death

[Guest guest]

Dear madhawaji,

If my information is correct,When a sanyasin is given sanyasa, a shraddha is

performed.He is given a new name,. After this he keeps no ties with his

family.

In short,he is considers to have given up his identity.

Nirmala

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

namaste.

 

There was mention in the recent posts about death. The purpose

of this post is to put one perspective of death with the hope

that other learned members add their understandings.

 

It is said that death and fear of death are the greatest

sufferings in life. There is an inherent difficulty in this

statement. The answer to the question "what is death?" depends

on one's understanding of what one is. And whether death is the

calamitous event depends on what one's understanding is.

 

As death is normally understood: The normal understanding

of death is when the jIvA's life-breath goes away. The pain

of death cannot be described and can only be surmized as the

one who suffers it (the pain of death) in life is not in a

position to describe it. Others cannot imagine that pain or

suffering until they come face to face with death. As normally

understood, death is the final and decisive end or negation

of life. There may be many partial negations in one's life,

for e.g. the suffering of pain or fear experienced at various

stages in life. But these partial negations of sufferings and

fears disappear in time. But one cannot recover from this final

negation of death. But this understanding of death is only a

partial understanding of death.

 

The sages of India thought of what is death, and came up with

a remarkable understanding of it. The upanishadic sages found

a spiritual solution to the so-called *problem* of death and

found a way of recognizing our immortality. Our mythologies

provided several means by which the contemplative statements

of the upanishadic sages get firmly embedded in the human

thought process. According to the upanishadic sages, death

is not a frightening experience at all. If we have a correct

understanding of death, we overcome death and the fear of death.

If we have the correctunderstanding, the other partial negations

of sufferings and fears will automatically disappear.

 

Immortality is the subject of the upanishads and immortality

defies the concept of death. Immortality is the result when

the Knowledge and the knower unite and become one.

 

Leading to immortality, there are lower levels of knowledge

which also see death as any other event and not a calamitous

one. Transmigration, birth in other worlds and passage to

brahmaloka are concepts which minimize the calamitous thinking

about death. Transmigration is a series of lives of the same

soul . The gross body perishes by death but the subtle body

accepts new gross bodies on re-birth. BhagavadgItA 2.22 says

that just like a garment is taken out and a new garment is

put on, so also, the subtle body accepts new physical bodies

depending on the prArabdha karma. There are many worlds besides

this and rebirth can be possible in any of them. PurANA-s also

say that good deeds in this life lead to brahmaloka. The entities

that reach brahmaloka do not have re-birth. It is a realm of

prolonged life of youthful and unaging existence. After their

sojourn in brahmaloka, and at the time of pralaya, they either

attain brahman or form the seed material for creation after

pralaya. Thus, these thoughts, although of lower knowledge,

are a partial conquest of death. It is to be understood that

these modes of conquest of death (transmigration, birth in

other worlds, and brahmaloka) are only provisional and are

still in the realm of ignorance.

 

The complete and true victory over death is with Knowledge.

When dehAtmabuddhi disappears, immortality (of the jIvA; -

jIvo brahmaiva nah paraH) dawns.

 

Finally, the question "what is death?" is tackled. This is

in sanatsuJAtIyam of mahAbhArata. SanatkumAra, one of the great

sages of the upanishads, teaches king DritarAShTra what is

death and how it can be overcome. SanatsujAtIya is an important

part of mahAbhArata. BhagavatpAda shri shankara wrote bhAShyA-s

on three parts of mahAbhArata (bhagavadgItA, viShnusahasranAmA,

and the sanatsujAtIyam). I hope to discuss the comparative

contexts and importances of these three parts of mahAbhArata

and the bhAShyA-s by shri shankara in a future post. The point

of interest for this post is the defintion of death given by

sanatkumAra.

