Gita Satsangh; Chapter 9 Verses 1 to 3

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

Ram Chandranji, In Verse 9 - 1, you are giving the translation

of 'jnAna' as the knowledge of attributeless brahman and

'vijnAna' as the knowledge of brahman with attributes. This

interpretation is new to me. I have always heard it said that

jnAna is knowledge and vijnAna is knowledge with experience.

That is how Sankara himself comments on the sloka. Can you tell

me the source of your translation?

 

paNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

http://sbc.

[Guest guest]

Namaste ProfVK:

 

This translation is from a multimedia CDROM, developed by a group in

Bangalore with the assistance of Professor Panduranga (a Sanskrit

Scholar). I believe that there is an implied understanding that the

knowledge of Sadguna Brahman is from the knowledge with experience.

But your point is well taken and I have noticed that Professor

Panduranga is a follower of Madhwacharya!

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> Namaste

>

> Ram Chandranji, In Verse 9 - 1, you are giving the translation

> of 'jnAna' as the knowledge of attributeless brahman and

> 'vijnAna' as the knowledge of brahman with attributes. This

> interpretation is new to me. I have always heard it said that

> jnAna is knowledge and vijnAna is knowledge with experience.

> That is how Sankara himself comments on the sloka. Can you tell

> me the source of your translation?

>

> paNAms to all advaitins

> profvk

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

ON A QUESTION OF SANSKRIT GRAMMAR.

 

In Sloka 3, the word 'ashraddadhAnAH' occurs. It means 'those

who have no faith'.

The word for faith is 'shraddhA'. Note the letter 'ddhA' here.

The word for 'no faith' should then be 'ashraddhA' and not

'ashraddA', with a drop in the aspiration of 'ddh'. The last

vowel 'A' is long here because the word is feminine. But that is

not the point now.

How does the 'ddha' become 'dda' in 'ashraddadhAnAH'?

The same word 'ashraddadhAnaH' (singular) appears in Ch.4 - 40.

 

It is not only a question of 'shraddha' versus 'ashradda'. Even

when it is 'shraddadhAnAH' ( = those who have faith) - as it

appears in Ch.12 - 20, the same change from 'ddha' to 'dda'

happens.

 

What is the subtle grammar here? Can someone help?

 

praNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

http://sbc.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote:

> Namaste ProfVK:

>

> This translation is from a multimedia CDROM, developed by a group

in

> Bangalore with the assistance of Professor Panduranga (a Sanskrit

> Scholar). I believe that there is an implied understanding that

the

> knowledge of Sadguna Brahman is from the knowledge with experience.

> But your point is well taken and I have noticed that Professor

> Panduranga is a follower of Madhwacharya!

 

Namaste,

 

In point of fact Shankara does not mention either saguna or

nirguna! He just calls vijnanasahitam - anubhavayuktam.

Radhakrishnan's note on this verse states jnana as wisdom, and

vijnana as detailed knowledge - intellectual!

 

Jnaneshvara states jnana as self-knowledge, and vijnana as

phenomenal knowledge, 'knowledge of prapancha also'!

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sundeji:

 

Our discussions on the translation of verse 1 truly demonstrates the

importance of Satsangh and that is the most effective way of clearing

our doubts. The ideal way of understanding Gita or any scriptural

text is from a knowledgeable Guru and Satsangh is a second best

solution. We can never get clearer understanding of the original

Sanskrit texts using standard dictionaries. I am glad that we have

ProfVK to guide the Satsangh with able assistance from Sri Sunderji.

 

Here is a translation of first three verses by one of the well known

Sanskrit Scholar, Alladi Mahadeva Sastri. This translation uses the

Sankara Bhashya:

 

The Blessed Lord said:

1. To thee who does not evil, I shall now declare this, the greatest

secret, knowledge combined with experience, which having known thou

shall be liberated from evil.

This: the BrahmaJnana, the, knowledge of Brahman, which is going to

be declared, and which has been declared in the preceding discourses.

Now: this word points to the superiority of knowledge (over Dhyana):

this right knowledge alone forms the direct means of attaining

moksha; as declared in the sruti and the smriti: Vasudeva is the

All (Bhagavadgita, v. 19.) And nothing else is a direct means to

moksha, as the passages of the sruti like the following declare:

Now the other princes, who understand otherwise than thus, they

shall attain to perishable regions. On attaining this knowledge you

will be liberated from the bondage of samsara. And it is

 

2. The Sovereign Science, the Sovereign Secret, the Supreme Purifier

is this ; immediately comprehensible, unopposed to Dharma, very easy

to perform, imperishable.

Of sciences it is the king, because it is of great splendor Indeed,

the science of Brahman is the most brilliant t of all sciences. So

also, it is the king of secrets. Of all the purifiers, this knowledge

of Brahman is the best purifier. That it is a purifier needs no

saying, since it reduces karma to ashes in an instant, root and all;

all the karma, dharma and adharma, which has been accumulated during

many thousand births Moreover, it can be comprehended by

patyakshapratyaksha, by immediate perception, like the feeling of

pleasure and so on. What is possessed of many a desirable quality may

be opposed to Dharma ; but not so is the knowledge of Atman opposed

to Dharma ; on the other hand it is not separable from Dharma, i.e

not opposed to it. Even then it may be supposed that it is very

difficult to attain ; but it is not so, says the Lord. It is very

easy to acquire, like the power of discriminating gems. Now, of the

other acts, those which involve little trouble and are easily

accomplished are seen to be productive of small results, and

difficult acts are found to be productive of great results.

Accordingly it may be imagined chat this Brahmaj aana which is so

easily attained perishes when its effect is exhausted: to prevent

this supposition, the Lord says that it is imperishable. It does not

perish like an act when the effect is exhausted. Wherefore knowledge

of Atman (Self) is worth acquiring. But,

 

3. Persons having no faith in this Dharma, O harasser of thy foes,

without reaching Me, remain verily in the path of the mortal world.

