Guest guest Posted October 6, 2002 Report Share Posted October 6, 2002 Dear all,. In Laghu Vakyavritti Shri Shankara says as follows: Savikalpaka Chidyoham Brahmaikam Nirvikalpakam Swatassiddhaahaa vikalpaaste nirodhavyaahaa prayatnatahaa. ------------ My doubt is : How can one say that "vikalpa'' is swatassiddha? Does this mean that "vikalpa" is a self created--self existing " vastu" ? Does this not defy logic? Hari Om! Swaminarayan Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2002 Report Share Posted October 6, 2002 Namaste Swaminarayanji, Could the meaning be something like the following?: Intelligence is influenced by its own imaginations. Brahman is the only thing which is not so influenced. Self-created imaginations have to be nipped in the bud by special efforts. praNAms to all advaitins profvk ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Namaste. Swaminarayan-Ji, your question takes us back again to adhyAsa the locus of which this List discussed in detail some time back under the title "Whence AdhyAsa?". "Swatassiddhaaha" belongs to the "anirvachanIya" territory and, therefore, shall not be taken literally. In my humble opinion, it has only been used for facility of expression. Pranams. Madathil Nair __________________ advaitin, Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote: > > Dear all,. > > In Laghu Vakyavritti Shri Shankara says as follows: > > Savikalpaka Chidyoham Brahmaikam Nirvikalpakam > > Swatassiddhaahaa vikalpaaste nirodhavyaahaa prayatnatahaa. > > ------------ > > My doubt is : How can one say that "vikalpa'' is swatassiddha? > > Does this mean that "vikalpa" is a self created--self existing " vastu" ? Does this not defy logic? > > Hari Om! > > Swaminarayan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 > __________________ > > advaitin, Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote: > > > > > My doubt is : How can one say that "vikalpa'' is swatassiddha? > > > > Does this mean that "vikalpa" is a self created--self existing > " > vastu" ? Does this not defy logic? > > > > Hari Om! > > > > Swaminarayan Vikalpa is the manifestation of duality - at Iswara level it is swaatasiddha in the sense as the spontanous projection of the world - Ch. Up. says - tad aikshata buhushyaam - that saw - since there is noting other than to see - but seeing involves a kind of vikalpa since there is a seer-seen duality and if one asks where this vikalpa comes in to picture - as Shree Nair correctly pointed out that one can either say it is anirvachaniiya or it is spontaneous as power of the Iswara and that power is swatasiddha or from bhakti point say as Leela of the Lord which is also swatasiddha. At the jiiva level - again non-apprehension which is swatasiddha - since it is beginningless lead to projection of the identity of I with individual upaadhi- body mind and intellect forming jiivaa. that identication is also spontaneously and one can attibtue avidya as the cause - actually it is an incendental cause since non-apprehension or lack of knowledge is not positive to cause something. Hence projection of the unreal and identification of with unreal occur spontaneously due to ignorance. These are all begining less since begining involves time concept which itself arises after vikalpa. By the by it is not a vastu - it is avastu. There is a sloka in Panchadasi related to this but I have do not have book with me - Camping in columbus. Hari OM! Sadananda ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 Namaste Sadanandaji writes: Vikalpa is the manifestation of duality - at Iswara level it is ........ There is a sloka in Panchadasi related to this but I have do not have book with me – ------------------------------- I think I have located it. But I do not fully understand it. It is actually two slokas, namely, Ch.1 – 49, 50: Savikalpasya lakShyatve lakShyasya syAd-avastutA / nirvikalpasya lakshyatvaM na dR^iShtaM na ca sanbhavi // Vikalpo nirvikalpasya savikalpasya vA bhavet / Adya vyAhatir-anyatra-anavasthA-tmAshrayAdayaH // The discussion here is about the mahA-vAkya ‘That Thou Art’. If the vastu (thing) referred to here is with attributes (sa-vikalpa) then it loses its status to Absolute Reality. If it is without attributes, such a thing is neither seen nor possible. This seems to be the meaning of the first sloka. This is actually a question raised by the opponent. The counter-question from the teacher is coming in the next sloka. This latter means: Let the change happen to either the changeless or the one with attributes. If it is the former, then it is self-contradictory, because for the changeless there cannot be any change. If it is the latter, then what changes? Does ‘the one’ change? Do the ‘attributes’ change? Or Does ‘the one with attributes’ change? The first case is not possible because, ‘The One’ which is ‘The One with attributes’ minus its attributes, cannot change, since it has no attributes. This is the case of nirvikalpasya vikalpaH. The second case where the vikalpa is on attributes, the change has to be relative to a standard state of attributes, and so each change will require a third attribute which is not changing. But because it is an attribute it has to have a locus. So there should be a fourth attribute on which the third one is relative. Thus an infinite regress happens. And so this case also cannot happen. The third case which is ‘the one with attributes’ should also not be possible. But here I need the help of experts like Sadanandaji. Is this the reference in PancadaSi you had in mind, Sadanandaji.? praNAms to all advaitins profvk ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: .. > > Is this the reference in PancadaSi you had in mind, > Sadanandaji.? > > praNAms to all advaitins > profvk > Prof. V.K Yes indeed - it is puurvapaksha and then siddhanta, where the objection is brought out, as you rightly stated, with vikalpa as duality. Would be able to expand it to the best as I can once I return to Washington, hopefully this weekend since I will have to teach these sloka-s in a week or two in my pancadasi class. Hari OM! Sadananda ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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