Guest guest Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Hari OM! Blessed Self, We are all in this dream bodies, and dream world because of our Vasanas. Actually When did this Vasana Start? Please have the view of all the Blessed Members. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Hari OM! Time is thought to be linear mostly in the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam, Christianity). Most other traditions consider time to be cyclical. The concern with "when did X begin" when the timescale is cosmic, is a linear-time question. In cyclical time-models, whatever happens has happened before... So the question loses a lot of its tug! Om! --Greg At 06:53 AM 10/10/2002 -0700, Krishna Prasad wrote: >Hari OM! > >Blessed Self, > >We are all in this dream bodies, and dream world because of our >Vasanas. Actually When did this Vasana Start? > >Please have the view of all the Blessed Members. > >With Love & OM! > >Krishna Prasad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Namaste Krishna Prasadji, This is a question which arises in the minds of all intelligent seekers. The easy answer to your question is: Vasanas were there even at the time of creation. The christian world would call it the original sin. According to Hindu belief there was no creation of vasanas. In Hinduism the concept of time is eternal. So even at the time of creation, there was a past. Creation is supposed to have taken place the first thing in the morning of Brahma's Cosmic Day. But there was a previous cosmic day, there was another one previous to it and so on. Each such cosmic day is called a kalpa. If you are interested in the duration of these cosmic days go to http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/41.html or http://www.indiaheritage.com/rendez/article1.htm So when Brahma creates, it is almost like a continuation and repetition of what he was doing in the previous kalpa. At the close of the kalpa, all the souls rest in him and with him in the Lord Absolute -- from which the same brahma along with his 'pending files' sprout in the morning of the next kalpa. Because brahma thus contains within himself the reservoir of all our vAsanAs and because it is through him the life of this world blossoms with all its multiplicity, he is called 'hiranya-garbha'. Regarding this hiranya-garbha there is a beautiful single sloka-prayer (for our possible adoption) in Isa-Upanishad, which brings out the concept of 'hiranya-garbha' (Golden Conception) in an excellent esoteric fashion. I shall devote a separate post on this lest you may be distracted now. So you will find the starting point of the vAsanAs is not traceable. vAsanAs are therefore termed as 'anAdi' - beginningless. praNAms to all advaitins profvk ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 ProfVKji has already provided an excellent answer to your question. Also Gregji's timely comment on `Cyclical nature of time' fully reflects the Vedic standpoint that there is no beginning and ending! The question on the origin of Vasana is generally raised by other philosophical schools as a sort of refutation of Advaitic contention. The implied question(s) behind the question on Vasana is (are): When did creation start? Or When did knowledge (also ignorance) start? According to Advaita philosophy at the Highest level of understanding of the Truth (paramarthika satta), neither Vasana nor Creation nor knowledge really exist. The best way to understand and appreciate Advaita philosophy is to become familiarized with Sankara's framework of understanding. Advaita distinguishes between three levels of reality: (1) Absolute Reality or the Highest Truth (Paramarthika satta), (2) Relative or Practical Reality (Vyavaharika satta) and (3) Apparent or Perception Driven Reality (Pratibhasika satta). The Highest Truth or Paramarthika satta only exists and the other two are negated by using the famous mathematical technique known as the Reductio ad absurdum (Disproof of a proposition by showing the absurdity of its inevitable conclusion.) The fundamental starting point of our problem is `ignorance' which induced wrong notions due to incorrect perception of the ultimate reality. Sankara explains beautifully using the classical example of `rope and the snake.' Snake is a mistaken identity of the rope get cleared after a thorough enquiry. All incorrect notions similarly get corrected through self-enquiry. The seeker spiritually progresses and experiences practical reality and finally experiences the highest truth. The seeker negates all notions and beliefs including the Vedanta philosophy. This awakening is like the dreamer waking up from a nightmare by the roaring and pouncing lion. When the dreamer wakes up, the dream world including