Those who have no faith in this Dharma (law, religion) knowledge of

the Self, those who do not believe in its existence or in its

effects, the sinful who follow the doctrine of the Demons (Asuras),

regarding the physical body itself as the Self; these greedy and

sinful persons do not attain to Me the Supreme LordThe attaining of

Me is certainly out of question ; wherefore, the implication is that

they do not attain even to devotion (Bhakti) which is one of the

paths leading to Me ; they are sure to remain in the path of the

mortal world, in that path only which leads to hell (naraka) and to

the lower kingdoms of animals, etc.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

>

> Namaste,

>

> In point of fact Shankara does not mention either saguna or

> nirguna! He just calls vijnanasahitam - anubhavayuktam.

> Radhakrishnan's note on this verse states jnana as wisdom, and

> vijnana as detailed knowledge - intellectual!

>

> Jnaneshvara states jnana as self-knowledge, and vijnana as

> phenomenal knowledge, 'knowledge of prapancha also'!

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

ON THE SECRET OF SECRETS.

 

The word 'guhya-tamaM' in Sloka 1 means 'secret-superlative'.

Aurobindo translates it as 'Secret of Secrets' and I have been

using it ever since I came across it. This word 'guhya-tamaM'

occurs exactly three times in the Gita: first, here; secondly in

Ch.15 - 20 and lastly in Ch.18 - 64. These three secret(s) of

secrets are very important for the understanding of the gita.

The first secret of secrets is announced here by the Lord at the

beginning of the ninth chapter but actually comes in verses 4

and 5. When we come to it we shall see more of it. Those who are

in a hurry, however, may go to my webpage:

 

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/8203.html

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

http://sbc.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> Namaste

>

> ON A QUESTION OF SANSKRIT GRAMMAR.

>

> In Sloka 3, the word 'ashraddadhAnAH' occurs.

 

Namaste,

 

The word shraddadhAnaH would seem to be made up of two parts:

 

shrat (= faith) and dhAna (=holder, from root dhA).

 

shraddhA is the abstract noun from from the first part.

 

shradda + dhAnaH = one who is a holder of that faith .

 

Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon

----

Entry zrat

 

Meaning or %{zra4d} ind. (accord. to Naigh. iii , 10 = %{satya} , `"

truth , faithfulness "' ; prob. allied to Lat. %{credo} for %{cred-

do} ; %{cor} , %{cord-is} ; Gk. $ , $ , Eng. &331553[1095 ,3] `"

heart "' ; only in comp. with %{kR} and %{dAna} and %{dhA} and its

derivations see below).

----

Entry dhAna

 

Meaning mfn. containing , holding (cf. %{uda-}) ; n. receptacle ,

case , seat (cf. %{agni-} , %{kSura-} , %{rajju-} &c. ; %{-

nam@akto4s} prob. = womb or bosom of the night RV. iii , 7 , 6) ; (%

{I}) f. = n. (cf. %{aGgAra-} , %{gopAla-} , %{rAja-} &c.) ; the site

of a habitation L. ; coriander L. ; N. of a river L. ; (%{A4}) f. see

s.v.

 

{There must be some sutra in Ashtadhyayi relating to the doubling of

the end consonant between a short vowel and soft consonant!]

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

On a question of Sanskrit grammar.

 

Thank you Sunderji. I didn't realise that 'shrat' would mean

faith and the first part of 'shraddadhAna' comes from 'shrat'

and not from 'shraddhA'. Thanks again. I agree with you about

your conjecture about the existence of a relevant sutra in

ashTAdhyAyI.

 

praNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

http://sbc.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> Namaste

>

> On a question of Sanskrit grammar.

 

Namaste,

 

Interestingly, the word shraddadhAna also occurs in

Chandogya upan. 7:19:1 .

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Sri gurubhyo namaH,

 

This is a free from translation of the gist of Sri Satchidanandendra

Saraswathi Swamiji's commentary on Bhagavad Geeta, Chapter 9, verses

1 to 3:

 

The main idea of Bhagavad Geeta is to directly teach the attainment

of brahman. Till now, karmayoga and dhyAna yoga have been discussed

as the sAdhana for the gradual attainment of krama mukti (this is

lokAntara, kAlAntara). This is for those of middling eligibility,

ones, who thru' their saguNa upAsana and dhyAna, attain krama mukti

thru the path of the Light. Now BhagavAn is saying he is going to

talk of sadyomukti - mukti not after the body falls, not removed in

space and time, but immediately experiencable. This is for the highly

eligible ones, who can tread the direct path to moksha.

 

Right in the begining of the 7th chapter BhagavAn had promised

Arjuna, he was going to teach him jnAna and vijnAna, knowing which

there is nothing left to be known. In the 8th chapter jnAna has been

discussed - jnAna being the way to understand and realize paramAtma

by dhyAna and constant meditation using shAstraic methods. Here in

the 9th chapter, bhagavAn is going to discuss vijnAna. To indicate

that this vijnAna is different from the previously mentioned jnAna is

why "tu" (but) has been used in the first verse.

 

This is a secret. UpAsana and dhyAna that were discussed previously

(8th chapter) is also a secret. paramAtma tatva is really a secret to

the people of the world, no matter how much we hear about it, it

still remains a secret (mystery). The vijnAna that is being discussed

here is even more of a secret than the previous. It is the secret of

all secrets. This is the knowledge of all knowledge. One who

understands this is the one who really understands. He is going to

transcend all misfortune, all misery. The jnAna of the previous

chapter is also a secret because it reveals a way to reach paramAtma

through constantly thinking about him, but that deliverance is in due

time. This vijnAna He is discussing here will give the sAdhaka

immediate and direct experience of the absolute that is forever and

beyond all suffering.

 

prAyashchittha and other sAdhana may alleviate immediate misery, but

do not have the capacity to prevent future misfortunes, but with the

dawning of AtmajnAna, all vAsanas are completely erased without a

trace. This being so great, Arjuna might have a question - Is it very

hard to attain it? Is it short-lived? BhagavAn says it can be

achieved with ease, but with devotion and a discriminating intellect,

and once achieved, it is forever. A person without devotion, can

attain anything except the paramAtma tatva. He is destined forever to

the transmigratory existence of samsAra.

Enough cannot be said about the importance of devotion (shraddha) in

any path to achieve paramAtma.

