Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 sir, i am thanful for posting the message. now iam going to give you all a better example of worship that is still followed in kerala.you might have brushed it aside as one of the mad example,in which you quoted swami vivekanand,comparing bengal and kerala.i beg to disagree with you in that the keralites are far better in their approach to god.when i asked you why there is difference in the worship, i meant not their political approach, but the hindu approach.i am atamilien,who has seen kerala and tamilnad,and also other parts of india.the religious fanatism is not there in kerala,atleast in the worship.might be being the birth place of adi shankara,they rejected the ramanujas philosophy.they have proved that vishnu and shiva are the same,and part of the only one ie "THE PARABRAHMAM".LET ME CONTINUE LATER. CDR BVN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer" <vaidyanathiyer wrote: i meant not their political approach, but the hindu approach.i am atamilien,who has seen kerala and tamilnad,and also other parts of india.the religious fanatism is not there in kerala,atleast in the worship.might be being the birth place of adi shankara,they rejected the ramanujas philosophy. -------- Dear Shri Vaithyanathiyer, If they rejected the Ramanuja's philosophy that means clearly that they are fanatics and sticking to their own mode or idol for worship! ------- in as much as they they have proved that vishnu and shiva are the same,and part of the only one ie "THE PARABRAHMAM". --------- Here ,we have to brush up our understanding further and try to realise that: Vishnu is Parabrahman , that: Shiva is Parabrahman , that :Shiva and Vishnu are NOT just a part each of the Parabrahaman BUT each is Wholely The Parabrahman.And let us try to realise that:The Parabrahman we are talking about is the non-dual Advaitic concept of "THE SELF" That You verily ARE. Tat twam Asi. Hari Om! Swaminarayan. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 Namaste Sri Swaminarayan: You have stated beautifully the advaitic position beautifully. Bhajans in praise of various gods also focus on the same theme. In general, Bhajans (a form of devotional worship by singing the names of Gods) always begin with a Ganesha Stothram and followed by songs in praise of Vishnu, Shiva, Saraswati, Lakshmi, Rama, Krishna, Sri Hanuman (bhajans also include songs in praise of Allah and jesus) etc. But Bhajan singers believe in the unity in the diversity of songs. It is quite remarkable to see that everyone who attends the Bhajans participate entusiastically with a unified mind! Ganhiji's favorite Bhajan - 'Ragupathi raghava' was in praise of Rama, Jesus and Allah!: Ragupathi raghava rajaram, patita pavana seetaram ...... Iishvar allaah tere naam sabako sanmati de bhagavaan ...... Tamil Bhajan: Hariyai Ninaithal Enna, Harani Ninaithal Enna, Iruvarum Onru Endru Ninai Maname! (Whenever you think about Vishnu or Shiva, make sure that your mind is focused on the fact they are one at the same!) Tamil Proverb: Hariyum and Shivanum Ondru - Ariyathavar Vayile Mannu (Shiva and Vishnu symbalizes the same Brahman - those are not aware of this will be deprived of happiness!) Plenty of fanatics are available in almost all religions and most of them suffer due to their ignorance and intolerance. As Gandhiji once said, we can't change the world, but we can certainly change our attitude towards others so that we can accept them as they are! Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote: > ..... > in as much as they they have > proved that vishnu and shiva are the same,and part of the only one ie "THE PARABRAHMAM". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 sir, when we talk of advaita and vishistadvaita,i can tell you the rigidness is only in ramanujas philosophy.the shiva devotees or advaita does not prohibit them from going and worshiping in vishnu shrines.in kerala allshrines are treated same,and only namboodri bramins do poojas.i donot understand what you mean by shiva and vishnu are 'each is wholey the parabrahmam'.you mean we have-two different lokams ie vishnu and shiva and both are seperate but part of parabrahmam. cdr bvn-- In advaitin, Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote: > > > "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer>" <vaidyanathiyer> wrote: > i meant not their political approach, but > the hindu approach.i am atamilien,who has seen