Advaitic explanation of Dreams

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Could anybody enlighten me with what is the explanation of dreams and the

dreamer in Advaitia ? What texts can I read about them ? What does Sri

Sankaracharya say about them ?

 

1) Who is it that dreams ? Who is actually seeing the dreams ? Is that the

intellect that sees the dreams ?

 

2) Where are the dreams created ? It cannot be the same thought space where we

live, right ?

 

3) Why cannot we think of God ( the self ) in the dreams all the time ? Is it

the past samskaras that rise up to the surface and stand in the way ?

 

4) Does anybody wonder how amazing it is that sometimes we seem to have no

identity in the dreams ? And the moment you realize that you are the person with

a name and attributes the dream seems to vanish and you are awake. But you just

wake up into the bigger dream. Is this correct ?

 

My salutations to all the learned scholars in this group.

 

Om Tat Sat

 

Guru Venkat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, Guru Venkat <v_vedanti> wrote:

>

> Namaste,

 

Hari Om! namastE!

>

> Could anybody enlighten me with what is the explanation of dreams

and the dreamer in Advaitia ? What texts can I read about them ? What

does Sri Sankaracharya say about them ?

>

> 1) Who is it that dreams ? Who is actually seeing the dreams ? Is

that the intellect that sees the dreams ?

 

"THINE OWN SELF" is the answer...

 

That which sees the light and darkness is the one which sees the

dreams. ... Imagine when you are in darkness but still could see and

say such sentencences like --- *I* am in darkness and *I* am in

light. The concepts of darkness and light come from the citta (store

in memory) and intellect is the one which decides upon what is what.

 

The one which sees the dreams and says I had a good dream and I had a

bad dream, has experienced something, enalized it with the help of

intellect and expressing it through the means of sense organs.

 

At the end of Third chapter Lord Srikrisha pointed out clearly (I am

giving below Sri Sankara's commentary):

 

indriyaaNi paraaNyaahurindriyebhyaH paraM manaH .

manasastu paraa buddhiryo buddheH paratastu saH .. 3\.42..

 

42. They say that the senses are noble; nobler than the senses is

mind;

Intellect is nobler than the mind; What is nobler, still, than the

mind, is He,

the Self.

 

evaM buddheH paraM buddhvaa sa.nstabhyaatmaanamaatmanaa .

jahi shatruM mahaabaaho kaamaruupaM duraasadam.h .. 3\.43..

 

42.1 The senses, ear etc., in relation to the gross and finite

external body,

are held by the sages to be noble; for, they are subtle, internal,

and wider in

scope. Similarly mind, imaginative and analytic, is nobler than the

senses. So

top the intellect, whose essence is discrimination, is nobler than

the mind.

Finally He (the embodied Self) who is inner to every object and

instrument of

perception up to the intellect, whon 'craving' resorting to these

instruments,

namely, the senses, mind and intellect, deludes by obcuring knoweldge-

He is

nobler than even the intellect. He, the beholder of the intellect,

is the

supreme Self.

 

 

>

> 2) Where are the dreams created ? It cannot be the same thought

space where we live, right ?

 

For anything to move it requires some space (called "Aakasa" in

sakskrit -- avakaasaM dadAti iti AkASaH --- that which allows an

oppurtunity) and for all the characters that get created in dream

they also require some space -- but that space can not be measured in

meterialistic terms but it is called as "cidAkAsa" in sanskrit. The

dreams get created in (roughly translated) the space of knowledge --

it is the knowledge of known and unknown(vaasanas) seen and unseen,

smelled and notsmelled, touched and not touched --- they all get

mixed in the mixer called "Maya" and played in dreams... all our

dreams fly in the cidakasa like clowds fly in the vast blue sky.

 

>

> 3) Why cannot we think of God ( the self ) in the dreams all the

time ? Is it the past samskaras that rise up to the surface and stand

in the way ?

 

YOU CAN DREAM ABOUT GOD (THE SELF) EVEN IN DREAMS. Actually that is

the the sole aim of certain schools of thought. First find what is

disturbing you from seeing Lord, then address it... NOBODY is perfect

in this world, those who are perfect appear to be living in this

world but they dont! This is called as "Vishnu Maya" (daiveehi yEshA

guNamayee mama mAyA duratyayA")... In order to get out of this

VishnumAya and see vishunu you need to strictly follow the advise of

Gita :

 

mayyeva mana aadhatsva mayi buddhi.n niveshaya .

nivasishhyasi mayyeva ata uurdhva.n na sa.nshayaH .. 12\.8..

