Atman

[Guest guest]

Namaste all,

 

Here is a question on the etymology of Atman. Some

time back I found that the general view concept of

Atman was, at best, some sort of point of light at the

centre of 'my' being. Questioning such a concept I

turned to Monier Monier Williams and he gives the

derivation as :

at...to go

vA....to blow

an....to breathe

 

This was very interesting as it brought to mind many

scriptural references from many traditions and as it

broke the bounds of past ideas I left the study there.

 

However I am presently carrying out a similar study on

prAna and this caused me to look again at Atman and

more disctionary work produces:

 

at...........to go constantly

vA..to blow towards or upon, to bestow by blowing

an..to breathe

 

This brings some refinement but now come my questions.

 

The 'long' 'A' at the beginning, by itself would mean

near or near to as a prefix. Why does MMW lose the

extra measure of 'a'?

If 'vA' is correct, why does the 'v' disappear to be

replaced by 'm'?

 

Do you think that MMW's derivation is correct?

Does anyone know of alternative's from intellogent

sources?

 

Many Thanks

 

 

ken Knight

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, ken knight <hilken_98@Y...> wrote:

>

> Do you think that MMW's derivation is correct?

> Does anyone know of alternative's from intellogent

> sources?

 

 

Namaste,

 

Prof. Ranade [1887-1957], who studied Philosophy in Sanskrit,

Greek, and German, besides 3 other major Indian languages (Marathi,

Hindi, and Kannada), co-authored a book with S.K.Belvalkar in 1927,

and wrote: {there is extensive discussion of Atman in this book, as

well as in his 'A Constructive Survey of Upanishadic Philosophy') -

 

"...........But inasmuch as the Rigveda exhibits a more frequent use

of 'tman' in place of Atman as the reflexive pronoun in the sense

of 'one's self', it has been plausibly urged by Deussen that Atman is

really a euphonically extended form of 'tman'; and we in fact meet

with the use of 'tman' in texts like the Katha Upanishad

(1:3:12)...........The connection of breath or wind with the soul is

evident enough. As to the other derivation Deussen supposes

that 'tman' [originally denoting 'that'(t) 'me'(ma)]may have come to

signify one's own proper self or essence...............

 

from History of Indian Philosophy, The Creative Period,

p. 357; 1974, 2nd edition; Belvalkar & Ranade,Oriental Books, New

Delhi

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

======================================================================

======================================

http://www.uni-koeln.de/phil-fak/indologie/tamil/mwd_search.html

 

Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon

 

Entry tman

 

Meaning (= %{Atma4n}) m. the vital breath RV. i , 63 , 8 (acc. %

{tma4nam}) A1s3vS3r. vi , 9 , 1 (acc. %{tmAnam}) ; one's own person ,

self RV. ;%{'tman} after %{e} , or %{o} for %{Atman} Kat2hUp. iii ,

12 MBh. i-iii BhP. vii , 9 , 32 ; %{tma4nA} instr. and (at the end of

a Pa1da) %{tma4n} loc. ind. used as an emphatic particle (like $ and

$) `" yet , really , indeed , even , at least , certainly , also "'

RV. VS. vi , 11 ; xi , 31 TS. ii , 1 , 11 , 2 AV. v , 27 , 11 ; %

{uta4@tma4nA} or %{tma4nAca} `" and also , and certainly "' , %{iva}

or %{na4@tma4nA} `" just as "' , %{a4dha@tma4nA} , `" and even "'

RV.

----

----

------------------------

Entry Atman

 

Meaning %{A} m. (variously derived fr. %{an} , to breathe ; %{at} ,

to move ; %{vA} , to blow ; cf. %{tma4n}) the breath RV. ; the soul ,

principle of life and sensation RV. AV. &c. ; the individual soul ,

self , abstract individual [e.g. %{Atma4n}] (Ved. loc.) %{dhatte} ,

or %{karoti} , `" he places in himself "' , makes his own TS. v

S3Br. ; %{AtmanA@akarot} , `" he did it himself "' Ka1d. ; %

{AtmanA@vi-yuj} , `" to lose one's life "' Mn. vii , 46 ; %{Atman} in

the sg. is used as reflexive pronoun for all three persons and all

three genders e.g. %{AtmAnaM@sA@hanti} , `" she strikes herself "' ; %

{putram@AtmanaH@spRSTvA@nipetatuH} , `" they two having touched their

son fell down "' R. ii , 64 , 28 ; [see also below s.v. %{AtmanA}] ;

essence , nature , character , peculiarity (often ifc. e.g. %

{karmA7tman} , &c.) RV. x , 97 , 11 , &c. ; the person or whole body

considered as one and opposed to the separate members of the body VS.