kerala and > tamilnad,and also other parts of india.the religious fanatism is not > there in kerala,atleast in the worship.might be being the birth place > of adi shankara,they rejected the ramanujas philosophy. > > -------- > > Dear Shri Vaithyanathiyer, > > If they rejected the Ramanuja's philosophy that means clearly that they are fanatics and sticking to their own mode or idol for worship! > > ------- > > in as much as they they have > proved that vishnu and shiva are the same,and part of the only one ie "THE PARABRAHMAM". > > --------- > > Here ,we have to brush up our understanding further and try to realise that: Vishnu is Parabrahman , that: Shiva is Parabrahman , that :Shiva and Vishnu are NOT just a part each of the Parabrahaman BUT each is Wholely The Parabrahman.And let us try to realise that:The Parabrahman we are talking about is the non-dual Advaitic concept of "THE SELF" That You verily ARE. > > Tat twam Asi. > > Hari Om! > > Swaminarayan. > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 -If they rejected the Ramanuja's philosophy that means clearly that they are fanatics and sticking to their own mode or idol for worship sir, when i said they rejected it does not mean they stopped worship of vishnu,it means they believed that both shiva and vishnu need to be worshiped together.there is no religious fanatism in kerala.but it is present in tamilnad,which is what we should remove. the provrebs"harium sivanum onnu.ariyathavan vayil mannu" has to be addressed to the vaishnivites,and not against shivites.as the basic concept of one parabrahmam is not there in ramanujas philosophy. 'The Parabrahman we are talking about is the non-dual Advaitic concept of "THE SELF" The concept of parabrahmam is not only for the self,but also represent the supreme shakti which is nothing but paramrahmam,which we must try to realse in our self. Even the slokas 9 and 10 of vishnu saharanama talks about the same.but this is quoted differently by parasara battar in his bhasya,which is accepted by vishistadvaitins.thy reject the shankaras bhasya,which clearely says that the god that is extolled in the hymn is parabrahmam. cdr bvn-- In advaitin, Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan> wrote: > > > "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer>" <vaidyanathiyer> wrote: > i meant not their political approach, but > the hindu approach.i am atamilien,who has seen kerala and > tamilnad,and also other parts of india.the religious fanatism is not > there in kerala,atleast in the worship.might be being the birth place > of adi shankara,they rejected the ramanujas philosophy. > > -------- > > Dear Shri Vaithyanathiyer, > > If they rejected the Ramanuja's philosophy that means clearly that they are fanatics and sticking to their own mode or idol for worship! > > ------- > > in as much as they they have > proved that vishnu and shiva are the same,and part of the only one ie "THE PARABRAHMAM". > > --------- > > Here ,we have to brush up our understanding further and try to realise that: Vishnu is Parabrahman , that: Shiva is Parabrahman , that :Shiva and Vishnu are NOT just a part each of the Parabrahaman BUT each is Wholely The Parabrahman.And let us try to realise that:The Parabrahman we are talking about is the non-dual Advaitic concept of "THE SELF" That You verily ARE. > > Tat twam Asi. > > Hari Om! > > Swaminarayan. > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 My dear Noble devotee of Sri Sankara Bhagavatpujyapada, Shiva:ya Vishnu ru:pa:ya Shiva ru:pa:ya Vishnave: Shivascha hrudayag Vishnur Vishnuscha Hrudayag Shiah Yatha:ntharam Na pasya:mi thatha: me: svasthi me: ra:yushu " Shiva is Vishnu and Vishnu is Shiva The Heart of Shiva is Vishnu and That of Vishnu is Shiva" In the Krama Srushti Theory of Creation, It is very clearly mentioned that Eswara becomes all these Brahma, Vishnu and Maheswara On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer wrote : >-If they rejected the Ramanuja's philosophy that means clearly >that >they are fanatics and sticking to their own mode or idol for >worship >sir, >when i said they rejected it does not mean they stopped worship >of >vishnu,it means they believed that both shiva and vishnu need to >be >worshiped together.there is no religious fanatism in kerala.but >it is >present in tamilnad,which is what we should remove. > >the provrebs"harium sivanum onnu.ariyathavan vayil mannu" has to >be >addressed to the vaishnivites,and not against