the lion disappears. Sankara's Advaita Philosophy is said to be `like the dream lion (swapna simha vath).' For Advaitins, the entire Gita can be considered as illustrative description of Sankara's Advaita Philosophy in a conversational style. Arjuna starts with Pratibhasika satta and the Lord teaches him Vyavahrika satta and finally unfold the Pratibhasika satta. Actually the Lord's teaching is not for Arjuna but for our own spiritual growth and this may explain the importance of Gita Satsangh! Warmest regards, Ram Chandran Note: Those who have heard the Gita lectures of Swami Chinmayanandaji should be familiar with his punch lines during his discourses. In one of those discourses, someone from the audience send a handwritten note with the same question - "When did this Vasana Start?" Swamiji was big smile said, 'this is a great question' and requested the the person who wrote the question to come to the stage. When he went to the stage, Swamiji carefully folded the paper with the note and handed that to him and said -"Listen carefully, you have asked this important question and I know the person who has the answer for your question. Keep this paper at a safe place until you meet the Lord and hand it over to Him; He will provide you with the right answer." advaitin, Krishna Prasad <rkrishp99> wrote: > Hari OM! > > Blessed Self, > > We are all in this dream bodies, and dream world because of our > Vasanas. Actually When did this Vasana Start? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Hari OM! Blessed Ram Chandraji, Poojya Gurudev's explanation is always in a special and innovative way, the foot note about Swami Chinmayanadaji has given a boost to my enthusiasm. Thank You Ram Chandraji, for your answers. So we are like the waves in the Ocean, The Wave thinks that the Ocean is different from me. And suffer!! When we are in that, it is very difficult to perceive or think about it. Actually Waves Vasanas is really Ocean's Vasana only!! With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad --- Ram Chandran <rchandran wrote: > ProfVKji has already provided an excellent answer to your question. > > Also Gregji's timely comment on `Cyclical nature of time' fully > reflects the Vedic standpoint that there is no beginning and > ending! > The question on the origin of Vasana is generally raised by other > philosophical schools as a sort of refutation of Advaitic > contention. > > The implied question(s) behind the question on Vasana is (are): > When > did creation start? Or When did knowledge (also ignorance) start? > According to Advaita philosophy at the Highest level of > understanding > of the Truth (paramarthika satta), neither Vasana nor Creation nor > knowledge really exist. > > The best way to understand and appreciate Advaita philosophy is to > become familiarized with Sankara's framework of understanding. > Advaita distinguishes between three levels of reality: (1) > Absolute > Reality or the Highest Truth (Paramarthika satta), (2) Relative or > Practical Reality (Vyavaharika satta) and (3) Apparent or > Perception > Driven Reality (Pratibhasika satta). The Highest Truth or > Paramarthika satta only exists and the other two are negated by > using > the famous mathematical technique known as the Reductio ad absurdum > > (Disproof of a proposition by showing the absurdity of its > inevitable conclusion.) > > The fundamental starting point of our problem is `ignorance' which > induced wrong notions due to incorrect perception of the ultimate > reality. Sankara explains beautifully using the classical example > of `rope and the snake.' Snake is a mistaken identity of the rope > get > cleared after a thorough enquiry. > > All incorrect notions similarly get corrected through self-enquiry. > > The seeker spiritually progresses and experiences practical reality > > and finally experiences the highest truth. The seeker negates all > notions and beliefs including the Vedanta philosophy. This > awakening > is like the dreamer waking up from a nightmare by the roaring and > pouncing lion. When the dreamer wakes up, the dream world including > > the lion disappears. Sankara's Advaita Philosophy is said to be > `like > the dream lion (swapna simha vath).' > > For Advaitins, the entire Gita can be considered as illustrative > description of Sankara's Advaita Philosophy in a conversational > style. Arjuna starts with Pratibhasika satta and the Lord teaches > him Vyavahrika satta and finally unfold the Pratibhasika satta. > Actually the Lord's teaching is not for Arjuna but for our own > spiritual growth and this may explain the importance of Gita > Satsangh! > > Warmest regards, > > Ram Chandran > > Note: Those who have heard the Gita lectures of Swami > Chinmayanandaji > should be familiar with his punch lines during his discourses. In > one > of those discourses, someone from the audience send a handwritten > note with the same question - "When did this Vasana Start?" Swamiji > > was big smile said, 'this is a great question' and requested the > the > person who wrote the question to come to the stage. When he went to > > the stage, Swamiji carefully folded the paper with the note and > handed that to him and said -"Listen carefully, you have asked this > > important question and I know the person who has the answer for > your > question. Keep this paper at a safe place until you meet the Lord > and > hand it over to Him; He will provide you with the right answer." > > advaitin, Krishna Prasad <rkrishp99> wrote: > > Hari OM! > > > > Blessed Self, > > > > We are all in this dream bodies, and dream world because of our > > Vasanas. Actually When did this Vasana Start? > > > > > > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Hari OM! Blessed Gregji, Thank You for your view on the Vasana I had to ask this Vasana question! With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad --- Gregory Goode <goode wrote: > Hari OM! > > Time is thought to be linear mostly in the Abrahamic religions > (Judaism, Islam, Christianity). Most other traditions consider > time to be cyclical. The concern with "when did X begin" when the > timescale is cosmic, is a linear-time question. In cyclical > time-models, whatever happens has happened before... So the > question loses a lot of its tug! > > Om! > > --Greg > > At 06:53 AM 10/10/2002 -0700, Krishna Prasad wrote: > >Hari OM! > > > >Blessed Self, > > > >We are all in this dream bodies, and dream world because of our > >Vasanas. Actually When did this Vasana Start? > > > >Please have the view of all the Blessed Members. > > > >With Love & OM! > > > >Krishna Prasad > > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 The school I used to attend taught of the four kalpa mentioned by ProfVK and claimed that in the first kalpa of each (day of) creation - the 'Golden Age' - there is no ignorance i.e. no vAsanA-s. What happens then is that someone, somewhere (already an advaitic contradiction) for some unknown reason suddenly wants something for himself. I.e. ahaMkAra comes into existence and exerts its ugly influence; identification and attachment takes place. Then follow desire, anger (and death) as described so graphically in the gItA. All of this ties in nicely with the Christian idea of original sin. As far as providing an 'explanation' for the origin of vAsanA-s, it must be as good as any. I wondered, though, is it a convenient mixing of Hindu myths with Christianity or does it have some authentic origin (e.g. Kashmir Shaivism or saMkhya)? Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Namaste. You placed your finger right at the weakest point. All this talk about the beginning of vAsanAs/adhyAsa is like a dog going round and round to get at the eternally bothering flea on its tail. The ultimate answer to it in any mundane, mortal system of metaphysical brainstorming cannot be anything better than anirvachanIya, which, alas, is never acceptable to questioning minds. However, the triumph and difference of advaida lies in the fact that it offers a solid methodology to undo the error that creates the golden lid (hiranmaya pAtra) which hides Truth. What lies beneath the lid is understood and appreciated at a personal level and, at that level, there are no more any lids, Lists, other advaitins, talking and all these various thoughts about vAsanas. Nevertheless, those interested in academic research can look for an explanation and possibly arrive at a synthesis of oriental and occidental myths, Kashmir Shaivism, SaMkhya etc. Best regards. Madathil Nair _________________________________ advaitin, "Dennis Waite" <dwaite@a...> wrote: What happens then is that > someone, somewhere (already an advaitic contradiction) for some unknown > reason suddenly wants something for himself. ............................................................. All of this ties in nicely with the Christian idea of original > sin. As far as providing an 'explanation' for the origin of vAsanA- s, it > must be as good as any. I wondered, though, is it a convenient mixing of > Hindu myths with Christianity or does it have some authentic origin (e.g. > Kashmir Shaivism or saMkhya)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Namaste. Thanks to Michael Reidy (Post # 14992) we have the right extracts from Sankara Bhashya to confirm the Vedantin's point of view that vAsanAs have no beginning. Thank you Michaelji. praNAms to all advaitins profvk ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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