 

Fix your mind on Me only, place your intellect in Me; then,

(thereafter) you shall, no doubt, live in Me alone.

 

You see! Lord is very considerate :-) what if you cant do the above?

then he advises further:

 

athachittaM samaadhaatuM na shak{}noshhi mayi sthiram.h .

abhyaasayogena tato maamichchhaap{}tuM dhana.njaya .. 12\.9..

 

If you are unable to fix your mind steadily upon Me, then by

the 'YOGA -of constant-practice, ' seek to reach Me, O Dhananjaya

 

IF THIS IS ALSO NOT POSSIBLE, THEN

 

abhyaase.apyasamartho.asi matkarmaparamo bhava .

madarthamapi karmaaNi kurvansiddhimavaapsyasi .. 12\.10..

 

If you are unable even to practise ABHYASA-YOGA, be you intent on

performing actions for My sake; even by doing actions for My sake,

you shall attain perfection.

 

FINE! what if you cant do even the above... THEN:

 

athaitadapyashak{}to.asi kartuM madyogamaashritaH .

sarvakarmaphalatyaagaM tataH kuru yataatmavaan.h .. 12\.11..

 

If you are unable to do even this, then taking refuge in Me, self-

controlled, renounce the fruits-of-all-actions

 

---

So in your case, where the discussion was that you are not able to

see the LORD then dont bother... Renounce even the fruits-of-dreams.

That is, this is a bad dream or this is a good dream... Say that "LET

GO LET GOD"...

 

>

> 4) Does anybody wonder how amazing it is that sometimes we seem to

have no identity in the dreams ? And the moment you realize that you

are the person with a name and attributes the dream seems to vanish

and you are awake. But you just wake up into the bigger dream. Is

this correct ?

 

Correct..

>

> My salutations to all the learned scholars in this group.

>

> Om Tat Sat

>

> Guru Venkat

 

I also join you and humbly salute all the learned scholars in this

group.

 

I remain yours,

Madhava

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

 

Guru Venkat was asking about the nature of the dream in Advaita.

 

In the commentary on Section IV of the Brhadaranyaka Upanisad Sankara has

various

 

comments on the dream. Following the upanisad he distinguishes the modes of

 

consciousness and links them together in a holistic way. Each state

reflects the

 

nature of consciousness but ironically as you go from state to state this

becomes

 

clearer till paradoxically the state of deep sleep reveals the self-luminous

nature of

 

non-dual consciousness most clearly.

 

How does this come about? It seems contrary to common sense. If you want a

good look

 

at something you should view it in a good light i.e. the waking alert state.

However

 

in the waking state so many candidates press themselves forward as the self

that it is

 

hard to decide which is best. "Among the body, organs, vital force and

mind, which is

 

the self you have spoken of - through which light, you said, etc" It is

difficult to

 

decide "the logic is too subtle to be grasped easily". The dream state

simplifies

 

matters. It he states, with characteristic acuteness, is akin to

recollection in that

 

"in dreams and remembrances we notice only things seen before". If as the

materialist

 

would have it you see with the eyes only, then if, as seems to be the case

the dream is a quasi perception then why should not utterly new sights etc

be seen in the dream? The dreams of the blind (non-congenital) are also

related to the sight they once had. The eyes not being the source of

perception in the dream state what then is the knower of the dream? It is

the self.

 

In the waking life it is easy for the intellect to become identified with

the self.

 

When however in the dream which is a modification assumed by the intellect

there being

 

no material candidate functioning as knower because of the argument just

stated (the

 

dream is like a recollection rather than a perception) the self-effulgent

nature of

 

the self stands out. "Because the self stands revealing by its own distinct

light the

 

modification known as dream assumed by the intellect, therefore it must

really be

 

self-effulgent, pure and devoid of agent and action with its factors and

results."

 

I hope this is not a distortion of the position taken by Shankara.

 

Ciao and Blessings, Michael.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

I have not read the reference quoted by Michael (Post # 15347).

Nevertheless, I think our understanding can be simplified.

 

I dreamt I was on Mt. Everest. I felt the bitter cold. I felt

suffocated as my breathing apparatus had some fault. I viewed the

expanses below from that great height. I made snowballs and threw

them in every direction. On top of that, to be patriotic, I hoisted

the Indian flag too.