 

Namaste,

Savithri

[Guest guest]

I am a just a beginer and I am not well read in the scriptures, translations

or sanskrit so pardon me if this is a very basic point.

 

I have always found "guhya-tamam--the most confidential" being interpreted

as "secret" or "secret-of-secrets" but this is the first time that I saw the

word "mystery" being associated with this chapter/verse.

 

That got me thinking...isn't mystery a better word to describe it ?

 

Afterall, attainment of the Supreme is really a mystery *until * we are the

Supreme ....... or at least it is a mystery for me anyways ;-)

 

Maybe my presumption about "mystery" being a more apt word (compared to

"secret") is linked to how we use the word in English * and * the nature of

subject that is being discussed. Does the word guhya-tamam actually have the

connotation of the word "mystery" ? Can a sanskrit guru please enlighten me

about the actual meaning / connotation of the word guhya-tamam.

 

Maybe the reason why the word "secret" is used in all translations as

opposed to "mystery" is that a "secret" is something that is not shared...if

it is at all shared, it is only shared with extremely near and dear one (As

Arjuna is to Krishna). Compared to this "mystery" is something you actively

"explore". The secret is being told by Krishna ... The mystery is not being

unravelled by Arjuna.

 

Maybe that is why "secret" is the right choice here. Any thoughts ?

 

And lastly, Thank you Michael for the following : Openness is the key rather

than automatic rejection, contrariness and cynicism. Naturally it is true

that we are often at our most open when the devices and ploys that we

normally use are seen to be inadequate to the situation we are in. We are

empty and thus fit to recieve. Gratitude to the Master is a way of being

full and empty at the same time.

 

With all the mental baggage that we carry, just being fit to recieve would

be a true blessing.

 

Ram

 

(I share our Dear Moderator's name...If only I could claim the same about

his knowledge !)

>

> savithri_devaraj [sMTP:savithri_devaraj]

> Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:50 PM

> advaitin

> Re: Gita Satsangh; Chapter 9 Verses 1 to 3

>

...

> This is a secret. UpAsana and dhyAna that were discussed previously

> (8th chapter) is also a secret. paramAtma tatva is really a secret to

> the people of the world, no matter how much we hear about it, it

> still remains a secret (mystery).

...

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Ramaji:

 

The word 'mystery' is mystical where as the word secret is practical.

The experience of 'self-realization'is a mystery and the path

to 'self-realization' is a secret known to those who are qualified.

Our scriptures insist on 'qualification of a seeker' and the term

secret should be referred in the context. Scriptures do contain the

secret to the path of 'Self-realization' but only qualified students

will be able to recognize the codes. The Lord chose Sri Arjuna to be

lucky student (who is well qualified) to reveal the royal secret

of 'janam' and Vijnanam' and why He chose Arjuna is still a mystery!

 

Ram Chandran

 

Note: Honestly, the differences are semantic and they mean the same

with proper understanding!

 

 

advaitin, "Thommandra, Rama K." <Rama.Thommandra@a...>

wrote:

> I am a just a beginer and I am not well read in the scriptures,

translations

> or sanskrit so pardon me if this is a very basic point.

>

> I have always found "guhya-tamam--the most confidential" being

interpreted

> as "secret" or "secret-of-secrets" but this is the first time that

I saw the

> word "mystery" being associated with this chapter/verse.

>

> That got me thinking...isn't mystery a better word to describe it ?

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

Ram Chandranji (Post #14838) wrote:

.... with the assistance of Professor Panduranga (a Sanskrit

Scholar). I believe that there is an implied understanding that

the knowledge of Sadguna Brahman is from ......

--------------------------

 

Ram Chandranji, Is this the well-known Professor Prema Pandurang

from Madras? She was an English Professor in one of the Madras

Colleges, but voluntarily left off her job to devote her whole

time to spiritual matters and expositions. She is doing a

fantastic job of lecturing on religious subjects. Her devotion

is so transparent and contagious that you cannot but bow your

head in love and reverence to the Supreme Lord whose Spirit

reverberates in every one of her lectures. I heard her once or

twice. I learnt some unusual meanings of Gita Ch. IX - 18 in one

of those lectures. I will tell you all when we in the Satsangh

come to that sloka.

 

Secondly, may I correct a spelling slip in your post? It is not

Sadguna brahman but Saguna brahman. The slip itself makes sense

but the purpose of 'saguna' in contrast to 'nirguna' will be

lost then.

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

http://sbc.

[Guest guest]

Namaste ProfVK:

 

Professor Pandurang was a former Professor of Sanskrit at Bangalore

University (Upakulapati, poornaprajna Vidyapeetha).

 

I am not quite sure 'Sadguna' and 'Saguna' mean the same. The authors

actually use at various parts of Gita, 'Saguna Brahman,' 'Sadguna

Brahman,' and 'Sakara Brahman.' You are quite right that most of the

texts use 'Saguna Brahman' and I agree 'Saguna' is relatively

more acceptable than 'Sadguna' or 'Sakara.' I am hoping that our

expert, Sri Sunder will clarify this more thoroughly.

 

Let me take this opportunity and provide the following notes provided

in the CD as additional explanation to Verse 9.1:

 

The fault of Asuya consists in belittling the merits of men possessing

merits, finding fault with their virtues, reviling them and

attributing false blame to them. He who is entirely free from this

evil of lsuya by his very nature is called Anasuyu.

 

By calling Arjuna Anasuyu or uncarping, the Lord indicates that he

alone who has faith in Him, and is free from the fault-finding spirit,

is qualified to receive the instruction contained on this chapter;

while he who is lacking in faith, and full of the carping spirits, is

disqualified for it. In XVIII. 67 the Lord explicitly states that the

teaching of the Gita should never be imparted to one who finds fault

with Him.

