How Shrardha helps departed SOULS?

[Guest guest]

Dear Advaitins!

Hari OM!

It is said that Sukshma areera leaves stula sareera at death. Then

how the rice etc offered at Shrardha cremony help the Jeeva in

Sukshma sareera with out a gross body? Is there any Sathra Pramana

regarding the need for offering Shraradha? Or is it only just

Practice that crept in our Soiciety & got rooted?

Shall be grateful if some one can throw some light on this.

Pranams

Kannan

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "pnkannan_cm <pnkannan_cm>"

<pnkannan_cm> wrote:

> Dear Advaitins!

> Hari OM!

> It is said that Sukshma areera leaves stula sareera at death. Then

> how the rice etc offered at Shrardha cremony help the Jeeva in

> Sukshma sareera with out a gross body? Is there any Sathra Pramana

> regarding the need for offering Shraradha? Or is it only just

> Practice that crept in our Soiciety & got rooted?

> Shall be grateful if some one can throw some light on this.

> Pranams

> Kannan

 

Namaste,

 

It helps the dead person if the thinks it helps. If you believe in

Devas then for you there are Devas........ONS....Tony.

 

P.S. Go see 'The Others', or rent the video!!!!!!Or even watch Van

Pragh on Fox, for a glimpse into the lower Astral etc/Alternatively

would suggest reading the Tibetan Book of Dead or other Bardo

literature.

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

Shri pnkannan writes:

"It is said that Sukshma sareera leaves sthula sareera at death.

Then how the rice etc offered at Shrardha cremony help the Jeeva

in Sukshma sareera with out a gross body? Is there any Sathra

Pramana regarding the need for offering Shraradha? ..."

 

 

The question 'How shrAddha helps?' has been answered in various

smR^itis. The sthUla sharIra is dropped at death of course. But

when the subtle body goes to heaven or hell or to next birth, it

acquires a new body. Without a physical body, the subtle body

has no experience, though it has the mind attached to it. The

mind which has a past, experiences whatever it experiences only

through a physical body. The smR^itis say that when you offer

piNDa (food) through shrAddha, by the mantra power, it goes as

whatever food is suitable to that physical body which is now

encasing the subtle body that is in question now. So finally

everything centres on the power of the mantra. Without the

concept of mantra power, Hinduism would be a blank. The only way

you can believe in shrAddha, is by a belief in mantra power.

 

There could be subsidiary questions like: What happens if the

subtle body has not yet taken a new birth? I don't know the

answer.

Another question: What happens if the soul had attained moksha?

 

In such a state of course there is no need for it to 'receive'

any food.

Then why do you have to do shrAddha to such souls?

How do you know the particular soul has attained moksha? is the

obvious answer.

 

You can go on intellectually pursuing all this. But it is all

only dukR^ung-karaNa referred to by Sankara in his first sloka

of bhaja govindam. The bottom line is: Either believe in mantra

power or don't.

 

Final postscript: It is shrAddha and not shrArdha. The second

'r' is a Tamilian habituary violation.

 

praNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.

http://mailplus.

[Guest guest]

OM

Please read:

Hindu Fasts & Festivals

By Sri Swami Sivananda

http://www.thedivinelifesociety.org/download/hindufest.htm#_VPID_30

 

Mahalaya Amavasya

The dark fortnight of Aswayuja (September-October) is known as the

Mahalaya Paksha or the fortnight specially sacred for offering

oblations to the departed ancestors. The last day of this period, the

new moon day, is considered as the most important day in the year for

performing obsequies and rites.

 

The renowned hero of the Mahabharata, Karna, when he left the mortal

coil, ascended to the higher worlds and the great charity he had done

here was returned to him hundredfold. But, it was all gold and

silver; there was no food, as he had not done any food-charity! He

prayed to the god of death. So, he was sent back to earth for

fourteen days, to make up for this deficiency.

 

For fourteen days, he fed Brahmins and the poor, and offered

oblations of water. On his return to the higher regions, he had food

in plenty. It is these fourteen days that are commemorated in the

Mahalaya Paksha. Due to the grace of the god of death, it has been

ordained that offerings made during this period benefit all the

departed souls, whether they are connected to you or not.

