Gita Satsangh: Chapter 9 - Verses 16 to 19.

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

May we now move on to the next set of verses?

 

ahaM kraturahaM yaGYaH svadhaa-ham-aham-aushhadham.h .

mantro.aham-ahamev-aajyam-aham-agnir-ahaM hutam.h .. 9\.16..

 

"I am the Vedic ritual, I am the sacrifice, I am the offering to

the departed, I am the herbage; I am the sacred formula, I am

the clarified butter, I am the sacred fire, I am verily the act

of offering oblations into the fire."

 

pitaaham-asya jagato maataa dhaataa pitaamahaH .

vedyaM pavitramo.nkaara R^ik-saama yajur-eva cha .. 9\.17..

 

"I am the sustainer and the ruler of this universe, its father,

mother and grandfather, the Knowable, the purifier, the sacred

syllable Om, and the three Vedas- Rk, Yajus and Sama."

 

gatir-bhartaa prabhuH saakshii nivaasaH sharaNa.n suhR^it.h .

prabhavaH pralayaH sthaanaM nidhaanaM biijam-avyayam.h ..

9\.18..

 

"I am the supreme goal, supporter, lord, witness, abode, refuge,

friend, origin and end, the resting-place, the store-house and

the imperishable seed."

 

tapaamy-aham-ahaM varshha.n nigR^iNhaamy-utsR^ijaami cha .

amR^ita.n chaiva mR^ityushcha sadasach-{}chaaham-arjuna ..

9\.19..

 

"Arjuna, I radiate heat as the sun, and hold back as well as

send forth showers. I am immortality as well as death; I am

being and non-being both."

 

 

 

Easy references;

 

The Gita Supersite http://www.gitasupersite.org/ contains most

of

the commentaries including commentaries in many languages.

 

For Gita Dhyana Shlokas/Mantras and Mahatmya

 

/message/advaitin/6987

 

Adi Shankara's commentary, translated by Swami Gambhirananda, at

URL:

advaitinGita/Shankara1/gmbCH9.htm

 

 

Swami Chinmayananda's commentary at URL:

advaitinGita/Chinmaya/COMM9.HTM

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

These four slokas have a unique connotation. Throughout the vast

unfolding of Hindu mythology and its scriptures there is a

countless number of hymns of praise of God. For most of them we

are indebted to Vyasa, the author of the Mahabharata and of the

whole host of puranas and upa-puranas, because he has chosen to

interpolate the narrative parts of all his writings with various

litanies in praise of the Lord. These have served all through

the centuries as texts for recitations and repetitions of God’s

names and glories. Some of them contain as many as one thousand

and eight names of God. These are called sahasra-namas. There

are plenty of these, at least one for each deity of the Hindu

pantheon. The most well-known are of course the Vishnu

sahasranama, siva sahasranama – both occurring in the

Mahabharata – and the Lalita sahasranama occurring in the

Brahmanda purana. There are smaller ones also with 108 names,

300 names and so on.

But the common factor in all these is the fact that in each case

the hymn is in answer to some one’s query and the answer usually

comes from a great sage like Agastya or Narada or a spiritual

giant such as Vyasa or Markandeya or a divine source like the

deities of speech. In every case the resulting hymn or litany

is an elaborate description of the different glories of the

Supreme, maybe in a particular manifestation. The almost

unending names of God that each of these litanies catalogue,

attempt, in a sense, to objectively describe the indescribable

and bring before us, the vision, if there could be one, of the

Supreme in all its possible facets.

Here in the Gita, in these four verses, we have the Lord Himself

describing Himself in the first person. This is the uniqueness.

It is the Subject speaking about the Subject. We are going to

get later in the tenth chapter of the Gita, a more elaborate

description of Himself by Himself. But these four slokas are so

much packed with content that they can be taken as equivalent in

potence of content, to any of the sahasranamas or any of the

litanies that one may come across in the literature. Since these

verses come from the very mouth of the Lord they could be taken

as the most authentic account, available to us, of the Essence

that is God.