 

DhritarAShTra asks sanatkumAra "I have heard that you have a

different meaning for death and that you have argued that there

is no death. Yet, we have seen in the upanishads that Indra, the

king of Gods, and Virocana, the king of asurA-s, did brahmacarya

to overcome death. Please tell me, is there death or is there

no death?". SanatkumAra replies to this question as follows:

 

ubhe satye kshatriyAdya pravr^itte

moho mr^ityuH saMmato yaH kavInAm.h

pramAdaM vai mr^ityu mahaM bravImi

sadA'pramAda manr^itatvaM bravImi

 

O king, both arguments (that there is death, there is no death)

are justifiable. Some learned people say that moham (delusion)

is mr^ityu (death). But I would say pramAdam (falling from the

Knowledge of identity of brahman and Atman) is mr^ityu (death)

and apramAdam (being in the realized state of identity of brahman

and Atman) as immortality.

 

Moham (delusion) is mithyA-jnAnam. This is the delusion that

anAtma is Atma. This is the understanding of people with dehAtmabuddhi.

Some learned people say this is mr^ityu. But sanatkuMara says

pramAdaM vai mr^ityu mahaM bravImi. pramAdam is falling out from

the natural brahmAtmabhAvam. This pramAdam is responsible also

for the delusion and the mithyAjnanam of dehAtmabhAvam.

 

People with dehAtmabhAva (people in the delusion that body is

the Atma) consider death to be the calamitous event. People with

dehAtmabhAva (those who recognize the identity of brahman and Atman)

overcome death.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

[Guest guest]

I would prefer reading Katha Upanishad. We can learn and ponder a

lot upon death from the verses of Katha Upanishad. I would also like

to remind you that there is no Srahdha ceremony performed to

Sanyasis! There is only Aradhana performed to them. The mortal coil

of Sanyasis are either given Bhusamadhi (Burial) or Jalasamadhi (left

in the flowing water).

 

Katha Upanishad:

 

20

Nachiketa said: There is this doubt about a man when he is dead: Some

say that he exists; others, that he does not. This I should like to

know, taught by you. This is the third of my boons.

 

Chapter II

 

12

 

The wise man who, by means of concentration on the Self, realises

that ancient, effulgent One, who is hard to be seen, unmanifest,

hidden and who dwells in the buddhi and rests in the body—he, indeed,

leaves joy and sorrow far behind.

 

13

 

The mortal who has heard this and comprehended it well, who has

separated that Atman, the very soul of dharma, from all physical

objects and has realised the subtle essence, rejoices because he has

obtained that which is the cause of rejoicing. The Abode of Brahman,

I believe, is open for Nachiketa.

 

18

 

The knowing Self is not born; It does not die. It has not sprung from

anything; nothing has sprung from It. Birthless, eternal, everlasting

and ancient, It is not killed when the body is killed.

 

21

 

Though sitting still, It travels far; though lying down, It goes

everywhere. Who but myself can know that luminous Atman who rejoices

and rejoices not?

 

22

 

The wise man, having realised Atman as dwelling within impermanent

bodies but Itself bodiless, vast and all—pervading, does not grieve.

 

Chapter III

 

13

 

The wise man should merge his speech in his mind and his mind in his

intellect. He should merge his intellect in the Cosmic Mind and the

Cosmic Mind in the Tranquil Self.

 

14

 

Arise! Awake! Approach the great and learn. Like the sharp edge of a

razor is that path, so the wise say—hard to tread and difficult to

cross.

 

 

Part 2, Chapter II

 

4

 

When the soul, identified with the body and dwelling in it, is torn

away from the body, is freed from it, what then remains? This,

verily, is That?

 

5

 

No mortal ever lives by prana, which goes up, nor by apana, which

goes down. Men live by something different, on which these two depend.

 

 

Chapter III

 

 

16

 

There are one hundred and one arteries of the heart, one of which

pierces the crown of the head. Going upward by it, a man at death

attains immortality. But when his prana passes out by other arteries,

going in different directions, then he is reborn in the world.

 

17

 

The Purusha, not larger than a thumb, the inner Self, always dwells

in the hearts of men. Let a man separate Him from his body with

steadiness, as one separates the tender stalk from a blade of grass.