 

Charity in the form of food is important during this observance. Life

depends upon food. You cannot preach religion to empty stomachs. This

human body is the most important vehicle for realising God. How

precious must food be which keeps the body fit for Yoga! The gift of

food is the greatest gift. Therefore, give food in plenty, not only

during the Mahalaya fortnight but all through the year.

 

Om Tat Sat Brahmaparnamastu

 

 

Also:

PRAYER FOR DEPARTED SOULS

ITS PURPOSE AND PRE-REQUISITES

(Forest University Lecture given on All-Soul's Day, 1952)

Discourses

by

Swami Krishnananda

The Divine Life Society

Sivananda Ashram, Rishikesh, India

http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_32.html

 

PRAYER FOR DEPARTED SOULS

ITS PURPOSE AND PRE-REQUISITES

(Forest University Lecture given on All-Soul's Day, 1952)

Our salutations, adorations and prostrations to all those who

have gone ahead of us, who have gained more experience and who are

before us as ideal beacon lights in life. Today we offer our

adorations to all those who are not visible to our physical eyes, but

who lived on this earth-plane and who now experience a different

state of consciousness. We offer our gratitude to all those who have

gone before us and shown us the path.

 

By the remembrance of all souls, we mean the remembrance of

everything that is created. It does not necessarily mean those who

exist in a Preta condition, in the astral body; but those who have

abandoned their physical body and who have taken another physical

body also receive our prayers. Those who exist in Swarga Loka receive

our prayers, those who live in Gandharva Loka, and all those who

experience pain and suffering also receive our prayers. Our prayers

reach up to Brahma Loka and the Surya Mandala, because our prayers

are the expressions of our soul-consciousness.

 

You know there are various kinds of human beings. Similarly,

there are various kinds of departed souls. There are some people who

feel that it is very difficult to understand how the efforts of a

person in this world can influence the conditions and experiences of

a person in the other world. This doubt arises on account of lack of

understanding and lack of knowledge. We must know that the Universe

is an organic whole. It is not a dead matter. It is vibrating with

energy, life and consciousness. The Universe is one whole. If

anything happens to any part of my body, the whole body feels it. So

is the case with everything in this universe. Every atom of this

universe is connected with every other atom in this universe. Planes

are only relative; they are not absolute values. They are valid only

to individuals. Hence an act or a thought or a feeling which is

originated at any particular part of the universe shall influence

others also with that degree of intensity with which it is generated.

If the prayer is intense, it will be felt there in a corresponding

degree of intensity.

 

The act of Sraddha is an example. When we offer foodstuffs or

other articles which are all used in the name of the departed soul,

we mean they should be received by the person "there". In this world

of materialism, people who have no belief in the higher values doubt

the validity of this act. How does a physical act in this world

influence a subtle body that is in another world?

 

This may be explained by a modern analogy. Take, for example,

telegraphic conveyance of money. If a person wants to send a money

order, he just pays the required amount to the Post Office in his own

town and wishes that this amount should be received by the person

concerned at some other distant place. Now, that same money is not

received by the other person. It is here itself. The Post Office in

the other town receives the intelligence of the sender's wish. Only

the feeling, the understanding, is conveyed, and that works wonders.

The intelligence causes a corresponding action to take place there.

The person receives the amount at that distant place.

 

The same is the case with Sraddha. The Pinda that is left here

is left here. It is the symbol of an internal feeling, of a bhava.

Sraddha is something more than mechanical action. It is an act of

prayer with bhava and feeling. We must not underrate our thoughts and

feelings. Our thoughts are omnipotent. Every thought will fructify,

today or tomorrow, in this form or another form. When we do charity

in the name of a departed soul, this intelligence is conveyed to him

through the planes of consciousness. The pitris receive there what we

give here, because we transmit an intelligence to those who are in

charge of the person concerned that such and such a thing should be

given to the person there. That great selfless act of sacrifice in

the name of the departed soul gives wonderful benefit to him. This is

possible on account of the unity of the universe, because of the

omnipotence of God, because He is the Sovereign of the universe,

because He is the dispenser of justice with His Supreme Wisdom.