When lay people point to the multiplicity of deities in Hinduism

and ask questions about the one concept of God that could stand

in comparison with the ‘unique single Almighty’ that most other

religions talk about, very often a Vedantin is tempted to refer

to the impersonal aspect of the Transcendental Reality. Or, he

might go the other way and emphasize the immanent aspect and

lean on the Grand Pronouncement: ‘aham brahma asmi’. Neither of

these answers meet the point of the layman because he thinks he

is taken to dizzy heights that ‘are not practical’ and that ‘are

not accessible’ to him. This is where these four slokas of the

Gita excel and stand as a monumental proclamation, brief but

full, lucid and profound, of the Lord about Himself. If one can

understand the full purport of these four slokas and meditate on

them incessantly and apply them to every one of one’s actions,

there is a complete religion there, in its true sense.

So much is enough in eulogy of these four verses. Let us all

take up their detailed meanings in succeeding posts. I am sure

that EVERY MEMBER ON THE LIST will participate in the

elaboration of the meanings of these, because, each one is bound

to see a different facet or perspective in his or her reading of

these.

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, "raghavakaluri" <raghavakaluri> wrote

#15283:

>

>

> To add more as to why there is no path as told by Shree SadaJi,

> please refer to current GitaSatsangh that is just handy.

> Message 15258 by Prof.V.K.Ji.

> Here some of it is cut-pasted:-

>

>

> What else is left ? Nothing.

> In other words, while the Consciousness is everywhere, how can

there

> possibly be a path ? path to where ? It is all there already.

>

>

> Kind Regards,

> Raghava

-

 

Namaste. Thank You Raghavji for bringing back the discussion to the

source. Now I hope more members will take up the thread (cf.

#15270)of Gita satsangh.

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

[Guest guest]

Namaste;

 

ProfVKji suggestion to link the on the going discussions to Gita

Satsangh is a great idea and members who follow-up on this can

greatly benefit from the Satsangh.

 

Here is my understanding of Sadaji's explanation to Shanthiji's

question on "path or nopath." In fact, Sadaji do emphasize the

importance preparing our mind (mind purification)as a first step.

Instantaneously a path is evolved without searching for one! One of

the best way to focus our mind is to turn our attention to Lord

Krishna's answers to Arjun's questions. Swami Chinmayanandaji used to

say - "it is not necessary for us to go through the Gita thousands of

time; but it is most essential that Gita goes through us atleast

once!" Swamiji's humor is to stress the importance of practicing Gita

reading.

 

Gita contains all the essential ingredients for mind purification and

the only way to achieve this by cooking the mind with the essence of

the Gita. Unlike other scriptural texts such as the Bible, we are

not bounded to any blind beliefs while cooking our mind. We have full

freedom to make appropriate variations to the recipies outlined in

Gita using our Swadharma. But all cooking requires discipline and

dedication to keep the mind peaceful. Even with the best ingredients,

lack of discipline and dedication our cooking efforts may yield more

agitations instead of lasting peace.

 

Though we may not be able to define a right path in clear terms. But

at the same time we can certainly use the Gita to avoid all

the 'wrong paths.' In the verses currently under discussion, the Lord

outlines that He is the 'Cause' for the objects that we see and

enjoy. Implicitly, the Lord ask us to divert our attention to

the "Cause" instead of the effects! When we focus on the CAUSE, the

effects become effortless to the body, mind and the intellect. On the

contrary, we focus on the 'effects' we forget the "CAUSE" and

consequently indulge our body, mind and intellect with misery and

emotional outburst as the outcome! Certainly, focusing on

the "effects" instead of the "CAUSE" is a "WRONG PATH."

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

>

> Namaste. Thank You Raghavji for bringing back the discussion to the

> source. Now I hope more members will take up the thread (cf.

> #15270)of Gita satsangh.

>

> praNAms to all advaitins

> profvk

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote:

>> Though we may not be able to define a right path in clear terms.

But

> at the same time we can certainly use the Gita to avoid all

> the 'wrong paths.' Certainly, focusing on

> the "effects" instead of the "CAUSE" is a "WRONG PATH."

 

Namaste,

 

Ramji's is a much better phrase than 'pathless land'!

When Krishna says in 9:18 'gatiH' - Supreme Goal', the obvious

corollary is that there is a path to the Goal. In fact, it could be

said that everything, that is every action, then becomes a path, as

long as the Goal is kept in focus.

 

Gita has has used the term 'gatI' numerous times:

gahanA karmaNo gatiH; paramA gatI; etc.