 

What are the elements of previous experience and memory here?

Many. An old picture of Hillary and Tensing standing on that peak?

Some glimpses of snowy peaks and people marooned at hostile heights

seen in movies? My experience of cold with ice in the freezer as I

have never been in sub-zero weather? Some suffocation which I

experienced long back when I inhaled some obnoxious fumes? We can

argue that the dream is a mixture of all these things and

imagination? However, that does not make it an old experience. If

anything, it is a new experience, particularly when the dream lasts.

We become wise only when we wake up to what we call wakefulness or

into another dream within that dream.

 

In a similar manner, I can also dream being in outer space in zero

gravity. What is my past experience here? Some articles which I

read about weightlessness and the antics of some astronauts in

orbit? Obviously, that does not give me an "experience" of zero

weight.

 

In my early twenties, I used to note down my dreams meticulously and

analyze them. I used to do this for others too. The works of Freud

and Jung were my bible then. For every silly dream, I had an

explanation. I am now wondering how I would have interpreted my

Everest dream, had it occurred to me then. I would definitely have

relied heavily on Freud and found a connotation that is unprintable

here. Thank God, I no more have that passion for dream-analysis.

 

Once we appreciate that all happenings, be they of waking or dream

state, are projections of Consciousness, is there then any need to

differentiate between these states and break our heads? Isn't it, in

this light, a little simplistic to think that dreams are just

recollections of previous experiences. There is definitely more to

them.

 

Consciousness can project anything. As I dose of, I often fantasize

different realities where, although I still am the subject,

happenings quite different from the waking reality occur with perfect

logic. When I wake with a jerk, that world gives way to "waking

reality". This happens to most people. We have no choice about

it. What Consciousness wills happens, irrespective of dream or

wakefulness. I won't therefore be surprised if UFOs become IFOs as

part of our reality tomorrow like newer and newer objects on the

farthest fringes of this expanding universe are assimilated almost

every day into our storehouse of identifiable known reality.

 

Similarly, we can never be sure between how many different realities

do we flit every so-called moment. We can only gaze in wonderment

and if the wonderment erases the gazer, the purpose of advaita is

served.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

______________________

[Guest guest]

Namaste Nairji:

 

Thanks for the delightful intellectual analysis of our past 'dreams.'

Our creative ability and imaginative mind have no bound and there is

no wonder that we have so many theories alon with interesting

episodes in support of such theories. At the same time we do have

contradictions and counter arguments against those theories using

exceptions.

 

Beyond the intellectual theories, dream do contain the mystical

elements which can't be fully explained by our intellect. Such

mystical experiences can happen to anyone and everyone! Let me give

an example of the dreams experienced by the famous Indian

mathematician, Srinivasa Ramanujam. It has been stated that many of

the mathematical theorems came during his dreams. Still some of the

theorems stated by Ramanujam have not been completely proved or

disproved by the mathematicians of the world. As a mathematician, I

am always fascinated by Ramanujam's genius (ProfVK a mathematician by

profession may be able to throw more light on Ramanujam as he has

written a nice article on Ramanaujam). The mystical side of 'dreams'

will always remain beyond the grasp of our intellect and this is my

humble opinion,

 

warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

 

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair>

wrote:

> Namaste.

> ..........

> I dreamt I was on Mt. Everest. ...........

>

> What are the elements of previous experience and memory here?

> Many. An old picture of Hillary and Tensing standing on that

peak?

> Some glimpses of snowy peaks and people marooned at hostile heights

> seen in movies?

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ramji.

 

Thanks. There was Friedrich August Kekule in Organic Chemistry who

discovered the benzine ring (hexagon with alternating double-bonds.

Kekule had claimed that his discovery was the direct result of

a 'waking dream' he had in a bus.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

 

____________________

 

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote:

[Guest guest]

Philosophy of Dreams

By

 

Sri Swami Sivananda

 

 

A DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION

 

http://www.thedivinelifesociety.org/download/dream.htm

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair>

wrote:

> Namaste Ramji.

>

> Thanks. There was Friedrich August Kekule in Organic Chemistry who

> discovered the benzine ring (hexagon with alternating double-

bonds.

> Kekule had claimed that his discovery was the direct result of

> a 'waking dream' he had in a bus.

>

> Pranams.