 

Just as there are various kinds of men, there are various

kinds of departed souls; so various prayers of different intensities

are offered. Take the human beings alone. All human beings are not in

the same stage of evolution. We have "animal men" - those who have

human bodies but animal qualities. Then we have men superior to them,

ordinary men, who are not bad, but are not good either. That is the

second stage. Thirdly, we have good men; they are virtuous. Superior

to them we have saintly men; they are not merely good, they have

started to unfold the divine consciousness. Lastly we have divine men

or Godmen. These various kinds of people reach different conditions

and have different experiences when they leave the physical body. Of

course, those who are Self-realised are not in need of our prayers.

They themselves are very powerful. Their Self-experience and

Knowledge are so powerful, so great and so valuable, that they will

help themselves. But all are not saints, all are not God-men. Those

who have not reached this stage require the help of others.

 

 

 

Soul's Journey after Death

Our Puranas and Itihasas say that the soul after death passes

through different experiences. It is said that an ordinary person in

whom there is a mixture of good and evil, when he dies, is taken to

Yama-Loka in the beginning. If his evil traits preponderate, he will

be taken to Yama-Loka. Scriptures further say that an ordinary person

does not remember his past experiences. He is in a state of swoon the

moment he casts off the physical body. Our prayers give him

consciousness. They give him fresh energy and solace. Because he is

not a virtuous man, he is suffering; our acts of sacrifice shall be

beneficial to him. Even when the person goes to Yama-Loka he will be

helped there by our acts of sacrifice. But a person who has read the

Vedas, who has led a virtuous life, remembers his past experiences;

others do not. In the latter case, the Puranas say that a Danda

called the Yama-Danda is kept on the head of such a person so that he

may remember his past life. It is described as a burning iron rod. At

once, he remembers all his past life on earth. Then the Dispenser of

Justice puts the question: "You have done so many evil deeds. What do

you intend to do about them?" Then, it is said, the soul gives the

reply: "I have got my relatives. They are capable of doing what is

good for me. They will perform all the expiations on my behalf, and

then I shall free myself from all these experiences of pain." Then it

is said that the soul is sent back to the earth. It takes about 12

days. That is why we perform the ceremony on the eleventh and twelfth

days here. The soul is brought back to the earth and it is made to

watch what is happening there. Before that time the body should be

buried or burnt. Because attachment to the body is so much that the

very perception of the corpse will create a desire in the soul to

enter it once again; but those who are in charge of it will not allow

this - and this would be a condition of great suffering. And, so, on

the 11th and 12th days we should offer prayers, perform Havanas, do

charity etc.

 

Generally, we perform a Yagna for the peace of the soul and

for the satisfaction of all those who are in charge of the soul.

Otherwise, it will not be able to experience the things that are sent

from here. First of all, a certain Bali (an offering of boiled rice,

etc.) is offered, which is for the satisfaction of Yama. It is said

that this act will satisfy Yama and He will free it from bondage. It

is necessary that the soul should be purged of the evil deeds it has

done. So Bhagavata-Saptaha, and such sacrifices and Yagnas are

performed. Then we are told that the soul is released from Yama-Loka

and it goes to Rudra-Loka and there it becomes one of the Ganas of

Rudra-Loka. In order that it may be released from that place, we have

to perform the Rudra Yagna. Then Rudra releases it from the state of

Gana and it shines in a lustrous body and goes to Brahma-Loka. It is

initiated into the divine mysteries by Brahma Himself and it attains

Moksha.

 

So gradually the soul which is not very virtuous, which has

not done any good deeds on earth is also enabled to reach the higher

planes of consciousness through our acts of prayers and sacrifice.