 

The word Jnanam with the adjectives Idam and Vijnanasahitam stands

here for the knowledge of the Absolute, formless Brahma as well as

that of the qualified aspect of God with form and wihtout form along

with the secret of their respective glory and greatness, and the

instructions leading to that knowledge, contained in Chapters VII,

VIII and IX This knowledge has been described as 'Guhyatamam', 'the

most secret thing', because of all secrets in the world the knowledge

of the true character, love virtues, glory, greatness and splendour

etc., of the integral Divinity or Purusottama and the conception

of surrender to Him are the most secret of all. Teachings of a similar

nature embodied in verse 20 of Chapter XV and verse 64 of Chapter

XVIII as well have been called most secret by the Lord. The word

'evil' stands here for all forms of suffering and actions which are

responsible for the same, vices of all kinds, the shackles of worldly

existence in the form of birth and death, and the origin of them all,

viz., Ignorance. Being rid of the evil of worldly existence,

therefore, means securing complete and lasting immunity from all these

and realizing God, the embodiment of supreme Bliss.

 

More Details About the Multimedia CD:

The multimedia CD was produced by team of scholars headed by Dr. B.V.

Venkatakrishna Shastry at the International Sanskrit Research Academy

in Bangalore. The International Sanskrit Research academy is a

registered Trust under the Indian law as a private charitable trust.

Established in the year 1992, under the vision of the Dr. B.V.

Venkatakrishna Shastry, the academy has the blessings of the masters

and the acharya's. It has on its panel a number of scholars in various

fields as associates giving the directions for its activities. The

academy serves the needs of the culture and the religion. And the

Sanskrit language at various levels - by different means - of print

media publications, web publications, organizing seminars, activities,

competitions, conferences, interaction of the scholars and the like.

The academy runs on the support of the public funds and private

philonthrophers support and also from the funds generated by the

projects undertaken by it.

 

The academy undertakes the publication of cultural heritage content in

the digital media in the form of Interactive Multimedia CD-ROM's and

E-publications. The premier publication - BhagvadGita the Multimedia

book was brought out by the academy in the year 1995 and has been very

popular in the international market for more details go to website at

www.bhagavadgita.com. The old heritage documents in the form of Palm

Leaves - paper documents - the microfilm slides with cultural content

- books which are very old and are not finding commercial reprints -

paper manuscripts and handwritten documents - Voice traditions are

being preserved in the digital media. The standard print media books

are being redefined with up-graded content-design and user friendly

features suitable for the modern readers with extensive indexing,

hyperlinks, translations, notes, voice-overs, additional notes, ready

links to dictionaries and the like.

 

WEB SITE Address: http://www.sanskritresearch.com/

 

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> Namaste

>

> Ram Chandranji, Is this the well-known Professor Prema Pandurang

> from Madras? She was an English Professor in one of the Madras

> Colleges,

>

> Secondly, may I correct a spelling slip in your post? It is not

> Sadguna brahman but Saguna brahman. The slip itself makes sense

> but the purpose of 'saguna' in contrast to 'nirguna' will be

> lost then.

>

> praNAms to all advaitins

> profvk

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote:

> I am not quite sure 'Sadguna' and 'Saguna' mean the same. The

authors

> actually use at various parts of Gita, 'Saguna Brahman,' 'Sadguna

> Brahman,' and 'Sakara Brahman.' You are quite right that most of

the

> texts use 'Saguna Brahman' and I agree 'Saguna' is relatively

> more acceptable than 'Sadguna' or 'Sakara.'

 

Namaste,

 

This is the first time I have encountered the terms 'sadguna'

and 'saguna' as equivalent when applied to Brahman, and I assumed it

is a 'pAThAntara' (an alternative usage) in certain traditions in

South India. Sadguna would appear to imply a repository of all

auspicious qualities, and not an antonym of 'nirguna'.

 

It would be interesting to know if anyone has read this

pathantara in any of the Shankara Bhashyas.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste all

Sundarji,

 

your doubt: I am not quite sure 'Sadguna' and 'Saguna' mean the same.

---I was

reading some passage where in i could get some meaning of "SAGUNA BRAHMAN"

 

Literal meaning is : Brahman with attributes

 

they have given the meaning as "The Absolute conceived as the Creator,

Preserver, and Destroyer of the universe; corresponds to Isvara, or the Personal

God".

SADGUNA means good qualities. I think SADGUNA AND SAGUNA may not have same

meaning, there is much difference.

Am I right ?

 

Hari OM

 

Vishu

 

Properties Special Buy, sell, rent...your flat, or even post an ad

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste all.

 

Here is a bit of free-lance thinking which I hope will be permitted

at the unfettered level at which I am doing it.

 

I thought 9-1 through 9-3 are just introductory and skippable till

Mike-Ji and Ram-Ji (No. 2) opened the floodgates of thoughts with

their posts # 14853 and 14854.

 

A strange unpardonable idea then occurred to me. Why not re-parse 9-

1 as follows:

 

"IdaM guhyatamaM.

Anasuuyave! Pravakshayami te GYAnam viGYAnasahitaM, yajGYAtvA

mokshyase ashubhaat.h."

 

Why do we translate guhyatamaM as the secret of secrets, most secret

etc. (as quoted by Prof. Krishnamurthy-Ji in his post # 14843)? When

we say priyatama, the superlative is understandable as "most

beloved". But, there the suffix is tama and not tamaM. TamaM

indicates darkness. Guhya relates to concealed or hidden and has to

do with guh and guha (cave, cavern). Both together should then mean

concealed or lost in darkness.

 

I am in utter darkness. All I can see is only darkness. I do not

even know where I am. And then comes the light in the form of Ch. 9

and I realize all of a sudden that I am in the heart of a cave! I

realize that I was till then deluded. With the light, hope comes.

Since I now know that I am trapped in a cave, I also know that there

is a way out. The light will help me find the way to the light at

the end of the tunnel. I don't have to worry. My delusion is gone.

The real nature of my "idaM" (all that I experience) which was all

this while "guhyatamaM" has been revealed to me.

 

Tamam also means the ascending node of the Moon. In Indian

astrology/astronomy, this node (point) is known as planet (imaginary)

Rahu. An eclipse occurs when the Sun and the Moon are in one

straight line with this point. So, Krishana seems to say: "Oh

Arjuna ! The truth or real nature of idaM is concealed by tamaM as

the Sun or Moon is by Rahu in an eclipse.". Doesn't that connect

well with Sankara in his hymn to Lord DakshinAmUrti" "Rahugrasta

divAkarendu sadruso….."

