New Member Introduction: Welcome to Sri John Logan

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

Let us welcome Sri John Logan, a new member to the

list. We can look forward to his active participation

with his thoughtful insights.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Advaitin List Moderators.

 

--- John Logan <johnrloganis wrote:

> My name is John L. (to distinguish me from others

> named John). I am in my later years, recovering from

> throat cancer (3 years without any signs of

> recurrence).

>

> I have long been a student of comparative religion,

> practicing from the inside of the religions studied.

> The religions with which I am most comfortable are

> philosophical Taoism, Buddhism and finally Advaita.

>

> I have been currently practicing Self-Enquiry,

> following Ramana Maharshi, as well as studying his

> writings, the writings of J. Krishnamurti, the Ribhu

> Gita (Sanskrit translation), with a long foundation

> in

> the practice of Raja Yoga (following the Yoga Sutras

> of Patanjali). I am also working my way slowly

> through

> the book THE TRUTH IS by Sri Poonja, and the Swami

> Venkatesananda translation of the VASISTHA'S YOGA.

> Many years ago I spent time with the

> Self-Realization

> Fellowship in San Diego and the Vedanta Society in

> the

> Los Angeles area. The writings of Willim Samuel has

> led me in the current direction.

>

> The two books which have been of the most benefit to

> me in my present state are Hermann Hesse, SIDDARTHA

> and J. Allen Boone, KINSHIP WITH ALL LIFE.

>

> My experience with cancer and recovery has led me

> deeper into personal practice -- and the decision to

> stay "out of the box". I do not join well, I find

> organizations confining and inherently dualistic.

>

> I am currently living in the Phoenix AZ area.

>

> My favorite form of meditation is "watching the

> grass

> grow"...until there is no awareness of self, just

> attention to what is.

>

> I look forward to sharing.

>

> Namaste,

> John L.

>

> =====

> From John Logan

> email: johnrloganis

azfarmersmarkets

spiritualfriends

 

 

=====

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[Guest guest]

>

> --- John Logan <johnrloganis wrote:

> > My experience with cancer and recovery has led me

> > deeper into personal practice -- and the decision

> to

> > stay "out of the box".

 

Namaste John L.

 

Welcome to both clubs, advaitin and cancer....mine is

the bowel with six 'cut and slash' sessions in the

last two years. The gods were 'having a laugh' and

making me stop what I liked doing (teaching) and

setting up other schemes to occupy the time.

Ramakrishna tells the story of the times when God

laughs: When the doctor tells the desperate mother

that he knows what is wrong with her son and once more

when he says that he will cure the boy.

It is all grace.

You will probably have discovered that the illness of

the body is a positive opportunity...OK, I agree that

all the medical bit can be a problem inasmuch as we

have to allow the body time to heal and dispose of

anaesthetics etc.......for we can watch the passing

show more easily when not attached so severely to

those activities we usually call 'my life'.

Enjoy the site, join in. There are plenty of wise

hearts and intellects on this site to put us right if

we are talking nonsense,

 

May you enjoy good health in body and intellect,

 

Ken Knight

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Kenji.

 

Permit me to quote and translate (free) from a poem by renowned

Malayalam poetess, Late Balamani Amma. It was published when her

daughter Kamala Das (Malayalam writer and English writer/poetess) was

convalescing in a Calcutta hospital:

 

Worry not much, daughter,

For illness is a bed for rest,

Gifted us by the creative urge,

When we scamper, tire and moan.

 

About your quotes from Rumi, I have a request for your

consideration. Kindly provide translation for the Arabic words. I

have no problem personally as I can understand Arabic; it may be

helpful to other members to understand the verses better.

 

In a recent chat with a Muslim scholar, I just happened to elaborate

to him on the Geetha verse "karmanyeva adhikaaraste..." and

prasaadabuddhi. He said I sounded very much like a Muslim! To me,

Rumi is an advaitin! How much we have in common and how much do

people misunderstand still.