 

 

 

Weep Not for the Dead

In this connection we must remember that the pains which are

experienced by the departed souls are intensified by the sufferings

and the grief expressed by those who are on earth. The scriptures

emphatically say that, after the death of a person, no teardrop of

grief should fall to the ground from anybody's eyes. It does not in

any way help the departed soul. On the other hand, even a soul which

is about to enter heaven will be brought back if his people are

crying here. No one should, therefore, weep or cry; but everyone must

pray for the peace of the departed soul. The person who has left the

body can be given whatever he needs from here. Study of scriptures is

a great help, offering of prayers, performing havanas and doing

charitable deeds, and even contemplation on God for his sake - all

these are of great use. When a person meditates on God, for the sake

of the peace of the departed soul, it is said that it will be enabled

even to attain Moksha. The knowledge of the Guru is powerful enough

to enter the heart of the disciple to dispel his ignorance; even so

is the relation between the person existing here and the departed

soul. For the sake of the departed soul we can meditate. It is

possible to send our powerful currents of concentration and

meditation to enable it to reach higher states of consciousness. For

this sake, we must bear in mind that we are part and parcel of the

universe, even as the departed souls are; and there is not much

difference between the person who exists in a physical body and one

who exists in an astral or some other kind of body.

 

 

 

Glory of Prayer for All Souls

 

Our prayers are capable of producing an effect immediately.

Our prayers are expressions of soul-consciousness. The prayers should

be absolutely selfless. It is necessary that the idea of personal

relationship should be removed when such prayers are offered. When

such relationship is kept up, the prayer becomes slightly tinged with

selfishness and loses its value. We must offer prayers for all souls

with an impartial attitude. Only then will it be extremely powerful

and bring the desired result. We offer prayers not because we want

anything in return for the prayers, but because we wish to radiate

peace in the universe. When collective Sadhana is done, when all

people sit together and pray for the sake of the departed souls, it

brings peace to everyone in this world, even the person who has

departed and taken birth again - in fact, all living people will be

benefited. Everyone's life will become peaceful and everyone will

lead a happy life, on account of our charitable acts. It is really

praying for the peace of the whole universe. So, this offering of

prayers on this sacred All-Souls' Day is our attempt to bring peace

to the universe and to realise in our practical life the oneness that

is at the background of all phenomena. We are all one, whether we are

in the physical body or astral body; each should be grateful to the

other; each should pray for the other; each should wish the good and

happiness of the other, so that the whole universe will be a heaven

of peace, a resting place of divine consciousness.

 

Also:

What Becomes Of The Soul After Death

By Sri Swami Sivananda

http://www.thedivinelifesociety.org/download/afterdeath.htm

 

Om

 

advaitin, "pnkannan_cm <pnkannan_cm>"

<pnkannan_cm> wrote:

> Dear Advaitins!

> Hari OM!

> It is said that Sukshma areera leaves stula sareera at death. Then

> how the rice etc offered at Shrardha cremony help the Jeeva in

> Sukshma sareera with out a gross body? Is there any Sathra Pramana

> regarding the need for offering Shraradha? Or is it only just

> Practice that crept in our Soiciety & got rooted?

> Shall be grateful if some one can throw some light on this.

> Pranams

> Kannan

[Guest guest]

OM

This is incorrect. The law exists. If i believe you do not exist does

that mean you do not exist?

Spirits, etc and beings in other dimensions are as much part of God

as we are.

Our concept of reality cannot be the only true one.

The belief, thoughts etc have to be changed appropriately. That is

Yoga. Let us not become "lip vedantins".

OM

 

advaitin, "Tony O'Clery <aoclery>"

<aoclery> wrote:

> advaitin, "pnkannan_cm <pnkannan_cm>"

> <pnkannan_cm> wrote:

> > Dear Advaitins!

> > Hari OM!

> > It is said that Sukshma areera leaves stula sareera at death.

Then

> > how the rice etc offered at Shrardha cremony help the Jeeva in

> > Sukshma sareera with out a gross body? Is there any Sathra

Pramana

> > regarding the need for offering Shraradha? Or is it only just

> > Practice that crept in our Soiciety & got rooted?

> > Shall be grateful if some one can throw some light on this.

> > Pranams

> > Kannan

>

> Namaste,

>

> It helps the dead person if the thinks it helps. If you believe in

> Devas then for you there are Devas........ONS....Tony.

