Guest guest Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 Namaste. Gitasatsangh continues: traividyaa maa.n somapaaH puuta-paapaa yaGYairishh{}Tvaa svargatiM praarthayante . te puNyam-aasaadya surendralokaM ashnanti divyaan-divi deva-bhogaan.h .. 9\.20.. “The knowers of the three Vedas, the drinkers of the soma, purified of all sins, worshipping me by sacrifices, pray for the way to heaven; they reach the holy world of the lord of the gods and enjoy in heaven the divine pleasures of the gods”. te taM bhuk{}tvaa svarga-lokaM vishaalaM kshiiNe puNye martya-lokaM vishanti . evaM trayii-dharmam-anuprapannaa gataagataM kaama-kaamaa labhante .. 9\.21.. "Having enjoyed the extensive heaven world, they return to this world of mortals on the stock of their merits beings exhausted; thus abiding by the injunctions of the three vedas and desiring objects of desires, they attain to the state of going and returning.” ananyaash-chintayanto maa.n yejanaaH paryupaasate. teshhaa.n nityaabhiyuk{}taanaa.n yogakshemaM vahaamyaham.h .. 9\.22.. “To those men who worship me alone, thinking of no other, of those ever-united, I secure that which is not already possessed and preserve what they already possess”. ye.apy-anya-devataa-bhak{}taa yajante shraddhayaanvitaaH . te.api maam-eva kaunteya yajanty-avidhi-puurvakam.h .. 9\.23.. "Arjuna, even those devotees who, endowed with faith, worship other gods, they too worship Me alone, though through imperfect methods”. ahaM hi sarva-yaGYaanaaM bhok{}taa cha prabhur-eva cha . na tu maam-abhijaananti tattvena-atash-chyavanti te .. 9\.24.. "For I alone am the enjoyer and also the lord of sacrifices; but they do not know me in essence, hence they fall from the path (are subjected to birth and death)." yaanti devavrataa devaanpitR^Inyaanti pitR^ivrataaH . bhuutaani yaanti bhuutejyaa yaanti madyaajino.api maam.h .. 9\.25.. Those who take to the worship of gods go to the gods; those who worship the manes reach the manes; those who adore the spirits reach the spirits and those who worships Me attain Me. Easy references; The Gita Supersite http://www.gitasupersite.org/ contains most of the commentaries including commentaries in many languages. For Gita Dhyana Shlokas/Mantras and Mahatmya /message/advaitin/6987 Adi Shankara's commentary, translated by Swami Gambhirananda, at URL: advaitinGita/Shankara1/gmbCH9.htm Swami Chinmayananda's commentary at URL: advaitinGita/Chinmaya/COMM9.HTM praNAms to all advaitins profvk ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 Namaste The following are Swami Venkatesananda’s comments on Slokas 19 and 20. The realisation of the Absolute is our goal. We may take the smooth path or the rugged one. We may swim across or ride in a ferry-boat. The path of holiness and the path of diabolical beings are not different. Life is the same. But the insight of the holy ones shines brightly whilst the eyesight of the insight of diabolical beings is closed. In our quest we should never for a moment forget the goal. The Vedas and other scriptures are like the ferry-boat. And they are also like the mighty banyan tree that provides cool shade to the weary traveller scorched by the sun (of austerities and of the intense inner effort to transcend the mind).They encourage the despondent soul by providing him with the tangible versions of the intangible, clothing the immaterial with the material, the spirit with form. He who complacently surrenders to these and goes to sleep under the banyan tree, abandoning the quest, exposes himself to the danger of wild animals (of desires and evil actions later in this and subsequent lives). Rituals, forms and scriptural injunctions are useful only so long as we do not forget the real, ultimate goal, which is realisation of the absolute. They do not take us to the destination, but are only pointers without which it may be difficult to find the way. However, they should never be regarded as the goal or a substitute for the goal. Do all the good you can – obviously because you are convinced that you will go to heaven. This conviction moulds your citta (subconscious mind). And it determines your next incarnation – meaning, on dropping this body you will be convinced that you are in heaven! praNAms to all advaitins profvk ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Namaste, I find Gita verse 25 to be quite symbolic indicating that the Lord is just looking for worship from His devotees with love and purity of heart. The Lord is quite careful in the choice of His words in this verse. The seekers are many and everyone achieves according to their deeds! Those who take to the worship of gods go to the gods; those who worship the manes reach the manes; those who adore the spirits reach the spirits and those who worships Me attain Me. By using the word Yah (whosoever) in this connection, the Lord indicated that anyone and everyone can offer Him leaves, flowers, fruits, and water etc. , no matter to which caste or community they belongs and whatever their Asrama or stage in life. The Lord does not discriminate between one individual and another on the ground of physical prowess, external appearance, wealth, age, birth, merits and learning etc. The only condition is that the sentiment