Gita Satsangh (avyakta)

September 21, 2002

My dear noble devotee of Sri Sankara

Bhagavatpujyapada,

Than you very much for your kind reply,sir.

We can't afford to end

that mAnasa! Our most beautiful swan is there.

Please look at the

swan. The mAnasa is not seen any more. Bhuvaneswarji

doesn't exist.

Only She exists – the one who shines like a million

Suns. And, lo!

When Bhuvaneswar does not exist,there is no manasa

,sir.Sarvam khalvidam Brahma!!!

Right now, I am because I think I am and since I think

I am, I am doing research on proverbs because of the

vasana. Unless ,I finish off with that vasana, I

cannot simply look like a spectator.

I fully ageee with your suggestion to simply

look.SIMPLY...SIMPLY looking is matter of I ...LOOKING

without I.That is destroying the I thought in one way

or the other.

I understand that nahi nahi rakshati dhukrunkarane but

I cannot just jump off.Let the fruit ripen and fall

off without bleeding.

Thank you for your love. Please send me some

quotations on vak related to the scriptures.I am

scripture illiterate.

I sent the holy pictures of Sri Chakram,Sri Saradamba,

Sri Dakshinaa Murty and Sri Ganesa in the reverse

order.But they are blocked by your rules. Any way to

accommmodate my request ?

Aha regarding the metaphor,I thought of it after

typing and sending the letter. May be that is how Sri

Saradamba wanted it . I am in the nebulous sky of

samsara at this moment and I want to land on to the

stable Brahmavastha.I am sorry, I reversed the

traditional thinking aboutit. Please forgive me. I

have no intention of distorting Sri Krishna's banyan

tree example.

Yours In Sri Sankara Bhagavatpujyapada's love,

Chilukuri Bhuvaneswar

--- Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair

wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

My dear Bhuvaneswarji.

Reference your post 14734.

I will try to be as short as possible. But when

it comes to Vedanta,

I am noisy and talkative. Can't help it.

I believe you meant the pramanAs by sAstrik

knowledge. Pramanas are

the landmarks. They are like light houses. We

need them to do

vichAra without getting lost. I have made this

clear in my previous

two posts.

Your understanding of my metaphor of people who drift

like golden

clouds in an azure sky is cent percent

right. I employed that

metaphor to drive home the point that such people

exist, that we

could be like them in this very birth if only we did

proper vichAra

on our true nature according to pramAnas, and that

meditation

opportunities could be utilized to do this vichAra

instead of using

them to tirelessly prod at the unknown. Such

constant vichAra

ultimately delivers even without the need of samAdhi

stopovers! One

who does not do vichAra can have a samAdhi

"experience". But once he

comes out of samAdhi, he goes back to his old ways of

ignorance.

Thank you for quoting from our Mother Lalita's

nAmAvali. Please

consider the last name of your quote – bhaktamAnasa

hamsika: the

swan of the mAnasa (lake) of the devotee. The

swan is where? In the

mAnasa. So, we are still at mAnasa level.

We can't afford to end

that mAnasa! Our most beautiful swan is

there. Please look at the

swan. The mAnasa is not seen any more.

Bhuvaneswarji doesn't exist.

Only She exists – the one who shines like a million

Suns. And, lo!

All of a sudden the realization dawns – "I am

looking at myself". I

hope you got the point. Please try to see that

hamsika all the time –

at the bus stop, at the market place, in your

classroom, when you

look at the eyes of your students (You are a teacher,

I remember! How

wonderful!). She will take care of you and

answer your doubts.

Isn't She avidyAnam antastimiradweepanagari?

(Saundarya Lahari).

Now about thoughts bothering you. Why should

they bother you? Do

the stars bother you? No. Why? Because they are

out there and they

are not yours. Thoughts bother you because you

feel that they

are "your" thoughts, they concern you and

they are inside you.

Please sit and look at them like you look at the

stars. You can see

them come, twinkle in your mental space and go. It is

like sitting at

Chicago airport and watching the planes land one after

another.