>

> Madathil Nair

>

> ____________________

>

> advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote:

[Guest guest]

Hello Madathil and Advaitins all,

In the fine print I said 'akin to recollection' fearing the forensic mind

and not

 

wishing to dilate too much on the differences which are of course clear. A

dream is a

 

report or quasi-memory and nothing other than your say so backs it up. Even

the EEG

 

machine recording movements characteristic of dreaming does not indicate

that your

 

dream report 'corresponds' to it in some way. The common sense view of

dreams is that

 

they are a collage of the day's events and your preoccupations, obsessions

and

 

anxieties. In general they are unpleasant.

 

The memory until it is backed up in some evidential way must occupy the same

never

 

never land. Just because you remember something doesn't mean that it

happened. You

 

could be confabulating or deluded.

 

 

"Once we appreciate that all happenings, be they of waking or dream

state, are projections of Consciousness, is there then any need to

differentiate between these states and break our heads? Isn't it, in

this light, a little simplistic to think that dreams are just

recollections of previous experiences. There is definitely more to

them"

 

All true, however in the ordinary way it has to be demonstrated that all

this mundane

 

reality is a projection of consciousness. Simply asserting that it is may

carry as

 

much weight as declaring you are the rightful King of France unless you bear

the title

 

of Bhagavan - and that by acclamation.

 

Ciao and Blessings, Michael

 

 

 

 

 

_______________

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Michael.

 

It is not a simple assertion. Neither am I Bhagwan. It is a logical

conclusion - a vision that provides a satisfactory model for

creation. I understand this is the case with many other advaitins. If

the difference of opinion is about the logic of it, then we ought to

talk about and straighten it out instead of bashing the poor "dream"

baby. Otherwise, we would be shouting out to each other from two

islands far apart.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

----

 

advaitin, "michael Reidy" <ombhurbhuva@h...> wrote:

> All true, however in the ordinary way it has to be demonstrated

that all

> this mundane

>

> reality is a projection of consciousness. Simply asserting that it

is may

> carry as

>

> much weight as declaring you are the rightful King of France unless

you bear

> the title

>

> of Bhagavan - and that by acclamation.

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Further to my post # 15368 of today.

 

One more very personal thought on dreams if I am not overdoing.

Everyone seems to concur with the view that dreams are "a collage of

the day's events and preoccupations, obsessions and anxieties" as

Michael puts it. Can't it be the other way round, i.e. our waking

life is a collage of dream events?

 

Objection: In waking life, dreams are remembered and found unreal.

In dreams, waking life is not similarly analyzed and found false.

Waking state should, therefore, get precedence over dreams.

 

Answer: When a dream is on, the dreamer takes the dream as reality.

The dreamer can have a dream within that dream, wake from it to the

first dream and conclude that the second dream was unreal. So, the

first dream attains the status of "reality". No one can really be

sure how many such regressions or progressions are possible in either

direction. Besides, when the impossible happens or the possible

becomes impossible in dreams, isn't wakeful reality falsified?

 

These are just thoughts. Objections are cordially solicited.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Dreams are experienced by the mind and the knower of the mind and body.

Waking state too is experienced by the mind and the knower of the mind and

body. The knower is beyond the mind's judgement as the knower lives in the

present moment and mind judges everything from the past . Dream is felt

because the mind keeps those imagesin the memory. Knower is awake ,alert and

aware in all four states (waking, dream , deep sleep and Turya). Turya

happens in special cases where the knower becomes one with the Sakshi

(Universal Witness) and the mind is in zero state of silence. In Turya the

knower knows the whole universe.

Sairam.

Babu S.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Greeting Madathil and advaitins all,

A dream within a dream. You could claim that you had such and it could

neither be proved nor disproved. It has been said that a dream is no more

than just a report and that it refers to that only. It is I think

significant that those undergoing Jungian psychotherapy have Jungian type

dreams and likewise those who follow the path of Freudian analysis produce

nocturnal adventures according to the templates of that master. We tell a

story and call it a dream.

 

Abstaining from metaphor and speaking strictly advaitically we immediately

know the difference between dreaming and waking. The progressive revelation

of the nature of consciousness is an Upanishadic theme much clarified by

Sankara himself. A case of 'ignorance itself getting transformed into

knowledge' kind of.

 

A question: Does the jivan mukta dream? My reason for suggesting that

he/she does not (in the ordinary way)is that the churning of consciousness

in the Nilkantha manner is over. Perhaps some of the learned members have

knowledge of their reports on this.