 

Regards.

 

Madathil Nair

___

In advaitin, ken knight <hilken_98@Y...> wrote to John Logan:

 

You will probably have discovered that the illness of

> the body is a positive opportunity...OK, I agree that

> all the medical bit can be a problem inasmuch as we

> have to allow the body time to heal and dispose of

> anaesthetics etc.......for we can watch the passing

> show more easily when not attached so severely to

> those activities we usually call 'my life'.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "madathilnair" <madathilnair> wrote:

> Namaste Kenji.

>

To me,

> Rumi is an advaitin! How much we have in common and how much do

> people misunderstand still.

 

Namaste,

 

For more on Rumi, please visit the web-site of Shahram Shiva,

an Iranian,[how's that for a transcultural name!!!] who 'performs'

Rumi's poetry:

 

http://www.rumi.net/rumi.html

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

--- madathilnair <madathilnair wrote:

>

> About your quotes from Rumi, I have a request for

> your

> consideration. Kindly provide translation for the

> Arabic words. I

> have no problem personally as I can understand

> Arabic; it may be

> helpful to other members to understand the verses

> better.

 

Namaste Madathilnair,

Oh dear, I was hoping that no one would pick this up.

Jabr...if this is needed...may be translated as

'foreigner'.

Mainly you are probably questioning...on behalf of the

group.... 'Ya Hu' and 'Ya Man Hu'. I know less Arabic

than I do Sanskrit which does not say much for my

Arabic, all I can offer comes from a little dictionary

work etc.

These can be seen as mantras and better left

untranslated. In the context of the poem they are the

mystical tradition that led to Al Ghazali getting into

serious trouble.

However, hoping that no fundamentalist from any

tradition will track me down, here are some thoughts.

(quick aside; my wife, a retired GP, is sitting in the

garden writing an essay, for her MA, on a mystical

work from the Christian tradition called the 'The

Cloud of Unknowing'and keeps coming in to tell me of

some more passages that speak from the heart of

Vedanta)

 

Here is a statement from Al Ghazali:

'The mystics, after their ascent to the heavens of

reality agree that they saw nothing in existence

except God, the One. Some of them attained this state

through discursive reasoning, others reached it by

savouring it and experiencing it. From these all

plurality finally fell away. They drowned in pure

isolation; their reason was lost in it, and they

became as if dazed in it. They no longer had the

capacity to recollect aught but God, nor could they in

any wise remember themselves. Nothing was left to them

but God. They became drunk with a drunkenness in

which their reason collapsed. One of them said, 'I am

God (the Truth)'. Another said, 'Glory be to me! How

great is my glory' while another said,'Within my robe

is naught but God'.'

>From such statements you can get the flavour of 'Ya

Hu' and 'Ya Man Hu'.

Remember that the Semitic religions come out of the

same roots and it is possible to argue that 'Ya Hu' is

the mystical name of God given to Moses when he asked

who it was that spoke from the 'burning bush'. This is

often given as 'Jahweh'which is corrupted into

Jehovah. In translation it means, 'I am that I am' but

really there is no tense binding this statement so you

could say, 'I was that I was', 'I am that I am' and 'I

will be that I will be'. So that gives you some idea

of Ya Hu.

'Ya Man Hu' can be translated as 'O, He who is.'

 

I hope that this helps to experience Rumi's poem. We

could pursue this further and I am sure find ourselves

in a discussion as to whether these writings are more

in tune with Ramanuja or Shankara. However I would

like to conclude with a few more words of Rumi. These

really relate to the true power of the Word, VAk of

the Vedas:

 

‘My poetry is like Egyptian bread: Night passes, and

you cannot eat it.

Eat it while it is fresh, before the dust settles on

it!

Its place is in the tropics of awareness---it dies in

this world because it is cold.

Like a fish, it flops a moment on dry ground. A moment

later you see it lifeless.

If you eat it imagining it to be fresh, you will have

to paint many fantastic images.