of the devotee who offers these things should be absolutely pure and loving. In almost all Hindu temples the worship is always conducted using leaves, flowers, fruits and water (also milk and honey). These materials are available in nature in abundant quantity provided by the plants and trees (and animals) without looking for any rewards! Also nature provides these materials in their purest form for enjoyment of all beings. The Lord symbolically reminds us that we should learn from the plants and animals to express our love toward Him. We shoul offer to God (who represent all beings in the Nature) with a heart overflowing with love and filled with gratitude to think how magnanimous it is of the Lord that He should condescend to accept with pleasure even the smallest gift from the hands of an humble creature. We should remind ourselves that we are just the takers of all the abundant materials from the nature and we just pretend as though we are the givers! In reality, in the nature there are no givers or takers and certainly in appearance there are givers and takers - we seem to think most of the time that are givers even though we look for every opportunity and behave as takers! He whose mind is pure is called a Prayatatma and the Lord indicates that He does not accept any offering from those whose motives are not pure. In the great epic of Mahabharat, the Lord demonstrates this by declining the invitation of Duryodhana (an embodiment of impurity and hatred) for a sumptuous dinner in the palace. Instead, He called on Vidura (an embodiment of goodness and purity of heart), and fondly ate a simple dinner at his house. He partook of the parched rice brought by Sudama (also known as Kuchela) with great relish. He satiated the whole universe by putting into His mouth a stray leaf left in the cooking utensil of Draupadi. The Vidura Episode from Mahabharat: After completing twelve years exile in the forest and one years incognito existence when the Pandavas demanded of Duryodhana the restoration of their kingdom, the latter gave a flat refusal. There- upon Bhagavan Sri Krsna Himself went to the Kaurava Court to negotiate on behalf of the Pandavas. To maintain an outward show of courtesy on that occasion, Duryodhan had made elaborate preparations for the reception of Sri Krsna. When invited to dinner, the Lord refused to dine with him. Questioned by Duryodhana as to the reason for this refusal, the Lord gave the following reply. "Meals are taken under two circumstances," He said, "Where there is love, one partakes of, with great pleasure, whatever is available, in the house. Or, when one is starving, one has to fill the belly with whatever is available anywhere, regardless of the sentiment with which the food may be served. Both these conditions are absent in the present case. You have no love in you, and I am not dying of hunger either." With these words the Lord left his royal palace and proceeded uninvited to Viduras cottage. He blessed Vidura by partaking of the dishes offered by him with the utmost love (vide Mahabharata, Udyoga Parva, 91). So He Refused the rich dishes of Duryodhana in the Royal Palace and happily partook of boiled vegetables at Viduras's cottage. Similar examples can also be found in Mahabharat, Ramayana and Puranas indicating that the Lord is only looking for worship with purity. Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2002 Report Share Posted December 7, 2002 Namaste The viewpoint of the Theosophy school of Adyar, Madras on these slokas and Bhagavadgita in general is contained in the following online edition of Subba Rao's notes on the Bhagavadgita: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/gita-sr/nbg-hp.htm#contents Though there appears to be a substantial difference of the theosophy viewpoint from the advaita viewpoint, Subba Rao's notes are very readable and should be read for their clarity of presentation. praNAms to all advaitins profvk ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2002 Report Share Posted December 7, 2002 Namaste The following are Swami Venkatesananda’s comments on the important sloka No.22. (Note: Incidentally, there was an error in my earlier post. Swamiji’s comments posted in the previous post were on slokas 20 and 21 and not, as recorded by me, on slokas 19 and 20. I am sorry for the inconvenience caused). This is the royal secret, the royal road to the realization of the absolute! We should disengage ourselves from the self-manufactured snare of illusion. Thinking of God for a while and then of the objects of the world for the rest of the time betrays insincerity and a doubt. The test of our sincerity here is the natural attitude of our mind to be ever conscious of God. This habit must be cultivated, realizing that it is on account of his grace that we are able to speak, see, hear, think and so on. By merely becoming aware of this tremendous truth, we are freed from our own motivations and we live free, doing whatever has to be done. We are able to be intensely active, and at the same time constantly be aware of God’s existence. Krishna uses a clever psychological approach here: ‘Think of me always; and I shall protect you’. If God protects only those who constantly think of