>

> P.S. Go see 'The Others', or rent the video!!!!!!Or even watch Van

> Pragh on Fox, for a glimpse into the lower Astral etc/Alternatively

> would suggest reading the Tibetan Book of Dead or other Bardo

> literature.

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

I find that Monier Williams Sanskrit Digital Dictionary online gives

the following meaning for shrAddha :

 

"A ceremony in honour and for the benefit of dead relatives observed

with great strictness at various fixed periods and on occasions of

rejoicing as well as mourning by the surviving relatives (these

ceremonies are performed by the daily offering of water and on stated

occasions by the offering of Pin2d2as or balls of rice and meal [see %

{piNDa}] to three paternal and three maternal forefathers i.e. to

father , grandfather , and great grandfather ; it should be borne in

mind that a S3ra1ddha is not a funeral ceremouy [%{antye7STi}] but a

supplement to such a ceremony ; it is an act of reverential homage to

a deceased person performed by relatives , and is moreover supposed

to supply the dead with strengthening nutriment after the performance

of the previous funeral ceremonies has endowed them with ethereal

bodies ; indeed until those %{antye7STi} , or `" funeral rites "'

have been performed , and until the succeeding first S3ra1ddha has

been celebrated the deceased relative is a %{pre7ta} or restless ,

wandering ghost , and has no real body [only a %{liGga-zarIra}

q.v.] ; it is not until the first S3ra1ddha has taken place that he

attains a position among the Pitr2is or Divine Fathers in their

blissful abode called Pitr2i-loka , and the S3rñS3ra1ddha is most

desirable and efficacious when performed by a son ; for a full

description of the S3ra1ddha ceremonies see RTL. 276 , 304 &c.)

Gr2S3rS. Mn. MBh. &c."

 

Perhaps, Sunderji, as he was involved with the preparation of Monier

Williams, or others can advise how to access the references quoted at

the end.

 

Prof. Krishnamurthy-Ji has already shed a lot of light on the

prAmanic aspects of performing shrAddha . I am not an adept in

sAstrAs and cannot, therefore, delve any deeper. However, as a

personal opinion, I would like to state the following:

 

We perform pUjAs to our beloved deities at home and at temples. We

don't then ask if they partook of the offerings. Neither do we see

any sign of their having accepted the offerings. Yet, we keep

performing pUjAs because it is a part and parcel of our ethos and

culture and an expression of our attitude of devotion and extend them

to even important occasions such as laying the foundation of a

building or commencing a new venture or children's education.

 

Similarly, we celebrate Deepawali, Durga PUja etc. because that also

is a part of our culture and an expression of our attitude of

devotion.

 

As Shri Michael Reidy pointed out about reincarnation, the belief in

an afterlife and the relevance of shrAddha in connection with that

belief is a part of our main philosophical body and, therefore,

should not be detached with the blade of rationalism. Let us,

therefore, keep doing the rites as they enable us, occasionally at

least, to fondly remember the ones we have gotten rid of from our way.

 

If anything, shrAddha is a tacit reminder of the philosophical

insight that we don't just perish as Tennyson lamented "If death is

the end of life, why should life all labour be?" It is a reminder of

our immortality however absurd it may sound from the point of view of

the rationalist. At the end of the day, we all would still hope our

progeny keeps the practice alive for our and their own sakes. We

would be a useless flotsam without a cultural anchor that tells us of

our imperishable nature. That is perhaps why, as Tony-Ji pointed

out, other cultures too do have similar beliefs and practices.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

advaitin, "kvashisht <kvashisht>"

<kvashisht> wrote:

>It is the symbol of an internal feeling, of a bhava.

> Sraddha is something more than mechanical action. It is an act of

> prayer with bhava and feeling.

 

This is wonderful indeed.

Here is an account of our performing of shrAddha in Badrinath, with

thanks to Shree SRD of Badrinath for his unselfish effort to bring

in the special bhava.

 

We went to Badrinath last June to offer shrAddha.