Simply look at them. It may be the wife

thought. Salute her and let

her pass. Wives are most demanding. Don't

go after that thought.

It may be money thought which has a very great

pull. Salute and

leave it to pass. Mind you, Bhuvaneswarji, this

watching is great

fun. It is like JohnL of our list watching the

grass grow. Who is

the watcher – you Bhuvaneswarji. You are

the big light from which

those little thoughts borrowed their light. And

you are worried

about them?! The Sun worrying about the

candles! So, don't ever

think of destroying your thoughts or your mind, which

is nothing but

a flow of thoughts. Have them, treasure them,

watch them and be

yourself inspite of them. Then they go away

because they are

intelligent enough to understand that you don't care

to entertain

them. With them, your desire to get at the root

of your thoughts

will also vanish because you already know that the

"root" is you –

the brilliant hamsika! The root of not the

thoughts alone but the

whole universe that you experience!

No one can escape thinking like no one can escape

breathing (na

kaschit ksanamapi …… (BG)). But don't think that

I am thinking and I

am breathing. Be the witness of both which you

actually are. That

witness dictates your thoughts but does not

think. The thinker who

has the thinkership thinks that he thinks and then

grieves! That is

not you. You are the witness.

May I reverse metaphor at the end of your post?

SamsAra is down

below. BrahmAvasta is the sky. You need the

rocket and fuel of

proper knowledge (pramAnAs)and vichAra on them to send

you up there

and place you in permanent orbit!

Now, please join me in singing the thousand names of

our Hamsika, Sri

Lalita Parameswari.

Pranams.

Madathil Nair

advaitin, Bhuvaneswar Chilukuri

<bhuvaneswarc> wrote:

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September 21, 2002

Dear Prof. Krishnamurthyji and Ramji,

Thanks once again for your kind words of appreciation.

Prof. Murthyji, as asked by Ramji, I am addressing this to the List

and not to you directly. Hope this change of decision will not

matter.

This morning, I remembered that I had sent a detailed introduction

and profile when I joined the list and looked it up in the archives.

My post is there in the welcome message # 12139. Will you kindly

refer to it? I don't want to waste diskspace by quoting it here all

over again.

However, I would like to elaborate on the contents as follows to

answer Prof. Murthyji's specific queries:

You can describe my path as jnAna mArga. As jnAna is understanding

that I am everything and, since I love only myself unconditionally, I

know that I cannot claim full jnAna until I am spontaneously in love

with all creation. That love is true devotion. So, I understand JnAna

and bhakti are inter-complementary. My ishtadevata is the Universal

Mother and my ongoing endeavour is to see Her in everything and love

Her as myself. I am sure I will succeed. With her around, who will

not?

I would say I have three gurus:

1. Swami Dayananda Saraswathiji. As I mentioned in my introduction,

he pushed me irreversibly into the contemplation mode. I have not

seen him for a long time now. He may not remember me even! However,

his message "Contemplate!" still keeps ringing as well as working. A

raining cloud does not bother whether it watered a particular thirsty

tree enroute. It has the whole world in view! I never had an

opportunity to meet Swami Chinmayanandaji although I grew up reading

his works.

2. Mata Amritanandamayi Devi in whom I have found a living

personification of the jnAna I described above. She is in love with

the entire creation. She has convinced me that others could also be

like her if they tried.

3. The most indefatigable despot of our times who is currently

keeping the most powerful man on earth amusingly pre-occupied. Yes.

Saddam Hussein - for keeping me incarcerated in Baghdad in 1990, for

teaching me that the things that we run after can all end in a split

second, that a man can face any hardships and, since he can, he may

as well do that without wailing like an idiot. His prison camp was

my contemplation laboratory.

Ramji, you really scare me when you call me a scholar. I am nothing

of that sort. I haven't even studied the BG adequately. I am

sending posts on it and on Ch. Up. just to keep the discussion going,

learn more and engage in effective satsang. I am a very lazy guy

with innumerable failings and foibles.

I am afraid my kArana sarIra post sent the wrong message and our

Sadanandaji suspected I was perhaps advocating the so-called Direct

Approach. I have just begun to read Klein. Honestly, I find him

profound in several respects. There is a lot to be learnt from him.

However, I can never to the opinion that "knowledge" can be

attained by simple talk. One has to do strict sAdhana and vichAra on

scriptural statements. I wanted to emphasize this point at the end

of my last post (the one in the form a conversation between A and

B). However, in the hurry of rushing my daughter to the dentist, the

matter skipped my attention.

I am not that good at the sAdhana part - particularly physical.

Although I do regular sIrSAsana (headstand), sarvAngAsana

(shoulderstand), sUrya namaskAr (saltuation to Sun God) and several

other difficult bending yoga poses, will you believe I cannot still

sit in padmAsana (lotus pose)? Even sukhAsana (the easy meditation

pose) is difficult for me. It has got something to do with anatomy.

I have no choice but to accept it.

Such a me was once in the company of a yogic "practitioner" (Courtesy

for the word: our Gummuluru Murthyji again) - a master of yogAsanAs

and a Sree Vidya UpAsaka strictly as per vidhis (scriptural

instructions). I was driving and he was sitting beside me when I

narrated the happiness and ecstasy I experience in the incessant

chanting of the Lalita SahasranAmAvali (the thousand names of Mother

Lalita). He looked really concerned and asked me if I did the

chanting while driving too. When I answered in the affirmative, he

advised me against doing that. He was worried about the possibility

of my sliding into a samAdhi while driving - the prospect of a big

accident, my death, my family being without support etc.

I could appreciate his concern. However, I could'nt avoid wondering

why such an accomplished spiritual person entertained such mortal

worries. I believe the answer to that lies in the firmness of one's

advaitic convictions. An advaitin should realize that what happens

or what thought occurs in the next moment is not within his hands or

control. Lalita takes care of it. Leave it to Her. She knows when I

should have my samAdhi. It is Her will. Teachers like Saddam

Hussein are instrumental in imparting such convictions to us! That

was what he taught many of us on the morning of 2nd August 1990.

Some learnt the lesson. Others are yet to. Ignorance runs very deep

indeed!

I am a reckless Don Quixote fighting imaginary windmills on the

outskirts of vedanta. There is my Mother to attend to my bruises when

I return home tired. My friend is a study in contrast. He follows

the rules, keeps his calm and entertains legitimate worries. Mother

loves him too. Does She not love her voracious elephant son and his

studious brother equally? What more do we need, Sirs?

MAta cha PArvateedevi, pitA devo maheswarah

BAndhavA sivabhaktahcha, swadeso bhuvanathrayam!

(My mother is PArvati Devi, father Lord Siva; devotees of Lord Siva

are my friends and relatives, and my place all three worlds (waking,

dream and sleep).

I was born in Mumbai (SivAji Park), grew up in Kerala and belongs to

bhuvanathrayam.

Thanks for asking me to write. If I have indulged, as I always do,

kindly forgive this son of a Great Mother! I chant the Saundarya

Lahari verse "avidyAnAm antastimiradweepanagari......" three times

before beginning to write. So, I don't have any claims to what I

write. If you find clarity in it, Prof. Murthyji, that clarity

belongs to Her!

PranAms to all advaitins.

Madathil Nair

______________________

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> Namaste. Madathilnairji, Your plea for spontaneity and

> naturalness in the effort at spirituality is marvellous.

> Personally I would like to know more about your background and

> the path you trod to arrive at such clarity.

September 21, 2002

Madathil Nairji wrote: (Post #14738)

......Now about thoughts bothering you. Why should they bother

you? Do the stars bother you? No. Why? Because they are out

there and they are not yours. Thoughts bother you because you

feel that they are "your" thoughts, they concern you and they

are inside you. Please sit and look at them like you look at the

stars. You can see them come, twinkle in your mental space and

go. It is like sitting at Chicago airport and watching the

planes land one after another. Simply look at them.....

-------------------------------

VK: I am reminded of a characteristic expression of The Mother

(Aurobindo Ashram): Don't you see, through the window, sitting

in your room in your house, things happening on the street, and

people going this way and that way, and sometimes quarrelling

too? Don't you just see them without being affected or impacted?

That is the posture you have to keep watching your own thoughts.

Thoughts come and go. Just watch them. Don't get into the

subject of the thoughts. Don't get involved in the thoughts. One

thought will come but it will go. Soon another thought will

arise. Just as one person walking in the street appears in your

window-view but soon disappears and another person appears. As

each thought arises and falls, let it do so. Sometimes the next

thought will take some time to arise. Don't expect the thought.

Don't think about the absence of the next thought. Don't think

about anything.

And so on she goes describing what happens when you meditate!

praNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

http://finance.

September 24, 2002

My dear Bhuvaneswarji,

It was virtually pouring cats and dogs last week on the Advaitin

List. I had missed your post # 14741 in the deluge. I read it only

this morning. There is a dry spell now!

Kindly permit me to point out the following that I gathered from our

exchange of frequent mails:

1. One has to decide whether research is for advaita or advaita for

research. In your case, I am afraid, the latter applies.

2. That is perhaps why you feel that you are doing research because

of vAsana. No doubt, all actions can be tracked back to vAsanas.

But such reasoning out shall not be a justification for continuing

inadvaitic actions.

3. Advaita becomes practical when it quells the spell of vAsanAs.

Indulging on the vAsana link only reinforces ignorance and doershp.

4. You can remain an advaitin and continue research. Such research

without a feeling of "researchership" is most enjoyable and most

effective because then you become the research itself and not the

researcher. This applies to each and every action that we perform.

Be the action and find the thrill!

5. This was what I meant when I said in my previous

post "Bhuvaneswarji does not exist" when he sees the brilliant

hamsika. However, you used that statement to point out to me that if

you didn't exist, there was no mAnasa either, implying that the

experience was at a level beyond the mAnasa.

6. You are quite right. However, I am afraid you missed the point I

was trying to make. Just imagine, you are enjoying your early morning

tea. You are relishing every drop of it because that is the first

cup of tea after a long period of deprivation. The world is very

much around you, your eyes and ears are open, but where are you?

Right in the taste buds! You are very much in the enjoyment of the

tea, nay, you are the very enjoyment. At that moment, there is no

moment, there is no Bhuvaneswarji, there are no taste-buds, there is

no tea and there is no mind. Everything merged into one -

enjoyment. It is only afterwards that all the components and

paraphernalia that merged into the making of that enjoyment fall

apart to present you with an "experience of enjoyment" where you are

there with your enjoyership with a sense of past, present and

future. Even the knowledge that the experience was enjoyed because

there was a mind behind it occurs only later and, mind you, it occurs

to the "enjoyer with an enjoyership".

[in fact, as an aside, this is the explanation that I would like to

apply for our deep sleep experience too!]

It is upto you to be such "enjoyment" each and every moment of your

research work and life too. Life can then become just an "explosion

of enjoyment" which can make you fall on the ground and roll! (I have

a better single word. I am afraid of using it lest I am

misunderstood.). Advaita helps. But on one condition, research for

advaita not vice versa. It is upto you to make up your mind.

Please don't think this Nair fellow is advising too much. I am just

observing for the sake of satsang.

Don't ever think I am a stotriya. I am also scripture-illiterate

and currently operating without even a copy of the beloved BG!

Thanks for the kind gesture of sending me the pictures. Yes. This

List does not permit attachments.

And that reminds me - here is an "advice" afterall. I see that you

are quoting the whole of reference posts and that too with details of

the formatting! I don't know why formatting details appear in your

quotes! It does not happen to us. In order to save your and the

List's diskspace, kindly avoid reproducing the entire text. The best

solution is to refer to the post number right in the beginning. Other

members can also consider this suggestion which obviates even partial

quoting.

Pranams.

Madathil Nair

___________________________

September 29, 2002

Note from the Moderator: Inspite of repeated requests, you continue to attach

the copies of the previous messages of the thread. Please understand that the

moderators don't have time to read and cut the unnecessary parts of your

message. We appreciate your cooperation and please take time to erase the

unnecessary parts of the message before sending to the list.

My dear noble devotee of Sri Sankara

Bhagavatpujyapada,

Thank you very much for your kind advice and the

concern you have for me.I very much appreciate it and

hope to receive it in future also.

1.Yes, you are right . I am one who has joined your

group with the hope of interacting with your members

for using advaita to do research on language, with

special reference to proverbs.When someone wants to

apply something ,he should know about that something

without which he cannot successfully apply it.So I am

also trying to do research on advaita.In fact , I know

more about advaita than before - relatively - after

trying to do research using advaita. Incidentally,it

is Sri Lalithamba and Sri Sankara Bhagavatpujyapada

through the the Grace of Gayathri Matha that are

responsible for entering into advaita for my

research.It is a long story. I will tell you about it

some other time.Sri Panini and Sri Anandavardhana and

a host of others including Sri Sankara

Bhagavatpujyapada Himself used advaita to explain

language . SA IKSHETHER NA SABDATH involves language.

Doesn't it ? Is it not using Advaita to explain the

HOly NAMES of Sri Lalithamba in so many ways from

Para to Pasyanthi to Madhyama to Vaikhari to Vimarsa

rupini and so on?

6.Oh ,yes . I understand doing things without the

feeling of agency. In fact I had some first hand

experiences of this kind of approach.For example, when

I fell of Astari, a great horse of our Unimaid and

Horse-riding and Polo Club in UNimaid, Nigeria,I

watched the body aching - I was not aching . Thanks to

Sri Ashtavakra and OUR LORD SRI KRISHNA !!! When I was

sitting on a lorry in the hot sun bringing seedlings

to conduct a tree -planting campaign in Maiduguri; and

so on. But these states do not remain continuously.

Take the case of another fantastic experience of not

enjoyment but BlISS I experienced. I was completely

exhausted after conducting a leprosy campaign where 5

tons of food grains and clothes were distributed in

the Molai Leprosy Hospital, Maiduguri and after the

campaign was over, I came back and fell down on my

bed. Then ,suddenly, sweetness ,pure sweetnes soaked

my heart and that feeling stayed on for 20 minutes or

so.Those actions were performed with zeal and

determination but without the feeling of karthrutva

,you are talking of. But all these will go away.They

do not last forever. It is only when , I think ,One

roots out vasana and guna that one will

UNINTERRUPTEDLY experience the kind of enjoyment you

are talking about. Again ,even in the case of my

research , had I not got involved with that kind of

attitude, I would have gone mad. At every step in this

research , I see the unseen hand of Sri Sankara

Bhagavatpujyapada guiding me !!! Even the name of the

model I coined came from the second slokam of Sri

Dakshina Murthy written by my Lord Sri Sankara.

It is my humble feeling that through language we can

also go to the destination you are so much talking

about. VAGVAI BRAMHA!!! PRAJNAM BRAMHA !!!

I will send you a note after a month or so after I get

free time on how using Advaita helped me to do

research on advaita through Sri Lalithamba's HOLIEST

NAMES as it happened in my real life experience.There

is the whole of language in Sri Lalitha Sahasra

Namam!!!

May You Sing the Glory of Sri Lalithamba for ever !!!

BY the by the Bliss I experienced on that day of the

Leprosy campaign reminds me of the Bhaktamanasa

Hamsika metaphor.On the lake of my mind,I was

experiencing the Bliss of Swan moving !!! Do not

think that I have Sri Lalithamba in Her full Glory in

that experience!!! I am only trying to visualise with

an ordinary experience what that would be.

LOVE TO ALL

CHILUKURI BHUVANESWAR

--- Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair

wrote:

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