him, who protects the others? God alone. To him all are equal and he is not partial towards any, except inasmuch as they open themselves to him and therefore receive his grace in greater abundance. If you have the courage and the intelligence to investigate life, you find that that you needed at a certain moment had already been created years ago. The wheat for the bread that you had this morning grew specifically for you three years ago! When the devotee meditates upon the assurance contained in this verse, the hypnotic suggestion of the Lord takes effect upon him and he lets himself go entirely. It dawns upon him like a flash of lightning that God and God alone is the protector of all; and thenceforth he abandons all selfish activity and dedicates himself to the service of mankind in the spirit of the Gita, remembering God constantly. It does not mean that such a devotee will be indifferent to the business of the world; on the contrary he will make himself an egoless, selfless and dynamic instrument in the hands of the Lord, for His will to be done. The actual technique of attaining this stage of being will come up in the further slokas of the Gita. praNAms to all advaitins profvk ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2002 Report Share Posted December 9, 2002 Namaste. (Note: In the following analysis, I am assuming, that the literal meaning of the slokas is already clear. If not, one may go back to post # 15351.) This portion of the Gita, particularly the eight slokas of which the first sextet are being currently dealt with now, is not only located almost in the centre of the gita (357 of the 700 slokas have just been over) but it also contains the central content of the gita. It is in these slokas the unalterable divine verdict is given, after clearly making a distinction between, on the one hand, the Vedantic path that emphasizes an entire self-negation and total surrender to the highest Absolute and, on the other hand, the worldly path which places materialist values at a high priority. This latter path, the worldly path, includes, according to the Lord, all religious (and secular) paths that seek the obtaining of fruits and rewards, either here or hereafter. This seeking of fruits serves only a transient purpose. pravR^itti is the seeking of outer values by an outer knowledge. nivR^itti is the seeking of inner values by an inner seeking. The former results in an outer religion. The latter indicates an internal beatitude. The former has ceremonies and rituals that lead to heavenly bliss after the earthly suffering is over. On the other hand, the latter, namely, the internal seeking, is what is extolled by sloka 22. The external seeking mentioned in sloka 20, leads to the extraordinary worlds above, no doubt, as mentioned in sloka 20, but finally one has to come back to this world, as forewarned in sloka 21, in order to pursue the real seeking, which is the internal quest. Until the true aim of mortal existence is made the (only?) goal of the seeker, the seeking of outer values, even though it be heavenly values, even though it be worship of divines as described in sloka 23, will only put you in an endless loop of slokas 20 and 21 and never beyond. Final happiness, however, does not lie beyond. The opportunity given to man in this birth has to be utilized not by means of slokas 20 and 23, because that will make him subject to the what-looks-like-never-ending loop of samsAra indicated by sloka 21. All this is imperfect physical human nature. This has to give place to the godly love hailed in sloka 22. The supreme and universal divine should be made the whole object of one’s living. No more egoistic satisfaction, terrestrial or celestial. The godliness praised in sloka 22 does not mean that one has to divorce oneself from life. It does not mean that one has to miss the fullness of life. That is the divine assurance proclaimed by the Lord in sloka 22. A few words, now, at the mundane level, about sloka 22. The bottom line to which He is leading is “My devotee perishes never” (na me bhaktaH praNashyati -- IX – 31). But we do see day in and day out, God’s devotees suffering – in fact, suffering very hard. In fact very often, we see that a person who has no faith in God, not only gets along well but seems to prosper without any obstacles to his progress. This observation has of course a cynical aspect to it and Hinduism explains it away as a result of prArabdha karma, that is, those aggregate of actions and thoughts which have brought this birth in the first place and which have begun to blossom forth into their consequences and so no force on earth can stop them happening. In spite of this concept of karma we very often hear people exclaiming: ‘Oh God! Why are you so cruel to me? I have been following what all you said in the gita. I have been worshipping you all the time. ....’ and so on. What exactly is the meaning of the assurance of God in sloka 22? He seems to say there that He will take care of all the needs of the devotee. Now let us analyse our human psychology a bit here. It is generally true that, on an average, good and bad things happen to us in a mixed way. But whenever good things happen to us, most of us have the habit of taking credit by assigning human causes – either emanating from our own egoistic idea of our capabilities or generated by us from our wishful thinking in terms of our friends and relatives. For instance a promotion in the office may be ascribed to one’s efficiency or to one’s good contacts. On the other hand, when unpleasant things happen to us, on an average the human mind tries to blame somebody else for the happening, and, if no such alibi is possible, we blame it on fate or God. Now comes the relevance of the words ‘yogakshemam vahAmyaham’ from the Lord. Either you believe in it or you don’t. In the first case, you must hold God responsible both for the good and the bad that happen to you. In the second case, for both you are yourself responsible. In either case, there is no logic for taking the credit on yourself for the good, and alternatively blaming God when things go wrong. So far it is easy to understand. But a more profound and ticklish problem arises in the first case, namely, in the case of those who believe in the promise of God that He bears the brunt of our yoga and kshema. The actual wording of this hypnotic promise in sloka 22 is as follows: To those people who worship Me alone, WITH NO OTHER THOUGHT IN THEIR MINDS, OF THOSE EVER-UNITED, I take it on myself to obtain for them what is not already possessed and preserve for them what they already possess. The capitalized words are important. Who are such people? Only those who are fully convinced of the thought that Vasudeva, the Lord, (VII - 19) is everything for them. But once we believe Vasudeva is everything for us, then there ought to be no necessity to analyse things that happen to us and weigh which of them is good and which of them is bad. Whatever happens is because of the Lord’s will and we have to accept it in that sense. So the thought that it is a cruel God who brings suffering to his devotees should have never crossed such a mind. Even at a more elementary level, it is not legitimate to complain. Very often we tend to think that the Lord should take care of all our needs, because of his promise in sloka 22. Our needs could be as trivial as our being able to be in time to catch the daily chartered limousine to our office. They could be as substantial as a project report being accepted by the boss for a reward. Or it could have a life-time importance as the decision on a wedding proposal. Or it might be a life and death problem involving cure of a long-suffered sickness. Whatever it may be, the veracity of the promise made by the Lord in sloka 22 should not be tested by any such matters of the material mundane world. Because, when the Lord promises to take care of us, His promise is in terms of our ultimate spiritual uplift. Maybe, as we go along, we may experience the bounties of the Lord in terms of a reward, a cure of a sickness, or a spouse that we have been longing to decide on. All these are just the overflowing of His Grace for which we should be thankful no doubt; but we cannot demand them of the Lord. This is the punchline of the whole thing. When God promises to save us, He promises to save our soul from slipping down the ladder of spirituality. It is unfair to His omnipotence and His omniscience to fault Him for ‘failure’ to take care of our daily needs. When He says ‘My devotee never perishes’ He probably only means: ‘My devotee never slips back from the level of spirituality to which he (or she) has evolved’. The so-called ‘failure’ to take care of our needs may after all be the manner in which He is lifting us from our lower levels of spiritual evolution. The 'yoga-kshema' of taking us beyond the loop of sloka 21 is a greater 'yoga-kshema' than the yoga-kshema of our earthly existence. praNAms to all advaitins profvk ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 Namaste all. Hardly anything can now be added to the wealth of meaning conveyed by the several interpretations we already have. However, duality versus Unity strikes me as the central theme of these group of verses. On one side is almost the whole of this world that sees God as separate from itself and endeavours hard to supplicate Him. On the other side are the enlightened, courageous few, who have reasoned out and realized that there is nothing, not even themselves, but God. Thus, the case also becomes limited versus the limitless. As long as I see something other than me, I am creating. Creating what? Space, time and an infinite number of worlds (lokas). Naturally, therefore, I have a lot of places to go. I need a full- fledged travel agency to take care of my travel needs. When I go, I naturally can return. I can get tired too which is hurting! Perambulation becomes my nature. So it is said: "People who do not know My true transcendental nature (in essence) fall into repeated cycles of birth and death (9.24)". Whereas, when unity reigns, there are no me, no separate God, no space-time and no worlds. I, therefore, have no going and returning. The One without a second does not go and come. It is Everywhereness and Alwaysness. All dharmAs belong to the realm of duality. The instruction by the Lord (at the end of BG) to renounce all dharmas is, therefore, a call to reason out and eliminate the sense