Family sources back home suggested to get in touch with a Karnataka

society. In the early cold hours on the Himalayas before sunrise,

myself and my father went in search of a good priest. Not knowing

the paths very well, we went on foot up and down the hills in search

of the gentleman suggested by the society, Shree S.R.Deshpande, but

could not physically meet him, though we were given pointers as to

where to find him. We then set out to the Brahmakapalam, where we

successfully escaped from many priests and found one who convinced

us that he is working on behalf of Shree SRD and also indicated that

he would only do the preliminary things and the main function would

be done by Shree SRD. We almost agreed and my father took a seat

nearby after bathing in hot water springs from the Ganges. I went

looking around things beside the Ganges in the meantime. Nearby in a

3-walled room, I spotted one gentleman conducting shrAddha with

great devotion, unlike all others we saw so far. Not wanting to

intrude, I went nearby and upon inquiry with others, found that he

is Shree SRD.

 

Without a word, I ran all the way back up and down the hills and

steps, just in case my father may already finish samkalpam

(agreement). Luckily, everything was fine and we both indicated to

the priest the same and went ahead to Shree SRD. The priest followed

us, though eventually we parted from him. Shree SRD made us wait for

a few hours in the cold and without food.

The wait and effort was very well worth more than we expected,

opening up a new dimension towards understanding of offering of

shrAddha.Beside Ganges and next to Brahmakapalam, Shree SRD directed

the function for about forty people like us at one time. He was

standing and using a whistle sometimes to get attention back.

I was not allowed inside and was watching the proceedings from

outside with reverance. Many of those people for whom we offered

shrAddha, I never saw; though all of them had a role in our lives.

As part of the proceedings, models of all of them were created with

rice and other things and he instructed all the participants to

nurture the models with Love and Devotion, which also he conducted

to the minute detail as to how to do it, such as feeding, giving

bath, etc, etc. While doing the proceedings, our feeling of Devotion

is important, I figured, which he so well administered. I watched

them all from outside with respect and devotion and it seems as

though the models come to life and we feel satisfied that they

received our prayers with thanks to Shree SRD.

 

On the way down from the Himalayas, one cannot resist thinking about

 

how Shri Shankara and others went on foot on all these mountains. We

figured, probably they went alongside the Ganges banks where

possible and on mountain-paths where possible, and perhaps by

swimming upstream in the Ganges sometimes. In any case, the view of

the Ganges flowing out of the Himalayan mountains, the origin of

Saraswati, VedaVyasa's cave were all spectacular sights.

 

Regards,

Raghava

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair

<madathilnair>" <madathilnair> wrote:

for a full

> description of the S3ra1ddha ceremonies see RTL. 276 , 304 &c.)

> Gr2S3rS. Mn. MBh. &c."

>

> Perhaps, Sunderji, as he was involved with the preparation of

Monier

> Williams,

 

Namaste,

 

This statement is wholly erroneous! I was never

associated with this project, and I am not even minimally qualified

for it!

 

1.RTL = Religious Thought and Life in India-by Sir M. Monier-Williams

2.Gr2S3rS = Grihya and Srauta Sutras

3.Mn. = Manu's Lawbook

4.MBh. = Mahabharata

 

[#1 & 2 are not on-line as far as I know.

 

1 Religious Thought and Life in India: Vedism, Brahmanism and Hinduism

by Monier-Williams, Monier

 

2 Sacred Books of the East Vols. 29 & 30 -The Grihya-Sutras

by F Max Muller

 

2 Srauta sutras : http://ignca.nic.in/km_27_29.htm]

==============================================================

 

#3 is at URL: http://sanskrit.gde.to/offload_list.html [esp.

Sections III & IV]

 

#4 is at URL:

http://bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk/john/mahabharata/pune_text/welcome.cg

i

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sunderji.

 

Sorry for the mix up. However, I am sure I read an acknowledgement

to you at a Sanskrit dictionary site. I can't figure out which. I

mistook it for Monier Williams. I should have checked before

writing. Lastly, having known you better lately and considering the

great service and advice you are rendering to this Group by promptly

suggesting web links, I have no doubt in my mind about your minimal

qualifications.

 

Thanks for pointing out my mistake and pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

______________________________

 

 

advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi <sunderh>"

<sunderh> wrote:

 

> This statement is wholly erroneous! I was never

> associated with this project, and I am not even minimally qualified

> for it!