Guest guest Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 What is the advaitan dogma concerninf vishnu avatars ? Are they willfull,or non willfull, are they isvara or non isvara ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2002 Report Share Posted December 21, 2002 --- "sssshiva2002 <sssshiva2002" <sssshiva2002 wrote: > > > What is the advaitan dogma concerninf vishnu avatars ? > > Are they willfull,or non willfull, > are they isvara or non isvara ? My friend Dogma implies a blind belief. First advaita is not a belief. there is no need to believe that one is there and one is conscious. I would rather reframe the question - how does advaita explains the avataar. avataara means that which comes down. In the case of jiiva-s who have not realized they comedown (take birth) propelled by their own vaasana-s. Once an individual is transcended by realization that one is not a jiiva but one is totallity - then there are no more vaasna-s left. That is jiivan mukta state. Now the totality itself can comedown in the form of a being taking the suitable body/mind/intellect that is appropriate for the need. Now the need is set not by the any individual vaasana-s since there are none, it is set by samashhTi vaasana-s or - what we call 'on popular demand'. Collective vaasana-s of the group demands the totality to manifest in being form to fulful the samashhTi vaasana-s. Hence Krishna declares I come down to uplift the good and to punish the bad for the protection of the good if the good demands that. It will be more for fulfillment of the desires of the samashhTi that totality takes the form of a being. The form the capabilities etc depends on the purpose for comming. That my fried is the advaitic explanation of avataara as I understand. Hari OM! Sadananda Now The to ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2002 Report Share Posted December 22, 2002 advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada> wrote: > > --- "sssshiva2002 <sssshiva2002>" <sssshiva2002> > wrote: > > > > > > What is the advaitan dogma concerninf vishnu avatars ? > > > > Are they willfull,or non willfull, > > are they isvara or non isvara ? > > My friend Dogma implies a blind belief. First advaita is not a belief. > there is no need to believe that one is there and one is conscious. > > I would rather reframe the question - how does advaita explains the > avataar. > > avataara means that which comes down. In the case of jiiva-s who have > not realized they comedown (take birth) propelled by their own > vaasana-s. > > Once an individual is transcended by realization that one is not a jiiva > but one is totallity - then there are no more vaasna-s left. That is > jiivan mukta state. > > Now the totality itself can comedown in the form of a being taking the > suitable body/mind/intellect that is appropriate for the need. Now the > need is set not by the any individual vaasana-s since there are none, it > is set by samashhTi vaasana-s or - what we call 'on popular demand'. > Collective vaasana-s of the group demands the totality to manifest in > being form to fulful the samashhTi vaasana-s. Hence Krishna declares I > come down to uplift the good and to punish the bad for the protection of > the good if the good demands that. It will be more for fulfillment of > the desires of the samashhTi that totality takes the form of a being. > The form the capabilities etc depends on the purpose for comming. > > That my fried is the advaitic explanation of avataara as I understand. > > Hari OM! > Sadananda Namaste,IMO. An Avatar is the same thing as a Bodhisattva. It is a jiva that gave off complete and permanent mukti by preserving the thought to help. In other words the remaining sheath is used as a vehicle by Sakti. For once all thought has gone Nirguna doesn't descend into what isn't. ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 Namaste. Bhagwat Geeta says, whenever evil raises its head, an avatAra results. At the end of the 11th Chapter of Saptasati (Devi Mahatmya), Mother assures that She will take avatArAs whenever demons afflict the world. AvatAra is a spontaneous mechanism through which excess of evil is suppressed and balance restored. This process keeps repeating on the collective icchAsakti and sankalpasakti of the world. Good, evil and avatArAs are a part of duality. AvatArAs have to keep necessarily occurring as long duality lasts. As advaita endavours to undo duality, it need not engage in providing an explanation for avatArAs. However, from the point of view of Indian thought, I see that Prof. Krishnamurthy-Ji has already provided a splendid explanation. Pranams. Madathil Nair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2002 Report Share Posted December 24, 2002 --- in order for Karma to be affected on the individual, there must be a conscious awareness of the individuals actions, a tallying and decision making entity, this is logic, for this being to be fully aware of all things at all times and to decide the course of everyones destiny by necessity the being must be willfull, and self aware. how does this being ,fully aware of all things, become a jiva under the maya of this world, by necessity it is existing everywhere, and directing karmic interactions, etc. Such a being by definition cannot be subject to delusion since it is always aware of everything. how does this understanding ,of a transcendent being or Isvara, lose it's self awareness and maintain the universe at the same time ? In advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair>" <madathilnair> wrote: > Namaste. > > Bhagwat Geeta says, whenever evil raises its head, an avatAra > results. At the end of the 11th Chapter of Saptasati (Devi > Mahatmya), Mother assures that She will take avatArAs whenever demons > afflict the world. > > AvatAra is a spontaneous mechanism through which excess of evil is > suppressed and balance restored. This process keeps repeating on the > collective icchAsakti and sankalpasakti of the world. > > Good, evil and avatArAs are a part of duality. AvatArAs have to keep > necessarily occurring as long duality lasts. > > As advaita endavours to undo duality, it need not engage in providing > an explanation for avatArAs. However, from the point of view of > Indian thought, I see that Prof. Krishnamurthy-Ji has already > provided a splendid explanation. > > Pranams. > > Madathil Nair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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