 

Ciao and Blessings, Michael

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste All,

 

"I" have often had dreams where "I" am aware that it is a dream. How

is it possible to be aware of this so effortlessly in the dream

state, yet quite rare (I think ) in the waking/"bigger dream" state?

 

Love,

Tapan

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Thanks Michael for your wonderful feedback.

 

A dream within a dream is not my experience alone. Such things have

been extensively reported. Bertrand Russel (in his autobiography? -

I am not quite sure) had reported waking from one dream to another

and to yet another and so on while recovering from an anaesthesia.

No one can prove a dream despite all our advances on REM sleep. For

that matter, neither can anyone prove the validity of his waking

state in a dream, if such a question arises.

 

Yes. We know the difference between dreaming and waking. You are

quite right. But, in wakefulness only. There are moments while

dreaming when we suddenly suspect that we are dreaming. Then we may

wake up or slip into another dream state and believe that that is

wakefulness! Don't ask for proof please. This again has been

reported.

 

In this context, it is better that we leave Freud and Jung where they

belong. Jung can confuse us advaitins with his "collective

unconscious and synchronicity", particularly the former.

 

Upanishidic themes often get clarified in dreams too. This is

personal experience. Hope other advaitins amongst us can corroborate

me here. Sankara and all our teachers crowd our dreamworld too.

Advaitic knowledge permeate both planes. Why should one consider

that dream advaita is an extension of wakeful advaita? It can be the

other way round too (as a reasonable argument). Why must we submit

to "wakeful parochialism" when everything is Consciousness

unravelling? Don't ask me to demonstrate the intent of my question,

Michael. As an advaitin, you know that I am right.

 

Now a digression at the end: Enjoy Edgar Allan Poe's Poem "A Dream

Within A Dream" at

http://eserver.org/books/poe/dream_within_a_dream.html.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

 

 

 

advaitin, "michael Reidy" <ombhurbhuva@h...> wrote:

all,

> A dream within a dream. You could claim that you had such and it

could

> neither be proved nor disproved.

[Guest guest]

Hello Madathil and Advaitins all,

The main consciousness continents which we all live on have

 

'holiday' islands on them which we visit from time to time for

 

R&R. That state known as hypnagogic (leading to dream) has

 

been claimed as the type of consciousness in which yoga nidra

 

occurs. This relaxed absorption before the onset of sleep is

 

favoured as a state to dwell in in meditation. Perhaps adepts

 

see a continuum where we experience disjunction. Dreams of the

 

Master are not ordinary dreams but a darshan.

 

Sankara in B.S.B. somewhere is asked to consider the inclusion

 

of swoon as an extra state of consciousness but he rejects that

 

and insists that it is like deep sleep. Of course there are

 

states of waking awareness which are neither waking nor dream

 

in that they contain experiences which are not acessible by

 

persons who ought to be in a position to. Visions would be

 

this sort of experience. This is no doubt to the realised is

 

drawing distinctions where none exist. It's all consciousness.

 

Why draw lines on water?

Ciao and Blessings, Michael.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaskar,

here is my 2 cents worth...

The state that you say as hypnagonic... is it the state called laya ( or is it

lasa ) that is mentioned as one of the obstacles that come in meditation. it

produces a sleep in the person and is mentioned as a state to be overcome with

practice. not a state to remain in.

The self remains in the deep sleep state. The self comes out of this state into

a state of reflected consciousness and then into the individual Jiva and sees

the phenomena , this world. I read something like this in one of the works about

Ramana Maharishi.

The self while in deep sleep is a level of samadhi as Sanakaracharya himself

says.

While coming out of this deep sleep ( or going towards it ) the consciousness

has to pass through the reflected conscious state where false identification is.

All the thoughts, the past deep rooted impressions can come to surface here,

which appears as our dream. Our mind creates a world for us to see the

thoughts.

Swami vivekananda mentions that ( while explaining sushuma channel ) a small

particle traveling in the sushuma canal can create a world for us, that we see

in our dream.

But every single dream has to have been a thought in the past, experienced by

us, present in our subconsciousness.

I may dream that i am looking at a tiger. i get scared in my dream. the person

analyzing my dream says that i was scared about something in my present life and

tiger had been a beast that i was scared of, as a child. hence the dream shows a

tiger to me.

my wife dreams that her body dissolved in a lake. how absurd !! there is no

explanation. But the absurdity is not in the dream. It's in the fact that we

convince ourselves that it was a dream. To try to explain it to be understood by

these senses. The dream might be closer to the real. Analyzing dreams would be

a futile exercise, as Michael mentions . But the dream itself is a wonderful

phenomena.