 

It is when one tries to monopolize or name it, that

disputes arise. As Lao Tse says in Tao Te Ching:

 

http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/H/Gregory.M.Heiser-1/Tao.PDF

 

Selections from the Tao Te Ching

I

"The Way that can be spoken of is not the true way;"

 

-------------------

[http://www.kfoundation.org/index.htm

 

Asked to describe what lay at the heart of his teaching, he said,

 

"Truth is a pathless land. Man cannot come to it through any

organisation, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual,

nor through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique. He

has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the

understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation

and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection..."]

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Selections from the Tao Te Ching

I

"The Way that can be spoken of is not the true way;"

 

-------------------

[http://www.kfoundation.org/index.htm

 

Asked to describe what lay at the heart of his teaching, he said,

 

"Truth is a pathless land. Man cannot come to it through any

organisation, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual,

nor through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique. He

has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the

understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation

and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection..."]

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

 

 

namaste Sunderji: If you had not mentioned Tao's name in the above quote, I

would have thought that you were quoting J.Krishnamurty. It is so revealing to

see that all enlightened masters describe the TRUTH in similar words.

Thank you for your posting

Shanti

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Shanti" <shanti@f...> wrote:

> It is so revealing to see that all enlightened masters describe

the TRUTH in similar words.

>

 

Namaste,

 

Krishna has emphasised 'infinite paths' in a more positive

manner, in 4:11 -

 

ye yathaa maaM prapadyante taa.nstathaiva bhajaamyaham.h |

mama vartmaanuvartante manushhyaaH paartha sarvashaH ||4.11||

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

I will continue to look from the Consciousness angle.

 

9.16 deals with actions or processes as they are the essence of

manifestation. (A seed remains a seed if there is no process of

germination. Germination is the process that brings forth the

sprout, the plant and then the tree.) Manifestation of what?

Manifestation of the entire creation – all this universe of plurality.

 

A sacrifice is taken as a representative action. Each part, each

material, each utterance, each minute seemingly single and different

act of the sacrifice is Consciousness. The entire sacrifice is

homogenously Consciousness.

 

Similarly, the entire life, and, for that matter, the entire kalpa is

Consciousness. Each and every thing that manifests in the kalpa is

also, therefore, verily Consciousness. Now look at what comes at the

end. Consciousness is the very fire into which everything ultimately

goes and that very process of going (dissolution) is also

Consciousness. Consciousness, therefore, stands witness to both

creation and dissolution.

 

The message, one should think, is therefore two-fold. (a) Perform

each action – each atom of it - as you perform a sacrifice with a

sense of total surrender knowing that the entire process is nothing

but Consciousness, and (b) be constantly aware that the entire act of

creation is nothing but a grand sacrifice by Consciousness on to the

Fire of Consciousness Itself. The fundamental connection of each and

every microcosmic action/process to the macrocosm is established

here. Nothing is excluded from the totality.

 

The first part of 9.17 then connects well with its predecessor. We

now have no doubt that Consciousness is the sustainer, ruler and

parent(s) of this universe. How? We have already seen in a previous

verse that Consciousness is the adhyaksha (one who presides over the

whole of creation). Yes. But, there was a difference. Another

stanza said that that presiding is not active by using the word

udAsInavat. Then how could one conclude that

Consciousness "performs" the grand act of creation? The answer is

implied in the 9.16 itself. While it says "I am the ritual, I am the

sacrifice etc.", nowhere has it been mentioned that I am

the "performer" of the ritual. So, Consciousness obviously is not the

performer but yet the One because of Which performance is.

 

So, does that mean that anyone performing an action as an act of

surrender to Consciousness should do so without a sense of

performership? Yes. Only then can he be advaitically spontaneous.

That is the very point not directly stated but shines like the Sun

all through 9.16. Not that alone. This business of performership is

nowhere in our system of knowledge. So, it could be Adam's first

sin, which took him away from Himself. He thought he plucked, ate

and enjoyed the apple. That is damnation.

 

The second part of 9.17 deals with knowing and knowledge. All the

knowables, i.e. all that are there for my objectification – internal

as well as external – are Consciousness. Pranava – the primal

sound - from which nAda prapancha originated giving rise to this

world of nAma roopa is also Consciousness. (Recall our discussion on

Ch.Up.VI – 1) The Vedas including Vedanta and Advaita are also

Consciousness. This particular line, therefore, encapsulates the

chit aspect of sat-chit-Ananda, which we arrive at through

scriptural study and through vichAra on scriptural statements and

meditation on Om. It is jnAnayoga in a nutshell. That is

Consciousness. (Why is Atarva omitted? Isn't that significant in

the light of our understanding? Can someone please shed light here?)