You will devour your own imagination, not these

ancient words, oh man!’

Divan 981

 

 

I have taken the line 'Its place is in the tropics of

awareness' as the title of a talk I will be giving

next February. At the moment I haven't a clue what the

talk will be about but I thought that it made a good

title.

 

Re. Sunder's reference to Shivaram, I would like to

visit one of his concerts but New York is too far from

London. I used to have some good contact with him via

e-mail but he seemed to be shaken badly by the

destruction of the World Trade Centre towers and went

very quiet for a while and I have not had a regular

e-mail posting since then.

I am just a little bit worried about his commercial

side. Spiritual wisdom is given to each of us freely

and I feel that to exploit this for personal gain,

whether financial or egoistic, is to lose sight of the

grace from which all flows. Truth is never harmed but

a cloud of ignorance soon gathers.

Rumi is very well served on the Web and a Google

search will give access to much of his work.

 

 

Best wishes for the weekend and I hope that all of you

who live in Germnay etc are avoiding the floods.

 

Ken Knight

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Ken,

 

Yes, we have "been there, done that"!

and yes, it is/was an opportunity to observe life differently. I am

sure that you have found many things as I have, which I thought were

so important -- are just not so important after all.

 

The recovery time was a problem, very body oriented and I was very

aware of a different kind of subjective time than I was used to. My

mind would focus on only one thing at a time and there were things I

intended to do and would watch myself not doing them for several days

because I didn't have the energy to actually do the moving to get

there. Doing the task wasn't the problem, it was the getting to it

that was the problem.

 

I had to learn to walk again which surprised me and made me aware of

how even the slightest ability to move is a gift! and we take so many

conditioned abilities for granted. Like eating. But when one has to

think about how to eat, what to do next....

 

Well, enough of that, it is now almost three years and I am doing

quite well with only an occasional skin cancer, but that is to be

expected in Arizona. Actually I am not doing too badly for a man of

69.

 

Thank you for your sharing and empathy. It is a new door these

terrible conditons with fearful names give us, but what great

opportunities and what wonderful new adventures.

 

Namaste,

John L.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Kenji.

 

That was more than a tanslation. You unravelled the soul of it all!

 

About your talk, please don't bother much about what you are going to

say. The "tropics of awareness" have a habit of opening up

spontaneously. The thoughts will then flow down from nowhere.

 

I often start writing (whatever liittle that I do) without even a

germ of an idea. But then Someone seems to intervene and finish the

job for me. You won't believe - often when I have a difficult

official communication to draft, I just pause and chant the

verse "avidyAnAm antastimiradwiipanagari......" from Saundarya Lahari

three times. That does the job. Chips just fall in place.

 

With Prof. Krishnamoorthyji's contribution, we have now more than

enough of Rumi to ruminate over for some time to come. However, I am

at a loss with the term "Shamsi Tabriz". While Shamisi can mean "My

Sun", what does Tabriz stand for?

 

I would hesitate to put Rumi's thoughts in league with those of

either Ramanuja or Sankara, where the intellect has a greater sway.

I would rather relate them to our present generation "neos", those

who are drunk with the joy of awareness, on whose fenceless landscape

advaitic thoughts bloom in multitudes like spring tulips. Perhaps,

the Sufi's lived much ahead of their times.

 

Regards.

 

Madathil Nair

_______________________

 

 

advaitin, ken knight <hilken_98@Y...> wrote:

> I hope that this helps to experience Rumi's poem. We

> could pursue this further and I am sure find ourselves

> in a discussion as to whether these writings are more

> in tune with Ramanuja or Shankara. However I would

> like to conclude with a few more words of Rumi. These

> really relate to the true power of the Word, VAk of

> the Vedas:

>

>

> I have taken the line 'Its place is in the tropics of

> awareness' as the title of a talk I will be giving

> next February. At the moment I haven't a clue what the

> talk will be about but I thought that it made a good

> title.