of duality. The reward is spontaneous yogakshema resulting from Absolute Unity without any sense of separation. That yogakshema in fact is our real nature which we are not aware of and deluded to think we must seek out in a world of plurality. When separation ends, our yogakshema nature (fullness, wantlessness, full self-adeqacy) shines out marking the end of frantic perambulations. Pranams. Madathil Nair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 Namaste Nairji: Thanks for bringing the essence of Gita within the preview of the advaita philosophy. The points that you have brought out are quite important for a clearer understanding of Gita. Let me provide the following points as additional clarifications for the statement, "renounce all Dharmas." The Lord certainly doesn't want us to take this statement literally and provide us the license to abandon all dharms and take this as a the path for liberation! As you correctly pointed out, the message is quite subtle and we need to renounce all pluralities of thoughts. Let me give an example here to illustrate the point (please note that any example or analogy is only useful for illustrating a specific point). The first time when we try to learn Bicycle, we do not want to ride due to the 'fear' of falling. The fear arose in our mind because of the false notion (in complete understanding of Dharma) that the cycle with two-wheels is unstable and is likely to fall sometime or later. Also, we fear that we are not capable to ride the bike even though others were successful. But the Guru (parent or friend or relative), who has driven the cycle assured us that the Bicycle is very stable in motion and all that required is that the person who rides the cycle should just practice it for few days! Most important, the Guru also provides guidance and support during the learning process. After few rides, our fear and false notion disappear, slowly self confidence emerges and we remove the plural thoughts of fall and injuries. While learning, we might have fallen few times but we are convinced that our fall is due to our own faults and not due to bike.. Arjuna's situation is quite similar in that he has created false notions on fighting a war where killing his friends and relatives become inevitable. Arjuna explained his understanding of 'Dharmas' and why he wanted to abandon fighting. The Lord removed all his false notions during the 18 chapters of Gita and finally asks Arjuna to renounce his false notions of Dharma (I believe that Dharma here is in reference to "intellectual reasoning which including self created notion of right and wrong." With thorough understanding and practice of Dharma we pursue actions without entertaining thoughts such as `consequences.' (Chapter 2, Verse 47 on Karma Yoga). Our True Divine Nature adopt to the Dharma which is free from thoughts, notions, logic and explanations. Human Dharma with divine nature is to conduct actions for 'Yogakshema - universal happiness and well-being.' Our problem is that become dual – human and divine and entertain dualities and pluralities and fail to perform our actions spontaneously without fear. The Lord comes to Arjuna's (and ours) to rescue us from the duality and ask us to renounce such thoughts. Now coming back to the bicycle example, our action of riding the bike can become spontaneous only with practice and strong conviction. When we earnestly practice (sadhana) with sraddha (faith and strong conviction and dedication), all notions will spontaneously disappear and our actions also will become spontaneous. The subtle message that `the renunciation of dharmas' should be also spontaneous and this is the end and not the means! Warmest regards, Ram Chandrran advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair>" <madathilnair> wrote: > Namaste all. > .............. > However, duality versus Unity strikes me as the central theme of > these group of verses. > ................. > All dharmAs belong to the realm of duality. The instruction by the > Lord (at the end of BG) to renounce all dharmas is, therefore, a call > to reason out and eliminate the sense of duality. The reward is > spontaneous yogakshema resulting from Absolute Unity without any > sense of separation. ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 Namaste: Let me add some additional thoughts in continuation of my earlier post on the subject of 'renunciation of dharma.' The ultimate goal of Gita is to help us to achieve the peak of spiritual maturity while pursuing the worldly life. Gita is a great manual for the practical vedantins (all of us fall into this category) who have to cope up with situations where one dharma overlaps another dharma. We play multiple roles of duties and we need to recognize the hierarchical order of the Dharmas. For example, while raising our kids, we have multiple roles to play - the teacher, judge and parent. We need to know the dharmas of a parent, teacher and a judge and should apply them at appropriate times. Gita suggests that we should apply our discriminating intellect and renounce (detach) the father dharma, the teacher dharma and the judge dharma at appropriate times. The prison guard who execute a prisoner on death penalty has to