knowledge of the Absolute Brahman,

his own Self, has dispelled the ignorance regarding It and has

realised It, and who owing to the destruction of ignorance and its

effects such as accumulated past actions, doubts, errors, etc. is

free from all bondage and is established in Brahman."

 

I suppose, by inference, we can all agree that Arjuna would fit every

qualification in this definition.

 

Best regards,

 

Kamal