 

Who doesn't want to have a goal in life? Who doesn't crave for

security, rest and company? Life is a constant struggle for all

these. No one is fully satisfied however much he or she gains on all

these fronts. There are still wants. 9.18 laughs at them.

 

Consciousness is your constant companion and friend. There isn't a

moment you are not without It. Still, you run around feeling lonely.

If you slept and rested last night, that was in Consciousness. You

cannot sleep anywhere else because there is no anywhere else!

(Imagine the sad plight of all those insomniacs who have the best of

beds, comforts and leisure!). You think of an origin and end. These

are only thoughts (which are nothing but Consciousness again!) and

not things, which you really experienced or are going to experience.

Consciousness, your real nature, is the one and only originless

origin from which everything springs forth. That should, therefore,

be your supreme path and goal. Know that to be your everything.

Know that you do already have all that you are running after and you

are Full without any wants. Do you still need to build a new

storehouse now?!

 

9.19 negates pairs of opposites – heat and cold, immortality and

death, being and non-being. Without Consciousness, these pairs of

opposites, which make the experienced world, cannot stand.

Consciousness permeates them. The immediate association is to BG Ch.

2 (seethoshna sukhadukhada and nAsato vidyate bhAva). The concept of

immortality, which most think is self-realization, gets a beating

here. Immortality here is relegated to signify simply the opposite

of death - deathlessness. The ideas of death and deathlessness

cannot be without Consciousness as heat and cold cannot be without

Consciousness.. An advaitin's goal shouldn't therefore be a state of

deathlessness but perfect equanimity with regard to both death and

deathlessness as he is to heat and cold. I do not know if I can

reduce the last pair translated as being and non-being to the level

of presence and absence. The thing that I immediately remember is

the following statement by a very renowned Malayalam poet:

 

"The characteristics of absence can spontaneously arise in extreme

presence".

 

He was indeed very close to the Truth or already there. This is

borne out from experience. Frost can bite like heat! Viewed from

the angle of Consciousness, even pain and pleasure are the same.

Both are "manifestations" of Consciousness. Pain is disliked and

pleasure is enjoyed only as long as the false identity with the body

lasts.

 

So, the final message of 9.19 – Realize the pairs of opposites as

Consciousness by getting rid of your false identities and stop

grieving.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair>

wrote:

> Namaste.

>

> I will continue to look from the Consciousness angle.

>

> (Why is Atarva omitted? Isn't that significant in

> the light of our understanding? Can someone please shed light

here?)

> Realize the pairs of opposites as

> Consciousness by getting rid of your false identities and stop

> grieving.

 

Namaste,

 

All excellent points. The comments would apply very well to

Gita 4:23 and 24 also. Again, the key to Krishna's saying 'aham' at

anytime is in 10:20 : aham AtmA ......... All his utterances would

seem to be from this awareness.

 

Regarding the three/four vedas, Kanchi Paramacharya has shed

light on this :

 

http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part5/chap27.htm

 

http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part5/chap38.htm

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

Profvkji has made the excellent point that each list member is more

likely to understand the verses under discussion on his/her own

terms. Swami Dayananda Saraswati, head of Arsha Vidya Gurukulam

points out that chapter 9 describes the characteristics of "Ishwara -

Lord of the universe" using attributes most familiar for our

understanding. Swamiji also states that these verses fall right in

the middle of Gita (18 chapters with a total of 700 verses) and have

special significance and he asks the devotees of Gita to pay special

attention to these verses. Let me try to focus our attention on a

list of key Sanskrit words and special significance.

 

The word Jagatah stands for the entire creation consisting of both

sentient and insentient beings. Everything in this world has been

emanated from God, the Supreme Cause of the universe. This may

explain why the Lord refers to Himself as the Father and Mother of

the universe. Popular Hindu names such as Jagadish and Jaganath

portray the same sentiment.

 

That which is worth knowing is called Vedya. God alone is the one

supreme Truth knowable through all the Vedas (XV). God reveals the

Vedas and vice versa and the Vedas and the Lord are inseparable!