 

Now let us go to anasUyave. I am sitting on Mike-Ji's shoulder. I

need the height of his thoughts to look beyond. Hope he wouldn't

mind it. Krishna has so far been calling Arjuna by good names – good

boy, smart boy, nice boy, strong boy etc. All of a sudden, He

changes style. Now He uses a name "anasUyave" in which a negative

tendency is negated – one who does not carp or cavil. Mike-Ji went

to the heart of it and found in it the unique qualification one

should have to grasp the message of Ch. 9. Great indeed. As rightly

pointed out by him, the word means more than "without malice"

or "without envy" or "without spitefulness". It covers all those who

raise petty objections, silly questions and given to obscurantism.

 

There was this guy – a highly qualified orthodontist, a Brahmin by

birth (caste) and I was discussing advaita with him hoping to find a

very interested listener and contributor. The topic was

objectification of the body. "The seer of the pot is different from

the pot; the seer of the body is different from the body,

therefore.". He was bewildered and thought I was crazy. He brought

in everything in his medical armoury – the functioning of the brain,

nervous system etc. etc. – to refute me and ultimately left me, his

invited guest of that evening, in utter contempt and despair! How

can we ever teach that guy Vedanta – his guhyatamaM solely relates to

the darkness in dental cavities?!

 

There is another variety. One of that ilk once went to a great

Vedantin and said. "See, Swamiji, I have read a lot and learnt a lot

of advaita. I can quote from the Upanishads and Bhagwat Geetha. I

just love Sankara. Only one doubt remains. What does

that "Poornamatha Poornamidam" mean? Isn't that a mathematical

absurdity?". I don't know what did the Swamiji do with that

Boanerges. Swamijis can't be violent like us, no?

 

In my teens, I had the annoying habit of harassing a very simple

sanyasin who used to give Vedanta lectures at our local temple. I

was an atheist and rationalist then – just because that was the

fashion for youngsters of those days in communist Kerala. I am

ashamed of my behaviour in retrospect. My objections to the Swami's

teachings at that time were not aimed at learning anything new but

at just being stylish and proving to the world, particularly to the

girls around, that I was more intelligent than my quarry.

 

And, today, a friend of mine tells me that he can find interesting

parallels between dialectical materialism and advaita and he is very

serious about doing research for a doctoral thesis in that area!

Sure, he will get his D.Phil. But, Ch. 9 will elude him forever!

 

These are all "cavilers and carpers". Ch. 9 is off-limits for them.

We have Krishna's word for it.

 

Incidentally, Dr. Vaman Shivram Apte has given a new meaning for

anasUya in his dictionary. It means one who evinces the highest type

of wifely devotion! AnasUya is a feminine name. We have our

Sakuntala's friend AnasUya immortalized by Kalidasa. I don't know

whom she married ultimately and how devoted she was to her husband.

That anyway is the story. For the sake of meaningful discussion, let

us divest the word of its femininity. Then, it would mean one who is

devoted to GYAnam like a chaste woman (Remember the five great chaste

women of Indian lore like Sita, Sati and SAvitri!) to her husband.

 

One who is not devoted to Atmavidya to the level Sita was devoted to

Rama or SAvitri was to SatyavAn would then naturally be an

ashraddadhaanaH or less than a shraddadhaanah, who remains eternally

stuck to the wheel or cycle of birth and death

(mRityusa.nsAravartmani) (9.3). For samsAra, I have taken the

meaning of birth because it is by birth that one happens to

experience samsAra. Besides meaning a way, road or path, vartman can

be a cycle or wheel. So, the undevoted or under-devoted who are

stuck to the wheel keep returning again and again (nivartante). Yeh

to bahut bada chakkar hein, bhai!

 

Now, in 9.2, why not we take another look at raajavidya. The

translation of "royal" does not satisfy me. The word rAj means to

glitter, shine, brighten or illuminate. So, here is a vidyA that

illuminates, enlightens. That goes well with the guhyatamaM in 9.1.

This vidyA verily is the light that comes to your rescue when you are

groping in the utter darkness of the cavern of samsAra! But the

light even when it shines so brilliantly is concealed to most

(rAjaguhyam) – definitely so to the cavilers and carpers! You shine

the light in their eyes. They refuse to see it. "Do you see the

light, boy?" You ask. The answer comes – "No!" (with a double,

vehement "n"), because they simply don't want to see.

 

A great teacher once said advaita is very simple if you have the

right focus. That right focus is Grace. That comes from shraddah –

not from caviling and carping. He used to say the search for truth is

just like looking for a needle in a haystack. Once the needle is

shown to you, you know how to return to it easily. Otherwise, you

just go crazy undoing the haystack and ultimately losing the needle

too! Then you exclaim in exasperation: "There is no needle at all.

I wasted my time. Let me go back to my Marx."

 

The Master Magician is performing the great Idam trick, the great

legerdemain . Go to the back of the stage after the show or meet Him

in his suite, He will be kind enough to tell you the truth of the

trick – the "rAjaguhyam rAjavidya" – the 9th Chapter. If you pay

attention without caviling or carping, you will get the message.

Then the trick as well as you are done. You exclaim with a

sigh: "Oh, it was all so simple. I know where the needle is!". You

don't then need Marx any more because for you there is no bound

proletariat to be liberated.

 

Oh boy! What an introduction by Vyasa!

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote:

> Chapter 9: The Yoga of Royal Knowledge and Royal Secret

> (RaajavidyaaraajaguhyayogaH)

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

Wonderful post, Madathil Nairji! What a free-lance thinking!

guhya-tamaM, anasUyave, and rAja-vidyA -- all these words are

now pregnant with further meanings, thanks to you, Mike-ji and

Ramji (No.2). I had a little doubt at the interpretation of

tamaM as darkness, since my grammar of the word tamas is not

clear. However I immediately restrained myself, because, I

would then become one of those 'cavilers and carpers'!

Thanks for a thought-provoking post.

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

http://sbc.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> Namaste

>

> Wonderful post, Madathil Nairji! What a free-lance thinking!