renounce the notion of adharma of killing another human being and the dharma of prison guard supersedes all secondary dharmas. The doctor who performs a surgery should not worry about the consequences of a failure of the treatment. Arjuna faced a similar situation and he has the role of a soldier and he assumed the roles of friend, relative and disciple. It seems that he more importance to the dharma of a friend, a relative or a student than the dharma of a soldier. Lord came to his rescue and suggested the necessity for him to renounce his roles as a friend, a relative and a teacher. Here the renunciation of dharma is just a reference to the roles that he inappropriately assumed. The Lord asks Arjuna to detach his multiple roles focus only as the role of a soldier. Everyday all of us face a similar situation like Arjuna and we should remember that - the world is a stage directed by the Lord and we are just actors playing different roles directed by Him. Just like the actors of the drama, if we play our roles without emotional attachment to the consequences, we can focus fully on our role without worrying. The world that we live exhibit diversity but there is perfect unity within that diversity. We fail to recognize the unity and we treat our multiple roles 'real' and create multiple personalities that never existed! In conclusion, with true devotion (as demonstrated by Arjuna) we can attain the spiritual maturity and we will reach the peak of spiritual maturity to spontaneously renounce the dharmas and conduct our actions spontaneously. How do we recognize the hierarchical order of the dharmas of the roles that we play? The answer to this question is not easy and we should look for guidance from the Shastras, Puranas and the Epics (Ramayana and Mahabharat). Sage Vyasa has skillfully developed the manual of Gita and provided necessary reference materials in the form of Puranas and Mahabharat. We can't attain spiritual maturity by just renouncing the dharmas and lead an adharmic life. Spiritual maturity happens slowly and steadily and the most important ingredients are His Grace and 'shraddha'. This transformation begins with strict adherence to dharmas and the spiritual person recognizes that 'dharmas' are just the tools to reach the peak and at the peak the tools (dharmas) are to be renounced. Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, "Ram Chandran <rchandran@c...>" <rchandran@c...> wrote: > ¡K¡K¡K „« When we earnestly practice (sadhana) with sraddha (faith and strong „« conviction and dedication), all notions will spontaneously > disappear and our actions also will become spontaneous. The subtle „« message is that `the renunciation of dharmas' should be also spontaneous and this is the end and not the means! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote: > This portion of the Gita, particularly the eight slokas of which > the first sextet are being currently dealt with now, is not > only located almost in the centre of the gita (357 of the 700 > slokas have just been over) but it also contains the central > content of the gita. It is in these slokas the unalterable > divine verdict is given, Namaste, Jnaneshvara says this about the 9th chapter: http://www.bvbpune.org/chap10.html ...."Now the Mahabharata contains in its hundred thousand verses the numerous views contained in the Vedas (26-30). And all the import of the Mahabharata has found its way in the seven hundred verses of the Gita, which embodies the conversation between lord Krishna and Arjuna. That import is contained in the single ninth chapter. I was, therefore, doubtful whether I shall be able to explain clearly the import of this chapter. Why should I flaunt my ability to do so? For lumps of jaggery and sugar are made from the same sugarcane juice, and yet they have different flavours. Similarly, some chapters describe in clear words the doctrine of Brahman; some show the way to the abode of Brahman and some, which try to know Brahman, lose themselves, along with the knowledge, in the nature of Brahman. Such are the chapter of the Gita, but the ninth chapter is such that one cannot describe it adequately. O my master, if I have lain open the truth in it, it is entirely due to your grace (31-35). The outer garment of a sage (Vashishtha) shed light like the sun; another sage (Vishvamitra) created another world; and one (Shri Ram) built a bridge of stones and took his army across the sea; one (Hanuman), immediately after his birth, seized the sun in his hand, thinking it to be a fruit and sage Agastya drank the sea in one sip. In the same way, you made a dumb creature like me speak about the incomprehensible Brahman. Just as you cannot compare the war between Ram and Ravana with any war except itself, so I say that Lord Krishna's talk in the ninth chapter cannot be matched by anything except itself. Only the knowers of truth, who have comprehended the meaning of the Gita, can settle the question. I have thus explained to you the nine chapters according to my ability...." It is said that Jnaneshvara was reciting this chapter when he entered 'Sanjivana' samadhi in Alandi. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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