S3Br. ; the body Ragh. i , 14 Ra1matUp. ; (ifc.) `" the

understanding , intellect , mind "' see %{naSTA7tman} , %{mandA7-} ;

the highest personal principle of life , Brahma (cf. %{paramA7tman})

AV. x , 8 , 44 VS. xxxii , 11 S3Br. xiv , &c. ; effort L. ; (= %

{dhRti}) firmness L. ; the sun L. ; fire L. ; a son L. ; [Old Germ.

{a1tum} ; Angl. Sax. {oedhm} ; Mod. Germ. {Athem} , {Odem} ; Gk. $ ,

$ (?).] &42279[135 ,1]

[Guest guest]

The following meaning of Atman

occurs probably in the Vishnu-sahasranAma bhashya by Sankara or

in the LalitAsahasranAma bhAshya by Bhaskararaya:

Living in this body and known as the individual soul, it

'reaches' ( = Apnoti) the sensed objects, it 'possesses' them (=

Adatte), it 'experiences' them (=atti), and finally it 'exists'

(asti) in some form or other.

yaccApnoti yadAdatte yaccAtti vishayAniha /

yaccAsya santato bhAvah tasmAdAtmeti gIyate //

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Kenji,

 

The following part of Sunderji's post combined

with your remark on the meaning of A, seems to bring

out the meaning of Atma.

 

advaitin, "sunderh" <sunderh> wrote:

> that 'tman' [originally denoting 'that'(t) 'me'(ma)]may have come

to

> signify one's own proper self or essence...............

>

 

Continuing the exercise initiated on the advaita-l list:

 

t denotes that, seems very reasonable to assume this.

(or may be this needs more explanation)

 

m denotes (limited) Purusha, (when m becomes more and more

subtle, it becomes a deep humming sound and finally

silence - then it denotes the Shiva tattva).

 

hence tma is that (limited) me.

>From your earlier posting

> The 'long' 'A' at the beginning, by itself would mean

> near or near to as a prefix.

 

Atma thus is "near that me". Atma that means "that limited

me". Probably that is why we need teachings like:

Atma = brahma, to remove the assumed limitation.

 

Regarding praNa, do you think the following may be related:

pra (original) aNu (jIva), praNa thus will refer to that

which is the very essence of a Jiva.

 

Best regards

Shrinivas

[Guest guest]

Namste all who helped with my question on the

etymology of the word.

Thank you for taking this up. I asked the question as

I wanted to be rid of some limited thinking on the

subject and this was achieved through your help.

 

Now I am left with the 'mind' searching around to

formulate a new understanding which will have to be

disposed of later.

 

Shrinivas posed the question as to prANa being the

very essence of jiva (pra..original, aNu...jiva).

 

I had been looking at prANa at the same time as Atman

and had settled on a rough translation as 'breath

going forth and filling fully'.

I have in mind here the Biblical statement of the

creation of Adam (sounds like Atman to me but that is

just supposition) in which 'God breathed life into

Adam.' There is also some interesting text on the

change of name of 'Abram' by 'God' into 'Abraham'.

Note the introduction of the outward breath 'ha'.

Again just intriguing possibilities there.

 

Following some of the other threads on the site at the

moment on the 'heart'I note also this outward which

takes place through observation.

 

All these words such as prANa, jIva and purusha get me

as muddled as do 'Spirit' and 'soul' in Western

thought. Language is such a confusing tool for

teaching about simplicity!!!!!!!!!!

 

Shrinivas' question reminds me also of the following

which would bring in yet more words so I will shut up.

 

'Caitanya is either associated with antaHkaraNa or

not. Caitanya associated with antaHkaraNa is jIva.

Caitanya not associated with antaHkaraNa is pure

Brahman. The jIva (associated with antaHkaraNa) is the

primary meaning (vAcyArtha) of the word ‘tvam’ and

Brahman is the secondary meaning (lakshyArtha) of

tvam.'

 

Have a good weekend,

 

Ken Knight

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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