> guhya-tamaM, anasUyave, and rAja-vidyA -- all these words are

> now pregnant with further meanings, thanks to you, Mike-ji and

> Ramji (No.2). I had a little doubt at the interpretation of

> tamaM as darkness, since my grammar of the word tamas is not

> clear. However I immediately restrained myself, because, I

> would then become one of those 'cavilers and carpers'!

> Thanks for a thought-provoking post.

 

Namaste,

 

Shankara Gita Bhashya gives gopyatamaM to explain guhyatamaM.

tama is an indeclinable, and here it is used as an adjective for idaM

GYAnaM, in contrast to tamas [eg. tamaso mA jyotirgamaya | ]

 

Phonetic analogies should not be too freely played with,

especially in Sanskrit! Nobody would call Panini a caviller or carper!

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Thanks Nair-ji for a really thought-provoking post. To echo

ProfVK...guhya-tamaM, anasUyave, and rAja-vidyA -- all these words are now

pregnant with further meanings. But, I agree with Sunder-ji when he says

phonetic similarity should not be used to derive ("illegal") interpretations

- illegal from the point of view of sanskrit language.

 

BTW, What is it that defines the difference between a carper/caviller and a

genuine seeker who tries to expose holes in a philosophy with a view to

attaining a higher understanding - for self and for others. When does the

latter become the former ?

 

Ram2

 

(Nair-ji "christened" me Ram No.2 in his post and in order to to reduce

confusion, I have no problem in adopting that name to signoff posts to this

list)

>

> Madathil Rajendran Nair [sMTP:madathilnair]

> Friday, October 04, 2002 6:45 AM

> advaitin

> Re: Gita Satsangh; Chapter 9 Verses 1 to 3

>

> Namaste all.

>

> Here is a bit of free-lance thinking which I hope will be permitted

> at the unfettered level at which I am doing it.

>

> I thought 9-1 through 9-3 are just introductory and skippable till

> Mike-Ji and Ram-Ji (No. 2) opened the floodgates of thoughts with

> their posts # 14853 and 14854.

>

> A strange unpardonable idea then occurred to me. Why not re-parse 9-

> 1 as follows:

>

> "IdaM guhyatamaM.

> Anasuuyave! Pravakshayami te GYAnam viGYAnasahitaM, yajGYAtvA

> mokshyase ashubhaat.h."

>

> Why do we translate guhyatamaM as the secret of secrets, most secret

> etc. (as quoted by Prof. Krishnamurthy-Ji in his post # 14843)? When

> we say priyatama, the superlative is understandable as "most

> beloved". But, there the suffix is tama and not tamaM. TamaM

> indicates darkness. Guhya relates to concealed or hidden and has to

> do with guh and guha (cave, cavern). Both together should then mean

> concealed or lost in darkness.

>

> I am in utter darkness. All I can see is only darkness. I do not

> even know where I am. And then comes the light in the form of Ch. 9

> and I realize all of a sudden that I am in the heart of a cave! I

> realize that I was till then deluded. With the light, hope comes.

> Since I now know that I am trapped in a cave, I also know that there

> is a way out. The light will help me find the way to the light at

> the end of the tunnel. I don't have to worry. My delusion is gone.

> The real nature of my "idaM" (all that I experience) which was all

> this while "guhyatamaM" has been revealed to me.

>

> Tamam also means the ascending node of the Moon. In Indian

> astrology/astronomy, this node (point) is known as planet (imaginary)

> Rahu. An eclipse occurs when the Sun and the Moon are in one

> straight line with this point. So, Krishana seems to say: "Oh

> Arjuna ! The truth or real nature of idaM is concealed by tamaM as

> the Sun or Moon is by Rahu in an eclipse.". Doesn't that connect

> well with Sankara in his hymn to Lord DakshinAmUrti" "Rahugrasta

> divAkarendu sadruso....."

>

> Now let us go to anasUyave. I am sitting on Mike-Ji's shoulder. I

> need the height of his thoughts to look beyond. Hope he wouldn't

> mind it. Krishna has so far been calling Arjuna by good names - good

> boy, smart boy, nice boy, strong boy etc. All of a sudden, He

> changes style. Now He uses a name "anasUyave" in which a negative

> tendency is negated - one who does not carp or cavil. Mike-Ji went

> to the heart of it and found in it the unique qualification one

> should have to grasp the message of Ch. 9. Great indeed. As rightly

> pointed out by him, the word means more than "without malice"

> or "without envy" or "without spitefulness". It covers all those who

> raise petty objections, silly questions and given to obscurantism.

>

> There was this guy - a highly qualified orthodontist, a Brahmin by

> birth (caste) and I was discussing advaita with him hoping to find a

> very interested listener and contributor. The topic was

> objectification of the body. "The seer of the pot is different from

> the pot; the seer of the body is different from the body,

> therefore.". He was bewildered and thought I was crazy. He brought

> in everything in his medical armoury - the functioning of the brain,

> nervous system etc. etc. - to refute me and ultimately left me, his

> invited guest of that evening, in utter contempt and despair! How

> can we ever teach that guy Vedanta - his guhyatamaM solely relates to

> the darkness in dental cavities?!

>

> There is another variety. One of that ilk once went to a great

> Vedantin and said. "See, Swamiji, I have read a lot and learnt a lot

> of advaita. I can quote from the Upanishads and Bhagwat Geetha. I

> just love Sankara. Only one doubt remains. What does

> that "Poornamatha Poornamidam" mean? Isn't that a mathematical

> absurdity?". I don't know what did the Swamiji do with that

> Boanerges. Swamijis can't be violent like us, no?

>

> In my teens, I had the annoying habit of harassing a very simple

> sanyasin who used to give Vedanta lectures at our local temple. I

> was an atheist and rationalist then - just because that was the

> fashion for youngsters of those days in communist Kerala. I am

> ashamed of my behaviour in retrospect. My objections to the Swami's

> teachings at that time were not aimed at learning anything new but

> at just being stylish and proving to the world, particularly to the

> girls around, that I was more intelligent than my quarry.

>

> And, today, a friend of mine tells me that he can find interesting

> parallels between dialectical materialism and advaita and he is very

> serious about doing research for a doctoral thesis in that area!

> Sure, he will get his D.Phil. But, Ch. 9 will elude him forever!