shivites.as the >basic >concept of one parabrahmam is not there in ramanujas >philosophy. > >'The Parabrahman we are talking about is the non-dual Advaitic >concept of "THE SELF" > > The concept of parabrahmam is not only for the self,but also >represent the supreme shakti which is nothing but >paramrahmam,which >we must try to realse in our self. > Even the slokas 9 and 10 of vishnu saharanama talks about >the >same.but this is quoted differently by parasara battar in his >bhasya,which is accepted by vishistadvaitins.thy reject the >shankaras >bhasya,which clearely says that the god that is extolled in the >hymn >is parabrahmam. > >cdr bvn-- In advaitin, Swaminarayan T ><tvswaminarayan> wrote: > > > > > > "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer>" <vaidyanathiyer> >wrote: > > i meant not their political approach, but > > the hindu approach.i am atamilien,who has seen kerala and > > tamilnad,and also other parts of india.the religious fanatism >is >not > > there in kerala,atleast in the worship.might be being the >birth >place > > of adi shankara,they rejected the ramanujas philosophy. > > > > -------- > > > > Dear Shri Vaithyanathiyer, > > > > If they rejected the Ramanuja's philosophy that means clearly >that >they are fanatics and sticking to their own mode or idol for >worship! > > > > ------- > > > > in as much as they they have > > proved that vishnu and shiva are the same,and part of the only >one >ie "THE PARABRAHMAM". > > > > --------- > > > > Here ,we have to brush up our understanding further and try >to >realise that: Vishnu is Parabrahman , that: Shiva is Parabrahman >, >that :Shiva and Vishnu are NOT just a part each of the >Parabrahaman >BUT each is Wholely The Parabrahman.And let us try to realise >that:The Parabrahman we are talking about is the non-dual >Advaitic >concept of "THE SELF" That You verily ARE. > > > > Tat twam Asi. > > > > Hari Om! > > > > Swaminarayan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > > > > > > >Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of >nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. >Advaitin List Archives available at: >http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ >To Post a message send an email to : advaitin >Messages Archived at: >advaitin/messages > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Dear SwamiNarayanji, You talk almost like an Advaitin, but lacks the unity to accept other beliefs. the wording of your own, slike the following shows the mental non-acceptance of one part of India. Kerala Quote: "If they rejected the Ramanuja's philosophy that means clearly that they are fanatics and sticking to their own mode or idol for worship!" UnQuote: Ramanuja is not the one and only answer or end for the Vedanta or Vishishtadwaita. There is no point in comparing, comparison makes the mind to go hay way, and we will think only the channel which we are comparing! Not the real teching of the Great Masters Actually Tamilnadu has got such reservations, like in Vaishnavites itself there is Thenkala, Vadakala, Vaishnavites do not go to the temples of Lord Shiva etc... And the sublte non-acceptance of others other than Tamils, the example is non-acceptance of Hindi as National language. Any religion or any Saint or any GURU is not superior or inferior, it is like all in one body, keeping this in mind we need to practice Advaita. Our Mind have the habit of comparison always, It does not mean that if you are not accepting one acharya You are fanatic. It is best to stick on to one Acharaya instead of learning all the techings of different Acharayas and get confused Mentally & intellectually. May GOD Bless us all to realize the Unity in Diversity. Instead of writing this cheap things, why can't we all meditate and realize Sir. Lot of times we go away from the Advaita Subject and the mental colors in us comes out. This is not a user group to fight and show our differences. This user group is to unite our thoughts and then, make our mind with out any thought and realize ourselves! Please focus on Advaita instead of writing something. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad --- Swaminarayan T <tvswaminarayan wrote: > > > "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer" > <vaidyanathiyer wrote: > i meant not their political approach, but > the hindu approach.i am atamilien,who has seen kerala and > tamilnad,and also other parts of india.the religious fanatism is > not > there in kerala,atleast in the worship.might be being the birth > place > of adi shankara,they rejected the ramanujas philosophy. > > -------- > > Dear Shri Vaithyanathiyer, > > If they rejected the Ramanuja's philosophy that means clearly that > they are fanatics and sticking to their own mode or idol for > worship! > > ------- > > in as much as they they have > proved that vishnu and shiva are the same,and part of the only one > ie "THE PARABRAHMAM". > > --------- > > Here ,we have to brush up our understanding further and try to > realise that: Vishnu is Parabrahman , that: Shiva is Parabrahman , > that :Shiva and Vishnu are NOT just a part each of the Parabrahaman > BUT each is Wholely The Parabrahman.And let us try to realise > that:The Parabrahman we are talking about is the non-dual Advaitic > concept of "THE SELF" That You verily ARE. > > Tat twam Asi. > > Hari Om! > > Swaminarayan. > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 "Ram Chandran <rchandran" <rchandran wrote: Bhajans in praise of various gods also focus on the same theme. In general, Bhajans (a form of devotional worship by singing the names of Gods) always begin with a Ganesha Stothram and followed by songs in praise of Vishnu, Shiva, Saraswati, Lakshmi, Rama, Krishna, Sri Hanuman (bhajans also include songs in praise of Allah and jesus) etc. But Bhajan singers believe in the unity in the diversity of songs. It is quite remarkable to see that everyone who attends the Bhajans participate entusiastically with a unified mind! Ganhiji's favorite Bhajan - 'Ragupathi raghava' was in praise of Rama, Jesus and Allah!: Ragupathi raghava rajaram, patita pavana seetaram ...... Iishvar allaah tere naam sabako sanmati de bhagavaan -------- Well said indeed Ramachandraji ! My mom ( I am talking of the 1940s in Trichy) put us all together everyday in prayer from 7 p.m. to 7.30p.m. The bhajans were very much in praise of all the gods one by one as mentioned by you in your post and would invariably end with a Bhajan on Pranava :"Hari Om tat sat paramaatmane". This was followed by a 'silence session'for half an hour where we were not to make any noise and were to do, whatever we wanted to do, in silence. We were seven of us,brothers sisters and cousin brother all school going children in the age group +6 to 15 ..It was that training that we got in our childhood that keeps us attached to each other and to God in Prayer. Indeed,though today, the family consists of just one child or rarely two,it is our responsibility to instill in kids the attitude to pray together as often and as regularly as we can. ---------- Tamil Bhajan: Hariyai Ninaithal Enna, Harani Ninaithal Enna, Iruvarum Onru Endru Ninai Maname! (Whenever you think about Vishnu or Shiva, make sure that your mind is focused on the fact they are one at the same!) Tamil Proverb: Hariyum and Shivanum Ondru - Ariyathavar Vayile Mannu (Shiva and Vishnu symbalizes the same Brahman - those are not aware of this will be deprived of happiness!) -- All these need to be hammered into all stupid heads!!! ----- Plenty of fanatics are available in almost all religions and most of them suffer due to their ignorance and intolerance. As Gandhiji once said, we can't change the world, but we can certainly change our attitude towards others so that we can accept them as they are! ------------------------------- Is that not verily "Tolerence"? ----------------------------- Warmest regards, Ram Chandran ----------------------------- Hari Om ! Swaminarayan. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 \ Nama Shivaya Mata cha Parvathi Devi, Pita devo Maheswara, Bandhava Shivabhaktascha, Swadeso Bhuvanatrayam... Shivoham Shivoham Shivaswaroopam Shiva is having five different forms like Brahma - Srishti, Vishnu - Sthiti, Shankar - Samhara, Maheshwa - Thirodhana and Sadashiva - Anugraha. The Sthoola roopas of the above, is known as Pancha Bhutas. Brahma the creator – In the form of Earth (Bhoomi): Our body is made of sand, because of this reason our body becomes sand or ashes after our death. Also the holy Bible and Khur-An says that man is made from the Earth. In the Brahmanda Purana, it is describing that Earth is created by Brahma Deva. It shows Brahma is the Creator of all of us. Origin: Brahma was created from the right side of Sadashiva. Vishnu the Preserver – In the form of Water (Jal): We can’t live for a moment without water as our body is having around 80% of water. The lotus flower in the