Guru Venkat

 

 

michael Reidy <ombhurbhuva wrote:

Hello Madathil and Advaitins all,

The main consciousness continents which we all live on have

 

'holiday' islands on them which we visit from time to time for

 

R&R. That state known as hypnagogic (leading to dream) has

 

been claimed as the type of consciousness in which yoga nidra

 

occurs. This relaxed absorption before the onset of sleep is

 

favoured as a state to dwell in in meditation. Perhaps adepts

 

see a continuum where we experience disjunction. Dreams of the

 

Master are not ordinary dreams but a darshan.

 

Sankara in B.S.B. somewhere is asked to consider the inclusion

 

of swoon as an extra state of consciousness but he rejects that

 

and insists that it is like deep sleep. Of course there are

 

states of waking awareness which are neither waking nor dream

 

in that they contain experiences which are not acessible by

 

persons who ought to be in a position to. Visions would be

 

this sort of experience. This is no doubt to the realised is

 

drawing distinctions where none exist. It's all consciousness.

 

Why draw lines on water?

Ciao and Blessings, Michael.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

I find this introductory paragraph of the book is an excellent

summary of An Advaitic Explanation of Dreams!

 

Instead of dreaming about dreams, we should learn to accept and

convert the present world as heaven instead of treating it as hell!

 

regards,

 

Ram Chandran

==================

 

Title of the Book: What is Spiritual Freedom

Author: Harold Klemp

=========================

"You can make your heaven here and now. The more you understand this,

the greater your spiritual freedom.

Imagine you're locked in a tiny, dark room. Feeling sad and alone,

you lie down on the floor. Then you have a dream. In the dream you're

visiting with a friendly stranger. His face is pleasant, familiar.

He explains you've made this room of problems for yourself. You shut

and locked the door when you started pushing against these problems.

However, he says you can get to the spiritual root of your problems.

The door can be unlocked and opened from the inside - if you know the

secret.

 

"When you awaken, you see he is right. You unlock the door, pull it

toward you, and step out... "

======================

Source: amazon.com

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

After all the thought-provoking discussion about dreams, may I

slightly detour and ask a simple question? What is the purpose

of dreams in God's creation? It doesn't seem to have a medical

purpose. Or does it? Like the appendix in the human body, the

phenomenon of dreams in the bio-physical system of the human

species seems to be an 'appendix'.

But I think there is a spiritual purpose. Suppose the dream

concept had never been there. Suppose the human body and mind go

to sleep without going through the dream stage and wake up from

sleep in the same way. Would we ever understand or comprehend

that there is a state of awareness higher than the waking state?

If people who have experienced samAdhi come and tell us that

there is such a state and that our present state of waking

awareness is nothing but a 'dream' to them, would we ever

understand it?

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Permit me, Sir, to disagree.

 

Dreams might have helped us understand the nature of consciousness.

However, they are not absolutely necessary to appreciate the advaitic

truth.

 

Most people are skeptical when they are told about a 'samAdhi

experience' despite the fact that they all dream. The reason may be

that they are so very much preoccupied with this waking reality that

they don't think there is anything beyond and pervading it.

 

That awareness extends beyond this waking reality is, therefore, to

be appreciated intuitively and not in relation to the dream state or

any state for that matter. This is not to deny that dream state has

helped us understand our real nature. Mand. Up. is an excellent

example.

 

In this context, an enlightening example is suicide. One who commits

suicide does so because one wants to escape the torment of this

life. If he is convinced that death will put a real end to his

existence, he will not commit suicide. He commits suicide because he

intuitively knows that he is only escaping a certain situation and

that he will remain even after the escape.

 

This intuitive awareness is there in every one of us. When it is

properly developed through advaitic rumination, we blossom and become

aware of the nature of consciousness and our immorotality. Dreams

and even the knowledge of samAdhi are not absolutely necessary in

this process.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

 

_______________________________

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

Suppose the dream

> concept had never been there. Suppose the human body and mind go

> to sleep without going through the dream stage and wake up from

> sleep in the same way. Would we ever understand or comprehend

> that there is a state of awareness higher than the waking state?

> If people who have experienced samAdhi come and tell us that

> there is such a state and that our present state of waking

> awareness is nothing but a 'dream' to them, would we ever

> understand it?