>

> These are all "cavilers and carpers". Ch. 9 is off-limits for them.

> We have Krishna's word for it.

>

> Incidentally, Dr. Vaman Shivram Apte has given a new meaning for

> anasUya in his dictionary. It means one who evinces the highest type

> of wifely devotion! AnasUya is a feminine name. We have our

> Sakuntala's friend AnasUya immortalized by Kalidasa. I don't know

> whom she married ultimately and how devoted she was to her husband.

> That anyway is the story. For the sake of meaningful discussion, let

> us divest the word of its femininity. Then, it would mean one who is

> devoted to GYAnam like a chaste woman (Remember the five great chaste

> women of Indian lore like Sita, Sati and SAvitri!) to her husband.

>

> One who is not devoted to Atmavidya to the level Sita was devoted to

> Rama or SAvitri was to SatyavAn would then naturally be an

> ashraddadhaanaH or less than a shraddadhaanah, who remains eternally

> stuck to the wheel or cycle of birth and death

> (mRityusa.nsAravartmani) (9.3). For samsAra, I have taken the

> meaning of birth because it is by birth that one happens to

> experience samsAra. Besides meaning a way, road or path, vartman can

> be a cycle or wheel. So, the undevoted or under-devoted who are

> stuck to the wheel keep returning again and again (nivartante). Yeh

> to bahut bada chakkar hein, bhai!

>

> Now, in 9.2, why not we take another look at raajavidya. The

> translation of "royal" does not satisfy me. The word rAj means to

> glitter, shine, brighten or illuminate. So, here is a vidyA that

> illuminates, enlightens. That goes well with the guhyatamaM in 9.1.

> This vidyA verily is the light that comes to your rescue when you are

> groping in the utter darkness of the cavern of samsAra! But the

> light even when it shines so brilliantly is concealed to most

> (rAjaguhyam) - definitely so to the cavilers and carpers! You shine

> the light in their eyes. They refuse to see it. "Do you see the

> light, boy?" You ask. The answer comes - "No!" (with a double,

> vehement "n"), because they simply don't want to see.

>

> A great teacher once said advaita is very simple if you have the

> right focus. That right focus is Grace. That comes from shraddah -

> not from caviling and carping. He used to say the search for truth is

> just like looking for a needle in a haystack. Once the needle is

> shown to you, you know how to return to it easily. Otherwise, you

> just go crazy undoing the haystack and ultimately losing the needle

> too! Then you exclaim in exasperation: "There is no needle at all.

> I wasted my time. Let me go back to my Marx."

>

> The Master Magician is performing the great Idam trick, the great

> legerdemain . Go to the back of the stage after the show or meet Him

> in his suite, He will be kind enough to tell you the truth of the

> trick - the "rAjaguhyam rAjavidya" - the 9th Chapter. If you pay

> attention without caviling or carping, you will get the message.

> Then the trick as well as you are done. You exclaim with a

> sigh: "Oh, it was all so simple. I know where the needle is!". You

> don't then need Marx any more because for you there is no bound

> proletariat to be liberated.

>

> Oh boy! What an introduction by Vyasa!

>

> Pranams.

>

> Madathil Nair

> advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote:

> > Chapter 9: The Yoga of Royal Knowledge and Royal Secret

> > (RaajavidyaaraajaguhyayogaH)

>

>

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

> Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

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> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry for forgetting to delete the the text from my previous email... will

keep that in mind henceforth.

>

> Thommandra, Rama K. [sMTP:Rama.Thommandra]

> Friday, October 04, 2002 11:57 AM

> 'advaitin'

> RE: Re: Gita Satsangh; Chapter 9 Verses 1 to 3

>

>

> Thanks Nair-ji for a really thought-provoking post. To echo

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste all.

 

Thanks Prof. Krishnamurthy-Ji, Sunder-Ji and Ram(2)-Ji for your

responses.

 

I have no intention to question Panini or Sankara. How can I do that

with my limited knowledge of Sanskrit and Vedanta? I just re-parsed

9-1 differently. If there is an error in what I did, someone should

point the mistake out. Saying Sankara didn't say so is not an answer.

 

All the so many interpretations that we are reading here are not

exactly what Sankara said. We even took the liberty of seeing saguna

and nirguna Brahman in jnAna and vijnAna. We discussed that too in

very great detail. Did that have anything to do with Sankara!?

 

A famous poet of Kerala once had the fortune or misfortune of

attending a class where his own poetry was being taught. He was

astonished at the wealth of meanings the lecturer read into his poems

which he had not intended at all. Thus, if the Bhagwat Geetha can

still generate fresh thinking, it is a tribute to the literary and

philosophical genius of Vyasa. I don't think Sankara or Panini will

grudge that!

 

The suffix used with guhya is not tama (a superlative) but tamaM

which is darkness or the planet Rahu as per all available

dictionaries. There are no punctuation marks to tell us that

guhyatamam relates to jnAna and not to idam. To read the ordinary

meaning of here, now, at this point etc. to the very meaningful word

idam is to downgrade Vyasa, who would not have wasted that important

word so carelessly. By assigning the full meaning of idam as all

this universe, we are only paying a tribute to Vyasa. How I wish

Sankara had been with us today to pinch my ear if at all I have

wronged!

 

All this revives a very fond memory. Way back in the early sixties,

there was a Hindi lesson about some children playing in a park or

garden and the author had used the term "nandanvan" to describe that

place. As we all know, "nandanvan" is Lord Krishna's "vrindavan" and

that was the meaning our lecturer preferred and probably the author

meant. However, although not a very good student of the class, I had

the temerity to stand up and point in an altogether different

direction. My explanation was that the word meant a "jungle of

children" as nandan meant a son or child. You won't believe it – my

teacher got down from the dais, rushed towards me and hugged me. He

was so pleased with this fool's answer that he severely reprimanded

himself in front of the whole class for missing the meaning I found.

I wish at least he were with me again today!

 

So, gentlemen, till one of you can prove that I am grammatically

wrong in linking guhyatamam to idam, let my explanation also stand

with the thousand and one interpretations that we already have.