 

The Lord calls Himself as Pavitra - implying that not only He is

Pure, He is also the Purifier! God is supremely likeable and holy;

and His very sight, and the mere thought of Him help us to purify our

mind. The Lord says that the entire purification process such as our

Japas or pujas, austerities, sacred vows and visit to temples and

other holy places etc., is also due to His Grace. The subtle message

is our free-will and all our efforts (sadhana) are also due to His

Grace!

 

The Lord declares that "I am the sacred syllable OM." The list has

discussed elaborately on the fully meaning of the syllable "OM"

or "AUM" and interested members should access the list archives. A

number of Internet sites also describe "OM" elaborately. There is no

wonder why Gayatri mantra starts with this Pranav mantra!

 

The word, Gati signifies that which is worth attaining. The highest

worth attaining entity is God; it is therefore that the Lord calls

Himself by the term Gati or Goal. ParaGati or ParamaGati (supreme

Goal or supreme State) and Avinasi Pada (Eternal State), imply the

same.

 

He who supports or maintains is known as Bharta. God is the protector

and supporter of the whole world and He is therefore the Bharta.

 

The one who rules is called a Prabhu. God is the supreme ruler of the

prabhus of the world. He is the supreme deity of all deities, the

supreme Master of all masters, the Lord of all the worlds and the

supreme God, the highest object of worship (Sveta. Up. VI. 7).

 

A place of abode is called Nivasah. It is in God alone that all

beings dwell at every time and under every circumstance no matter

whether they are on their legs or at rest, standing or sitting, awake

or asleep, being born in this world or giving up the ghost. Hence the

Lord speaks of Himself as the Nivasa or Abode. Lord refers to Himself

as aranam or refuge because he loves all those who take shelter under

Him.

 

The word Suhrd is quite special and it represents a kind-hearted and

loving person who is naturally and gratuitously solicitous for the

welfare of another, and actually does good to others without

expecting any return. God is the motiveless benefactor, the supreme

well-wisher, and the greatest and most loving friend of all living

beings; it is therefore that the Lord calls Himself a Suhrd. In the

concluding verse of Chapter V, Lord said, "Having known Me as the

disinterested friend of all living beings, My devotee attains supreme

peace." (V.29.)

 

A permanent storage place is called a Nidhana. The entire process of

creation and dissolution of the universe happens within the Lord

therefore the Lord calls Himself as the Nidhana.

 

God is Avyaya or imperishable. He is the imperishable cause of all

sentient and insentient beings. All beings emanate from Him; He is

the ultimate substratum of all.

 

Amrta is that which takes one beyond the realm of death and makes one

immortal. God is the supreme nectar whose realization makes one to

secure immortality.

 

God is the Mahakala (the supreme Spirit of Destruction) and the Lord

Himself says in verse XI. 32: "I am the inflamed Kala the destroyer

of the worlds." It is therefore that He declares death to be His very

self.

 

The imperishable Self is the Sat (Being); and all that is perishable

and transient goes by the name of Asat (non-being) (II. 16). These

two categories are also referred in Chapter XV as the Aksara, and

Ksara Purusas. or the imperishable and perishable entities. They also

constitute the Para and Apara Prakrits, or the higher and lower

Natures of God, which are identical with God. It is therefore that

the Lord declares Himself as being and non-being both.

 

The word Somapah stands for those who drink the juice of the Soma

plant according to the rules laid down in the scriptures for the

potation of such juice in the source of sacrifices. The word

Putapapah represents those who have been purged of sins that stand as

an impediment to the attainment of heaven, through the proper

performance Vedic rituals. The word Putapapah cannot be taken to mean

those whose sins have been completely washed away. Attainment of

heaven is called Svargati. Worshipping the gods through Vedic rituals

and praying to them for granting an abode in heaven is what is meant

by seeking access to heaven.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> Namaste.

>

> These four slokas have a unique connotation. Throughout the vast

> unfolding of Hindu mythology and its scriptures there is a

> countless number of hymns of praise of God. .....

> I am sure

> that EVERY MEMBER ON THE LIST will participate in the

> elaboration of the meanings of these, because, each one is bound

> to see a different facet or perspective in his or her reading of

> these.

>

> praNAms to all advaitins

> profvk