hands of Lord Vishnu shows his control over the water. Brahmanda Purana says water came from the body of Vishnu as he was Worshiping GOD Shiva. It shows Vishnu is the one who preserves us. Origin: Vishnu is created from the left side of Sadhashiva. As shiva is Ardha Nareeswara, left side of Shiva is Devi (Shakti). The story of Dharma Sasta (Ayyappa) shows it, as Vishnu takes the form of Mohini, for Dharma Sastra Avatar for the destruction of the empire of Mahishi (Sister of Mahishasura). Rudra the Destroyer – In the form of Fire (Agni): Fire can destroy everything in this world in a moment. The body temperature shows us the presence of Fire in our body. The third eye of Shankar shows his control over the Fire. Right eye of Lord Shankar is Surya (The Sun) Left eye Chandra (The Moon) and third eye Agni known as Vaiswanara. It shows Shankar is the one who destroys our body after our death and the whole galaxy at the end of Kalpa. Origin: Shankar is created directly from the Chest of Sadashiva. Maheshwara the Disappearer – In the form of Air (Vayu): Pranavayu represents presence of Air in our Body. Air can take anything to anywhere. After our death, Maheshwara is the one who takes our Atma to his own body. Atma is invisibale, same like Air. Origin: Same as Shankar. Sadashiva who bless everybody – In the form of Sky (Akash): In our body, Atma represents Sky. Everybody knows, that the blessings comes from the Sky as there is the one and only Supreme Soul means ParamAtma also known as Parabrahma, ParamaShiva, Parameshwara, Mahadeva etc. Origin: Don’t have an origin (Aadi) or end (Anth). We can also see these Pancha Bhutas on the body of Shiva. 1. Vibhuti (The Holy Ash) represents Earth (Bhoomi). It also shows we have to return to him after our death, as Shiva is the origin of all. 2. Ganga Devi (River Ganges) represents Water (Jala). 3. The Trinetra (Third eye) represents Fire (Agni). 4. The Kombu and Damaru (Kind of music instruments) Represents Air (Vayu). 5. The Chandra (Moon) Represents Sky (Akash). These five are present in our body As per the Brahmanda Purana, Sky is the origin of Pancha Bhutas (Five Elements). The flow is like: Sky->Air->Fire->Water->Earth. At the time of Pralaya, it happens in reverse i.e, everything returns to the Sky like: Earth->Water->Fire->Air->Sky. Supreme Soul Shiva is the only one who remains the same after Brahmanda Pralaya with Goddess Adi Parasakti (Goddess Lalita Maha Tripurasundari). (Aum Shri Maheshwara Mahakalpa Maha Tandava Sakshinyei Namaha – Lalita Sahasranamam). As other dieties are worshiped in the form of Murthis (Vigrahas), GOD Shiva is worshiped as Linga as Shiva is not having a single form. Worship of of Shivalinga is equal to the worship of 33 crore devas (ShivaPuran). That means if we worship Shiva, it is not necessary to worship other Dieties. If we put some water on the root of a tree, it reaches upto all branches and the leaves (ShivaPuran). It is showing that there is no meaning of worshiping other dieties, without worshiping Shiva, as it is same as we are putting the water on the leaf of a tree. It is useless for the tree and also for the leaf. Shakti means Power. Shiva is the only one who is having the Power as the word Shakti is used along with the name of Shiva only as ShivaSakti. GOD Shiva is the only one who is having the power of creation of Atmas. ShivaShakti created Ganesha, Karthikeya, Dharma Sasta, Bhadra Kali, Veera Bhadra, Kaala Bhairava, Khanda Karna and the list goes on. And all of them are worshiped as dieties. GOD Shiva is also known as Mrityunjaya, means GOD Shiva is the only one who can protect us from death. The Markandeya Puran is related to this. There is no one who can stand against the power of GOD Shiva, as Shiva is the Supreme Soul. For resisting him, GOD Shiva even killed Lord Ganesha, Kama Deva, Yama Dharma and had given life back to them. Param means Supreme. This word is only used with names of Shiva. As Parameshwara (Supreme GOD), Parama Shiva etc. There is no meaning of comparing Shiva with anything else... as Sarvam Shivamayam, ShivaSaktimayam. I have just given some examples, as I have seen some useless argumnets are going on here. Atma is part of ParamAtma, as Sri Sankara Gurudeva says...Shivoham, Shivoham, ShivaSwaroopam. Tatwamasi...Aham Brahmasmi... Sri Shankara Gurucharanam Sharanam... Sudheesh P Peethambaran Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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