After all, I have not gone against the spirit of Sankara's advaita

in any way. In fact, my explanation has only elucidated the real

thrust of Ch. 9 more clearly. Isn't that the whole objective of this

electronic satsang?

 

Thanks Ram(2)-Ji for asking that wonderful question - how to

differentiate between a genuine seeker and a carper/caviler. Let us

leave this to the seeker and not sit in judgement of anybody. A

genuine seeker knows his genuineness. If he can ask questions

without a sense of conflict inside, then he is really genuine. The

test is at conscience level. Similarly, a carper knows what he is

really worth as I knew in my teens when I nagged that poor sanyAsin

with my atheistic "wisdom".

 

Pranams to all.

 

Madathil Nair

 

_

 

advaitin, "Thommandra, Rama K." <Rama.Thommandra@a...>

wrote:

>

> Thanks Nair-ji for a really thought-provoking post. To echo

> ProfVK...guhya-tamaM, anasUyave, and rAja-vidyA -- all these words

are now

> pregnant with further meanings. But, I agree with Sunder-ji when he

says

> phonetic similarity should not be used to derive ("illegal")

interpretations

> - illegal from the point of view of sanskrit language.

>

> BTW, What is it that defines the difference between a

carper/caviller and a

> genuine seeker who tries to expose holes in a philosophy with a

view to

> attaining a higher understanding - for self and for others. When

does the

> latter become the former ?

[Guest guest]

Dear Nair-ji.

 

I apologise if my choice of words led you to believe I thought less of your

interpretation because of my understanding / misunderstanding / presumption

about what is dictated by the dictates of Sanskrit Grammer. I can say with

all honesty I truly liked you interpretation. And I can add, in all

humility, it is certainly more than I could have thought of myself - so

thanks for sharing...You have certainly added a striking image to my

thoughts about the grandeur of this chapter. Thank You.

 

I also agree with what you said about genuine seekers and carpers/cavillers.

 

Since we are on the topic of "Secret-of-Secrets"...My understanding is this

secret is such that it cannot be communicated verbally. And yet the Lord

says "pravaksyami = I am speaking". I think in the scriptures, what is meant

is many a time more encompassing from what is actually said. And that gives

us the freedom to build ever more enlightening and newer interpretations.

 

To re-phrase your question : Isn't that the whole objective of any great

scripture ?

 

To lead you to a truth that is brighter, bigger, better than you ever

thought before ?

 

Ram(2)

 

>

> Madathil Rajendran Nair [sMTP:madathilnair]

> Friday, October 04, 2002 2:54 PM

> advaitin

> Re: Gita Satsangh; Chapter 9 Verses 1 to 3

>

> Namaste all.

>

> Thanks Prof. Krishnamurthy-Ji, Sunder-Ji and Ram(2)-Ji for your

> responses.

>

[Guest guest]

My dear noble devotee of Sri Sankara

Bhagavatpujyapada,

 

 

I am very happy to read your statement:

 

A

genuine seeker knows his genuineness. If he can ask

questions

without a sense of conflict inside, then he is really

genuine. The

test is at conscience level. Similarly, a carper

knows what he is

really worth as I knew in my teens when I nagged that

poor sanyAsin

with my atheistic "wisdom".

 

 

YOURS in Sri Sankara BHagavatpujyapada,

 

Chilukuri Bhuvaneswar

 

 

 

--- Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair

wrote:

<HR>

<html><body>

 

 

<

 

______________________

Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, TV.

visit http://in.tv.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair>

wrote:

If there is an error in what I did, someone should

> point the mistake out. Saying Sankara didn't say so is not an

answer.

>

> All the so many interpretations that we are reading here are not

> exactly what Sankara said. We even took the liberty of seeing

saguna

> and nirguna Brahman in jnAna and vijnAna. We discussed that too in

> very great detail. Did that have anything to do with Sankara!?

>

 

Namaste,

 

These are some reasons: I hope Sanskrit scholars will correct

my interpretation -

 

#14471

 

#14880

 

=================================================================

 

1. tamaM is not a legitimate word for darkness.*

 

2. tamas is a legitimate word for darkness.

 

3. tamaM is not in any of the declinations of tamas.

 

4. If guhya and tamaM are used as separate words, it has to be

possible to dissolve the compound word [samAsa].

 

5. idaM guhyatamaM cannot stand independently of the verb

pravakShyAmi, and tamaM being indeclinable, cannot be in the

accusative case.

 

6. Shankara has given alternative meanings where appropriate in other

places.

 

7. Gita has guhyatamaM in verses 15:20, 18:64, and guhyaadguhyataram

in 18:63 with exactly the same connotation of the superlative degree.

 

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*Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon

 

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Entry tamam

 

Meaning ind. so as to faint away Pa1n2. 6-4 , 93.

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ta4mas

Entry tamas

 

Meaning n. darkness , gloom (also pl.) RV. (%{-maH} , %{pra4NIta} ,

`" led into darkness , `" deprived of the eye's light or sight , i ,

117 , 17) &c. ; the darkness of hell , hell or a particular division

of hell Mn. iv , viii f. VP. ii , 6 , 4 Ma1rkP. xii , 10 ; the

obscuration of the sun or moon in eclipses , attributed to Ra1hu

(also m. L.) R. VarBr2S. v , 44 VarBr2. ii VarYogay. Su1ryas. ;

mental darkness , ignorance , illusion , error (in Sa1m2khya phil.

one of the 5 forms of %{a-vidjA} MBh. xiv , 1019 Sa1m2khyak. &c. ;

one of the 3 qualities or constituents of everything in creation [the

cause of heaviness , ignorance , illusion , lust , anger , pride ,

sorrow , dulness , and stolidity ; sin L. ; sorrow Kir. iii ; see %

{guNa} and cf. RTL ; p. 45] Mn. xii , 24 f. and 38 Sa1m2khyak. &c.)

RV. v. 31 , 9 R. ii S3ak. Ra1jat. v , 144 ; N. of a son (of S3ravas

MBh. xiii , 2002 ; of Daksha , i Sch. ; of Pr2ithu-s3ravas VP. iv ,

12 , 2) ; [cf. %{timira} ; Lat. {temere} &c.]

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder