Gita Satsangh: Chapter 9 - Verses 7 to 10

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

We go on to verses 7 to 10 of the ninth chapter. I am posting

these from Sri Ram Chandranji's files:

 

sarva-bhuutaani kaunteya prakR^iti.n yaanti maamikaam.h .

kal{}pakshaye punas-taani kal{}paadau visR^ijaamyaham.h .. 7

 

"Arjuna, at the end of every Kalpa (Brahma's Day) all beings

enter My Prakrti (the Prime Cause) and at the beginning of every

Kalpa, I bring them forth again."

 

prakR^iti.n svaam-avashhTabhya visR^ijaami punaH punaH .

bhuuta-graama-mimaM kR^its{}nam-avashaM prakR^iter-vashaat.h ..

8

 

"Laying hold of My nature, I bring forth, again and again, this

whole multitude of beings subject to the influence of their own

nature."

 

na cha maa.n taani karmaaNi nibadh{}nanti dhana.njaya .

udaasiinavad-aasiinam-asak{}ta.n teshhu karmasu .. 9

 

"Arjuna, those actions, however, do not bind Me, unattached as I

am to those actions and remain indifferent."

 

maya-adhyaksheNa prakR^itiH suuyate sacharaacharam.h .

hetuna-anena kaunteya jagad-viparivartate .. 10

 

"Arjuna, with me as the supervisor, Nature brings forth the

whole creation, both animate and inanimate; it is due to this

cause that the wheel of Samsara is revolving."

 

Easy references;

 

The Gita Supersite http://www.gitasupersite.org/ contains most

of the commentaries including commentaries in many languages.

 

For Gita Dhyana Shlokas/Mantras and Mahatmya

 

/message/advaitin/6987

 

Adi Shankara's commentary, translated by Swami Gambhirananda, at

URL:

advaitinGita/Shankara1/gmbCH9.htm

 

Swami Chinmayananda's commentary at URL:

advaitinGita/Chinmaya/COMM9.HTM

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

This post will concentrate on verses 7 and 8.

The key words in terms of content are prakR^iti, kalpa ,

visR^ijAmi, and avashaM.

prakR^iti, we know, from the 7th chapter, is of two kinds; parA

(higher, superior) and aparA (lower, inferior). Krishna is

talking of the lower prakR^iti here which is an abstract

integral complex of three strands, satva, rajas and tamas. This

is wherein all matter finally dissolves. But this is where also

all animates finally rest in a latent form. This latency is with

respect to their vAsanAs. Looked at this way, the lower

prakR^iti itself has two facets. One, the three stranded

complex which is, in a sense, the abstract seed from which all

matter will rise again in the next cycle of creation, and two,

the abstract receptacle (store, treasure, reservoir) of all

vAsanAs of all individuals, from which the Creator Brahma, in

the next cycle, draws forth, (as and when needed), during his

creation of animates.

So when the Lord says ‘visR^ijAmi’ twice, once in verse 7 and

once again in verse 8, he means he ‘causes’ the creation both of

the inanimate and the animate, -- the reference in these slokas

is to the animate -- the latter with all their vAsanAs. This

happens at the beginning of every kalpa. ‘kalpa’ as we have

mentioned already in #14544, is the total period of one ‘day’

of Brahma in the grand cosmic cycle. This one ‘day’ is

equivalent to 4.32 billion human years. At the beginning of

this the Lord ‘releases’ (visR^ijAmi) everything, including

Brahma the Creator, for further action by Brahma. (This action

itself in the form of Creation, by Brahma, has to be ‘generated’

by the Lord. We will talk about this when we come to sloka 10 in

my further posts). At the end of this kalpa, everything goes

back, including the Creator Brahma, and ‘rest’ in Him – all

inanimate in prakR^iti, the Energy latent in the Absolute, and

all animate in the form of their latent vAsanAs, in the grand

reservoir of vAsanAs. This is the grand reservoir which is

called ‘hiraNmaya pAtra’ (The Golden Vessel) in the famous verse

of Isopanishad, elaborated at length in my post #14964.

The word ‘avaShTabhya’ pre-positioned to ‘visR^ijAmi’ is

significant. It means ‘taking control of’. Thus ‘prakR^itiM

svAM avaShTabhya’ appearing here should be contrasted with

‘prakRîtiM svAM adhiShTAya’ in sloka 6 of Chapter 4. There

the Lord is talking of His own manifestation. So when He

manifests He ‘subjugates’ or ‘adorns’ prakR^iti and appears.

In the present context of chapter 9, He ‘creates’ the beings by

‘taking control of prakR^iti’. Here there is a dynamic control.

There it is a sAtvic adoption!

Again let us compare the expression ‘sarva-bhUtAni prakR^itiM

yAnti’ appearing here with ‘prakR^itiM yAnti bhUtAni’ of sloka

33 of the third chapter.

The word ‘yAnti’ of III-33 means ‘anugacchati’, ‘follows’. All

beings follow their own prakR^iti, their own nature. Here the

facet of prakR^iti that is referred is the individual ‘store of

vAsanAs’.

The word ‘yAnti’ of IX – 7 means ‘go back’, ‘return’. They

return to their latent state. Here the facet of prakR^iti that

is referred is both the higher and the lower, because what goes

back is both the spark of the soul and its latent vAsanAs.

Now we come to the word ‘avashaM’. The beings have no control of

themselves. They are in the control of their prakR^iti. Recall

III – 33. They have to go and come in this fashion for ages,

until the vAsanAs are exhausted, by experience - which will

prove to be impossible – but certainly by consumption in the

Fire of Knowledge.

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site

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[Guest guest]

"Arjuna, at the end of every Kalpa (Brahma's Day) all beings

enter My Prakrti (the Prime Cause) and at the beginning of every

Kalpa, I bring them forth again." (9.7)

 

"Laying hold of My nature, I bring forth, again and again, this

whole multitude of beings subject to the influence of their own

nature." (9.8)

 

"Arjuna, those actions, however, do not bind Me, unattached as I

am to those actions and remain indifferent." (9.9)

 

"Arjuna, with me as the supervisor, Nature brings forth the

whole creation, both animate and inanimate; it is due to this

cause that the wheel of Samsara is revolving." (9.10)

____________________

 

Namaste all.

 

Overheard the following conversation between Krishna 2002 (K02) and

Arjuna 2002 (A02) in an overcrowded peak-hour Mumbai local train

amidst the ear-breaking crescendo of Hari bhajans by a group of other

passengers:

______________

 

K02: What are you?

A02: A survey engineer, Sir.

K02: Are you married?

A02: Yes. With two children.

K02: Do you remember the exact time of your marriage?

A02: Why? Of course. At 10:40 hrs. IST, 21st August 1980,

Mahalaxmi Temple, Mumbai.

K02: That is more than enough. Can you plot that event on a

coordinated drawing? You are familiar with survey drawings, no?

A02: Yes. I can do that. But the problem is the time. If X and Y

axes take the latitude and longitude coordinates, I am left with the

year/day/time for which I need a third axis. OK. I think I can solve

that problem on a PC. I will have a three dimensional plotting for

the event. Will that be ok, Sir?

K02: No. Not at all. You are talking about a terrestrial drawing.

We have to think universal, boy. I want you to plot that event on a

universal drawing.

A02. How is that possible, Sir? OK. Let me think. They say the

universe began with a Big Bang and is expanding. As a result of

studies carried out over the last about 150 years, scientists have

concluded that the bang occurred 15 billion years ago

(http://members.tripod.com/~ssscott/BigBang.html). So, it should be

theoretically possible to construct a drawing for the known universe

by locating the position of that point where the bang could have

occurred relative to our Earth. We will also incorporate

mathematical corrections to account for related observations like the

bending of light as it passes through gravitational fields etc. But,

that drawing will be of too large a scale and too approximate to plot

an insignificant terrestrial event of a mortal's wedding. Besides,

the margin of error will run to millions of years.

K02: Don't worry. I need that universal drawing although its

creation is just a theoretical possibility. Now, can you plot 11/9 on

the same drawing?

A02. Why not? That also is theoretically possible, Sir. There will

be two plottings close to each other for the two WTC crashes.

K02: I am happy you are so very imaginative and helpful. Now, I

would like you to do the same thing for the crab nebula in the

zodiacal constellation Cancer

(http://freespace.virgin.net/d.finn/crab-nebula.html).

A02. I have seen that nebula on a clear night, Sir, when I was just

a boy in the village. It is very difficult to see it with all these

city lights around us. It is an exploding supernova. I think I can

refer to astronomical works and find the year the explosion was first

noticed from earth. I think it is 1054 AD. If I can get hold of the

distance between the nucleus of the nebula and earth, I can find the

time difference and estimate how long back the explosion had occurred

before it was first noticed from earth. Thus, an approximate three

dimensional plotting will be possible. Here, the margin of error

will be less than in the previous examples but still will run into

millions of years.

K02: Good. Now, you mentioned the Big Bang - the primordial

explosion that resulted in this universe of ours.

A02: It is a wonderful theory, Sir, which has stood the tests of

time. Most, if not all, later scientific findings have proved its

validity.

K02: Great. Looks like you are very knowledgeable. OK. Plot the

Big Bang for me.

A02: Logically, that should be possible. But that won't make any

sense. I have no values for the X,Y, Z axes because at the time of

the Bang, there was no space and time. Am I crazy, why am I

saying "at the time of the Bang"? There was no time then.

K02: Then, can I say that the plotting would be 0,0,0 on your three-

dimensional drawing?

A02: Yes. That is about acceptable to me, although I am a little

confused here.

K02. Is 0,0,0 Consciousness which is spacelessness and timelessness?

A02. I have to guard myself here against committing an

epistemological error, Sir. I would rather call it "nothing" because

the value "0" normally denotes "nothing".

K02: That is great thinking on your part. 0,0,0 is really nothing.

Nothing gets sustenance from something. "0" exists because it is

flanked by 1 and (–)1. It is something objectified, understood and

appreciated. So, it cannot be Consciousness. 0,0,0 is because

Consciousness IS.

A02: I got it, Sir. But your line of thinking opens up another

avenue. You mentioned the figure (–)1 above. Then, another three-

dimensional drawing of minus values projecting in the opposite

direction from 0,0,0 is possible. Is that the anti-universe they are

so very much talking about these days?

K02: May be or may not be. These are theoretical possibilities.

That looks like a mirror image, isn't it?

A02. Yes, Sir. How wonderful! There is an anti-K02 and an anti-A02

travelling out there in an anti-local train listening to anti-Hari

bhajans.

K02: You are being profane. Be careful. Do you now realize that we

can have several universes projecting out in several directions from

0,0,0. Can you just guess how many we can have?

A02: An infinite number of them, Sir. Let us leave it there. It is

a mathematician's nightmare.

K02: Now, do you know why they called Consciousness

sarvaprapanchanirmAtri (the maker of all universes) and

anekakotibrahmandajanani (the mother of hundreds of millions of

universes)? Can you guess where She is sitting?

A02. From what you said so far, She is not located anywhere but She

is everywhere. She virtually presides over everything as Lord

Krishna said.

K02: I think we digressed a bit here from our main topic, the Big

Bang. An event needs a place and time to occur. At the time of the

Big Bang there was neither. Are we to assume then that the explosion

has not really occurred?

A02: You are trying to trap me, Sir. Nevertheless, I should think

you are right. No Big Bang as an event could have occurred.

K02: Now, in the BG, Lord Krishna says there is a dissolution of the

universe at the end of a kalpa. What does He mean then? The

universe has not been created in the first place because there has

never been a Big Bang. How can we then have a dissolution?

Dissolution of an uncreated universe? Doesn't that sound funny?

A02: Yes, indeed. If there is a dissolution at all, then the values

for that dissolution again is 0,0,0 because at dissolution again

there is no space and time! I will have to plot the Bang as well as

dissolution at the same point, i.e. 0,0,0! There is nothing first,

then something seems to crop up and then all of a sudden there is

nothing. And then they say I got married and two very tall

buildings crashed to the ground in the middle of those two nothings.

K02: You are really intelligent. You have gone steps ahead of me.

An event is an event because it is flanked by two events. Your

marriage is because there was an unmarried you before and a married

you now. Your marriage could not have resulted from nothing. So,

how can we validate the sequence of events called the universe if it

has nothingness on either end?

A02: I am with you, Sir.

K02: Now, my friend, define a kalpa for me.

A02. Dictionaries say it is one day of Brahma equal to hundreds of

millions of human years. I can't understand that because if that is

the case with me, I will die of starvation billions of times between

my breakfast and lunch. To my mortal reckoning even a century's

longevity is an unimaginable luxury. Then, how can I talk about a

day that is the size of many hundred million years!

K02: Looks like you need some help here. What is a day for you?

A02: For us Indians, it is udayAt udayam vAram, i.e. from sunrise to

the next sunrise is a day, which is approximately 24 hours. The two

sunrises are two different happenings or events.

K02: From Lord Krishna's words, we can assume that one kalpa is the

time difference between creation and dissolution, two things which

cannot take place as events. Then that should be the difference

between the Big Bang and dissolution. Why don't you calculate and

find out?

A02: That is again funny, Sir. That is 0 minus 0. Anything minus

anything is 0. So, the duration of a kalpa is 0, Sir.

K02: Don't call it 0. That would be too cruel. Understand only

that a kalpa is a thing that seems to exist but is not really

existent on enquiry. The same applies to your Big Bang, your Big B,

who recently completed sixty big years in this great kalpa, all the

universes and their most eagerly awaited dissolution. They are there

and they are not there. Understand that a kalpa can also be the

seeming period of wakefulness when things seem to happen between two

deep slumbers. It can also be the seeming period between the two

blanks flanking each of your fleeting thoughts. It does not make any

difference whichever way we look at it.

A02: Yes. Now I know why Krishna said He is not in any actions.

The big riddle of creation is only seeming. How can He be there in

something that is only seeming? How can water be there in the

mirage? But the riddle cannot be without Him. I remember Bhagwan

Ramana has said something to this effect.

K02: Yes. That is the opening verse of his Upadesa Saram:

karthurAjnaya prApyate phalam

karma kim param karma tajjadam.

Without His orders the Universe cannot work. But He is not involved

in it at all. All events and actions are just insentient in reality.

A02: Then, why all this talk about vAsanAs and their binding nature,

Sir?

K02: It is just another way of looking at the riddle. VasanAs are

part of the riddle. One who cannot see through the game is bound by

them just as one who jumps into a river is carried away by its

currents whereas one who witnesses its beauty from the banks remains

unaffected.

A02: What then is the solution, Sir?

K02: Read the Bhagwath Geetha. Realize the nature of the world.

Understand how you can perform unbinding actions and, thereby, burn

your vAsanAs in the fire of Knowledge. You can also go to Sankara

Netralaya and get your focus changed.

A02: That is a famous eye hospital in Chennai, Sir. Why do you want

me to go there?

K02: I didn't mean the eye hospital, boy. An Indian boy of South

India from a place called Kaladi in present-day Kerala once traversed

the Indian sub-continent by foot and climbed the sarvajnapeeth

(status of the knower of all knowledges) in our currently disputed

territory of Kashmir. He has written many books and set up a

philosophical system to shift the focus of the inner eye. He is

virtually a karunAlayam (abode of kindness). I am asking you to go

to that Alayam and shift the focus of your inner eye so that you can

appreciate this riddle of the universe.

A02: Thank you, Sir. (Pointing at the bhajanwallas screaming at the

top of their voice) Then, what are these guys doing here, Sir?

K02: They are calling me thinking that I am out there. They want to

make sure that they are heard. Being not as fortunate as you, they

are yet to realize that the outside is really inside. Let us accept

them with our full heart as this train has accepted you, me, them and

many other passengers irrespective of their creeds and beliefs and is

moving ahead on its designated path.

A02: My station has come, Sir. I have to get down. Thanks for a

nice evening.

K02: Go home. Have a nice dinner and rest. Don't, however, forget

that netrAlaya thing I mentioned.

______________________________

 

Pranams to all advaitins. I beg your forbearance.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

This is on Verse 10.

mayA-dhyakSheNa prakR^itiH sUyate sa-carAcaraM /

hetunA-nena kaunteya jagad-viparivartate //

 

Under me as supervisor, nature produces the moving and the

unmoving; because of this, O Arjuna, the world revolves.

 

Two important words here are ‘adhyakSheNa’ and ‘hetunA’. These

words establish that the Lord is the ‘nimitta-kAraNa’

(=efficient cause) for the whole universe and its vibrations.

That He is also the ‘upAdAna-kAraNa’ (=material cause) is the

contention of advaita. But that point is not currently relevant.

That He is the Agent, Supervisor or the efficient cause is

accepted by all religions. But the underscoring of this at this

point by the Gita is because of the previous sloka where He has

said that nothing affects Him and He is indifferent, as it were.

 

I enjoyed reading the following paragraph of Swami

Venkatesananda’s commentary in this context.

 

<Here is a puzzle. I am your guest and we both go to the sea for

a swim. I am attacked by a shark. The shark is happy. I yell

with pain. You are worried. A few soft-hearted women weep.

Others, disdainfully turn their faces away. A photographer is

busy taking the ‘picture of the year’. Now, we know that God

dwells in all. How does He feel about the incident?

He is unaffected, for the simple reason that He does not

identify himself with any of the actors in this drama. It does

not mean that he is cruelly indifferent to the pains and

sufferings of man. He is totally free from ignorance and false

identification and so is free from these pains and sufferings.

Man too, by identifying his self with God can thus free himself.

This identification is not a mental activity but the

identification of the reality – the homogeneity or the unity in

the universe (which is not obvious) – after the cessation of

mental activity. That is the goal of yoga.>

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now

http://hotjobs./

[Guest guest]

Namaste Prof. Krishnamurthy-Ji and all.

 

Will you kindly permit me to reframe Swami Venkatesanada's puzzle

where I am forced to look at it from the point of view of a pure

advaitin?

 

I am out with my friend "A" for a swim. Here, the swimmer is not the

real "I". He is I(1) who encompasses my false identity with my body,

mind and intellect. The real "I" is the Consciousness presiding over

the situation and because of Whom the whole situation unravels.

 

Shark "B" gets hold of I(1). Women "C" and "D" weep.

Photographer "E" is busy with his camera. "A" is the worried friend

who, like all good friends, scampers to the safety of the shore.

 

In this scenario, I(1), "A", "B", "C", "D", and "E" are because "I"

(Consciousness) am. Without "I" the scenario cannot simply be.

 

The real "I", because of whom the situation has developed is not

anywhere in the scene. He remains unaffected. For Him, the

ferocious killer shark "B", the wailing and dying I(1), the

worried "A", the weeping "C", "D" and camera-happy "E" are the same.

 

When I(1) realizes this, his delusion is gone. The dwaita (duality)

of the scene comprising I(1) and "A" to "E" fuses into advaita (non-

duality), the One, who is Himself, the "I", the Lord. I(1) then

doesn't wail any more. He laughs instead because he knows that like

he was not in the happenings of his dream while he was comfortably on

his bed, he cannot be in the mouth of the shark either.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

__

 

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> I enjoyed reading the following paragraph of Swami

> Venkatesananda's commentary in this context.

>

> <Here is a puzzle. I am your guest and we both go to the sea for

> a swim. I am attacked by a shark. The shark is happy. I yell

> with pain. You are worried. A few soft-hearted women weep.

> Others, disdainfully turn their faces away. A photographer is

> busy taking the `picture of the year'. Now, we know that God

> dwells in all. How does He feel about the incident?

> He is unaffected, for the simple reason that He does not

> identify himself with any of the actors in this drama. It does

> not mean that he is cruelly indifferent to the pains and

> sufferings of man. He is totally free from ignorance and false

> identification and so is free from these pains and sufferings.

> Man too, by identifying his self with God can thus free himself.

> This identification is not a mental activity but the

> identification of the reality – the homogeneity or the unity in

> the universe (which is not obvious) – after the cessation of

> mental activity. That is the goal of yoga.>

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Nairji, I appreciate your precision in the symbolism that you

gave (post #15123) to Venkatesananda’s analogy, regarding verse

9.

 

I continue my remarks (post #15118) on verse 10.

 

This profound Truth that the Lord God is the Agent for

everything in the Universe is difficult to digest for

rationalists who would like to believe that Man’s intelligence

is being underplayed by this kind of philosophy.

 

In order to dwell on this point, let me quote two lines from the

Bhagavatam. These two lines occur in what is called

‘Dhruva-stuti’ (The Song of Praise by Dhruva, the young boy).

Circumstances brought him into a situation where he, as a

five-year old, performed a tortuous ‘tapas’ (penance) for five

and a half months at the end of which the Lord appeared before

him physically. The boy did not know what to say except to fall

at His feet. The Lord touched him on his right cheek with His

Divine Conch. And lo and behold, words poured forth from him in

the form of twelve beautiful verses, which, together constitute

the essence of the entire Upanishadic philosophy. This piece of

twelve verses is called ‘Dhruva-stuti’. I quote two lines from

the third verse in this piece. (For a full account see my

webpages starting from

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/92.html )

 

tvad-dattayA vayunayedaM acaShTa vishvaM

supta-prabuddha iva nAtha bhavat-prapannaH /

 

Tr.:It is by the wisdom granted by You, O Lord, even the Creator

created this universe. Having taken refuge under You, he woke

up, as it were, from sleep (and saw this universe as it was

before his sleep).

Here the reference is to the truth contained in our Gita verse:

IX – 7, where the Lord says that everything in the universe

(including Brahma the Creator) dissolves in Him at the end of

the kalpa and at the beginning of the next kalpa He brings them

forth. Between one kalpa (Cosmic Day – that is, one day of

Brahma the Creator) and the next, the intervening period is

Brahma’s ‘sleep’. So he (the same Brahma -- he is the only

person who continues from the previous cosm ic day to the

present cosmic day) ‘wakes up’, as it were, from his sleep the

next morning, but he has to do his job all over again. For

instance, he has to create this universe once again. Who gives

him the strength and skill to perform the job of creation? It is

the Lord. It is only by the Lord’s Grace, even Brahma the

Creator creates this world just as he did the previous Cosmic

Day!

‘sUryA-candramasau dhAtA yathA pUrvaM akalpayat’,

says the Veda, meaning: The Creator brought forth the Sun and

the Moon exactly as in his previous day. The memory of the

previous day and his previous skills was given to him by the

Lord. Without that memory ‘given’ by the Lord the Creator would

be a nonentity. That is why Dhruva says ‘tvad-dattayA vayunayA’

in his verse above. Remember, the boy Dhruva is speaking by the

Grace of the Divine touch that blessed him with all knowledge.

The boy himself begins his verse by saying ‘It is You, O Lord,

who is speaking through my voice!’.

 

These words ‘tvad-dattaya’ (= By-you-given) is wonderfully

significant for our understanding of Gita IX – 10. This is what

it conveys by ‘mayA-adhyakSheNa’. Even to Brahma, the vAsanA of

the previous day has to be given by the Lord. To explain this in

a mundane manner, one can say as follows. A child is born. What

does the new-born child do when it is hugged to the breast of

the mother for its first breast-feeding? The child somehow gets

to know how to suck his life-giving milk from his mother. Who

gives the child this knowledge or the skill? It is the vAsanA of

the previous life! Science may say that it is the work of one

particular gene in the child’s body. Well, who gives that

property to that gene? As Science advances in its probing of the

universe it may come up with some material more fundamental than

a gene and explain that it is because of such and such a

property of this ‘fundamental’ property of matter, this gene has

this quality. Well, again we may ask the question: Who gave that

unique property to that ‘fundamental’ piece of matter? Thus this

ends up in an infinite regression. A finite mind has to

somewhere end up with an answer like ‘tvad-dattayA’ at some

stage and end the regression.

It is like summing an infinite series in mathematics. The number

‘e’ in Mathematics can be correctly expressed only as an

infinite series. By taking a finite number of terms (however

large that finite number may be) from the beginning of that

series and by summing them all up, we would certainly get an

approximation to the actual value of ‘e’ but we would never get

the actual value which is an infinite decimal. By taking more

and more terms we may get better approximations but this process

would never get the actual value. Science, in trying to probe

into Reality, may get better and better approximations by

probing deeper and deeper but it may never get to the Truth of

the Absolute Reality. It has at some stage to be satisfied with

the answer: ‘tvad-dattayA’ and ‘mayA adhyakSheNa’!

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now

http://hotjobs./

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

We continue our thoughts on Sloka 10.

 

The declaration that the Lord is the Ultimate Agent-Provocateur

of everything in this universe is indeed a difficult pill to

swallow by those who want to swear by the Free Will of Man. The

concept of Free Will in Hindu Philosophy is too subtle to admit

of being boxed in a single pigeon-hole. Even in our day to day

activities we come across incidents which bear testimony to the

presence of a holistic objective in the powers that are beyond

us. I myself could give you probably a dozen or so of incidents

and sequence of incidents in my life and lives known to me, that

speak very powerfully of The Power that is beyond us and that

works our way through life as an ‘adhyaksha’ (cf. Gita IX – 10).

But I found a graphic description of such an incident in quite

an unexpected source. It is a book entitled ‘Miracles’ whose

author I failed to note. I bumped into the book in a Library. It

says that the following is a true story.

 

Two American youngsters living 100 miles south of New York plan

to spend a Saturday afternoon in a public park near New York

along with some of their friends (living North of New York) who

promise to join them at a specified time right at the entrance

to the park. The plan is perfectly made, almost to the minute.

But the two, on their way to New York meet, first with a tire

burst (1), then half-way up with a hold-up (2) by no less than

the sheriff of the area for speedy driving – both these

incidents taking away two hours from their schedule. And then,

after the hold-up, when they start the car, the engine refused

to ignite (3) and this caused a further delay of another two

hours or so because the cause was traced to battery failure. But

since they were only 25 miles from the park they decided to give

a try even after the delay, even though they fully knew that

their friends might have given them up by that time. But soon

after, they had to negotiate a long diversion of the route in

view of a nasty accident (4) on the highway ahead of them. And

this diversion delayed them as much as another hour, because

they lost their way (5)!

Thus there were five coincidences all working against them and

when they finally reached the park it was late evening and in

fact the park was closing its gates. Still they entered and

wanted to look for their friends. The park was deserted since

everybody had left. They were about to curse their fate and

return to their car when they heard cries for help from a lake

in the park. Rushing there they saw two boys almost drowning.

They jumped in and being first-aid-certificate holders

themselves they were able to save the two little boys of ten and

twelve from certain drowning and death. They thought of the

sequence of events that happened to them during the whole trip.

A few minutes earlier they had thought that their journey was

nothing but futile, and that their day had been spent in vain,

but now it became clear it was not so; because if they had not

arrived at that late hour near that lake, those two boys would

have died by drowning!

This is a true story. It appears the Almighty has a purpose for

everything! (Sloka 10 !). Then what does it mean to say

‘udAsInavad-AsInaM’ (Sloka 9) ? This conundrum is the YOGAMAYA

(VII – 25) of the Lord!

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

 

 

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now

http://hotjobs./

[Guest guest]

<<Two American youngsters living 100 miles south of New York plan to spend a

Saturday afternoon in a public park near New York...>>

 

A moving story from profVK, no doubt and I found the skin tingling against

my will as the denouement was reached. But I feel I must object. This sort

of thing is intended to work in precisely that manner - exciting the

emotions and suppressing the discriminatory intellect. There is really no

'case to answer'. I would not want to dispute the authenticity of the story,

I am happy to take that as read. However, it proves nothing and, if

presented in a less emotive way would probably not even suggest that there

was anything untoward. The journey was delayed by a series of events. The

only real comment here is that these were more extensive than most. But it

was only a matter of relativity given the timescales. We have all had

meetings to make on many occasions where circumstances contrived to make us

late. We can usually break these up into several elements. Similarly, people

have been saved from accidents or assaults or whatever on many occasions by

people who would always have some reason for being there at that particular

time. In this example, the people who saved the children were late for a

meeting. That is surely all that can be said. There is not really one

coincidence, let alone five. Even if it were construed in that way, it

ignores the countless millions of cases in which people arrive late for

appointments through a series of unfortunate events and all that happens is

that they get extremely annoyed. The implied explanation is also totally

unscientific since it lacks falsifiability.

 

Sorry to be a bit of a killjoy here. I often find stories used as metaphor

extremely useful in providing insight into Advaitic truths but used in a

sort of 'literal' (and dvaitic) sense here, I find counterproductive. Best

just to say that all apparent events and apparent objects are connected

because there are not two to begin with.

 

Needless to say, no discourtesy intended to profVK.

 

Dennis

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Reference posts # 15155 to # 15157.

 

With Prof. VK and Michael in flying colours, it is story time on

Advaitin. Let me add mine.

 

Time 14:00 hrs. in the blazing Arabian Gulf summer with mercury at 50

degrees C or thereabout. After a heavy lunch and being alone at

home, with my family vacationing in India, I decided on the luxury of

a siesta. A close friend of mine, my village-mate, was supposed to

call on me for a personal astrological consultation before lunch but

had fortunately or unfortunately not turned up. He hadn't called me

either to cancel the appointment.

 

I thought that was all too well and he would not turn up so late to

disturb my rest. Just then, the telephone rang and it was him

profusely apologizing. The reason for his not keeping his word was

that his car would not start despite all efforts.

 

After a moment's rumination, against the calls of my anoxic body for

a post-prandial nap, I told him to go back to his car and try again

and that I didn't mind entertaining him at late afternoon even if

that meant sacrificing my siesta. I also told him that I would pray

to Mother in the meanwhile and await his arrival or his call if the

car refused to oblige.

 

I then went straight to my prayer-place, lighted the lamp and

incenses at that odd hour and began chanting the 11th Chapter of Devi

Maahaatmya. The telephone didn't ring again and,when I had chanted

the 11th Chapter several times, the door-bell rang instead. There

was my friend all in sweat beaming with a smile.

 

The car had started miraculously at the first try and my friend had a

technical explanation for it. I asked him to shut up, go to the

prayer-place, do pranAms, thank Her for being with us and then listen

to what I had to say about his horoscope. He didn't argue any

further.

 

Despite this personal experience, I am fully with you Dennisji as a

full-blooded advaitin. Mother, Lord, Baba, Krishna, Christ or

whatever name one calls THAT by is there always and everywhere. IT

is in fact an inexclusive always and everywhereness THAT is never

inclusive (assumes agency) in our mortal transactions irrespective of

whether the car started or not, the children were drowned or saved,

the woman on the hilltop was stoned or spared, BG 9: 9 and 10 were

written or not. The scenario writer enjoys his afternoon siesta

unmoved while the hero of his story sheds tears or breaks out in

laughter on the matinee screen. The hero may sing the 11th chapter

and, if he gets the heroine at last, well that was very much there in

the script! If he grows up to accept the script with equanimity,

then he is an advaitin and that is also very much in the script.

 

Pranams. Have a good day of more stories from other Members. Let us

enjoy (if that is in the script, of course). The script-writer is up

there in His bedroom with a "Do Not Disturb" sign on the door.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Dennis:

 

Let us first read the verse 10 again more carefully for getting

further insights.:

 

maya-adhyaksheNa prakR^itiH suuyate sacharaacharam.h .

hetuna-anena kaunteya jagad-viparivartate

 

"Arjuna, with me as the supervisor, Nature brings forth the

whole creation, both animate and inanimate; it is due to this

cause that the wheel of Samsara is revolving."

 

The Lord emphasizes the fact that events happen and unfold in this

universe continuously and cyclically where everyone including the

Lord is just a witness. But those who assume the role of the actors

of those events see and experience differently and develop their own

stories of the happening! The observer only has the 'right' to

observe but when we exceed our rights, we create actors and links

between the actors and their actions. Let me explain the role of

Lord in the events that unfold from daily routine in India.

 

Those who visited South India can recollect the memory of seeing the

stone idol of Lord Ganesa (God with an elephant face symbolizing

wisdom) situated on street corners or sites close to a river or a

pond. Daily routine is the following: early morning, those who go to

work, school, court, or gambling including horse races would offer

their morning prayer to the Lord for success and/or peace during the

rest of the day. Such prayer offerings include breaking a coconut or

lighting a lamp, showering of flowers or offering of fruits and

goodies. The Lord witnesses a variety of prayer offerings with a

large list of requests for actions! The stone idol of Ganesa sits

silently with a smiling face, watching everything without any

movement! Those who made the prayers and requests do evaluate

everyday how the Lord disposed of each one of their requests. Few of

them are extremely happy, few others are extremely happy, and others

reconcile themselves through intellectual rationalization of their

role in the activities on that day. The advaitic truth of the events

that happen and unfold is the understanding that "I am just a witness

just like the stone idol of Lord Ganesa and I should disconnect from

those events!"

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram chandran

 

advaitin, "Dennis Waite" <dwaite@a...> wrote:

> Sorry to be a bit of a killjoy here. I often find stories used as

metaphor

> extremely useful in providing insight into Advaitic truths but used

in a

> sort of 'literal' (and dvaitic) sense here, I find

counterproductive. Best

> just to say that all apparent events and apparent objects are

connected

> because there are not two to begin with.