Let him know that Self as the Bright, as the Immortal—yea, as the

Bright, as the Immortal.

 

 

I remain yours,

Madhava

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Understanding of death flowers from advaitic contemplation.

Scriptural statements scattered here and there are of help in the

process because they are the very basis for contemplation.

 

I would like to think on the following lines:

 

The advaitin is the only subject. The rest are objects.

 

An advaitin understands that he is not the body (all sarIrAs

included), the processes undergoing in them, mind, intellect, and ego

(all the so-called sheaths), as all these belong to the objectified

world he experiences.

 

He sees other bodies undergoing changes and dying all around. Thus,

he infers that his body, which also is undergoing similar changes,

will die.

 

Such inferred death is of the body, which belongs to the rest. The

inferred notion of death also belongs to the rest.

 

An advaitin knows that he is aware of his body only occasionally and

that too in parts. When there is a pain on a particular part of the

body, only that part of the body with the pain is visualized. It is

purely pain consciousness. The part of the body visualized is in

fact an input arising from the feeling "I am suffering". The rest of

the body remains forgotten till another part calls attention. Total

awareness of the body in fact never occurs. If at all one believes

it occurs, on close analysis, it will turn out to be only a thought.

Isn't it then foolish for anyone to worry about the death of that

body which he is aware of only occasionally and that too partially.

Aren't we actually dying on those occasions when we forget our bodies

and engage in our daily activities? How many millions of such deaths

we go through in a so-called lifetime! Then, why be afraid of an

inferred event when we will switch off to our body-awareness?

 

Death of the body is not going to be a person's direct experience

like he is not aware of the switching off of consciousness in sleep,

fainting, anaesthesia etc., although the process of dying, i.e.

falling sick, getting hospitalized and being bed-ridden, meeting with

an accident etc. and also the unfounded fear of death are direct

experiences.

 

He is conscious not because he willed it. The inferred final switch

off, if at all such a thing occurs, is also not in his hands. This

is applicable to even suicides resulting from difficult situations in

life because such difficult situations are not in the hands of the

persons committing suicide. They have no explanation why, in the

first place, they (and not others) were subjected to pre-suicidal

torments and made to feel that suicide was the only escape. It is to

be noted here that the person committing suicide is only escaping a

trying situation. By implication, therefore, he is intuitively aware

that he is going to survive the event. Who is escaping when the body

perishes? There should be someone who survives. That is intuitive

knowledge that death is not the end of the story - a full stop.

 

Thus, to an advaitin, life between a reported incident called

birth/the first rememberable experience and the inferred death

occurring some time in future (God knows when if at all it happens!)

is a stretch of glowing consciousness during which he flits between

dreams, waking and patches of total blackouts called deep sleep and

loss of consciousness due to any reason whatsoever such as swooning,

anaesthesia etc.

 

Even such blackouts are experiences for him as he can objectify them

when he returns intact through them and thus are glows of

consciousness like the rest of the experiences.

 

He knows that there is a big hole in the argument that such blackouts

are remembered due to the brain's remaining intact through such

states simply because the brain like the rest of the body also

belongs to the objectified world and, thus, not himself. Besides,

the brain cells keep replacing and the whole mass of cells is not the

same throughout. An ever-changing entity cannot be a substantial

substratum that can sustain the whole stretch of a life's

experiences.

 

Then, what is himself? The obvious answer is that there is SOMETHING

and there is no way of knowing it because if it is known it will

automatically become other than him with another knower knowing it.

 

The advaitin, therefore, concludes and accepts that that SOMETHING

which is witness to the rest is himself and the unchanging substratum

on which the ever changing world of his experiences seem projected.

It should be unchanging because changes can be appreciated only

against something changeless. It should be full and limitless

because only against fullness and limitlessness imperfections and

limitations can be known. It should be timeless and spaceless because

it is only against timelessness and spacelessness time-bound events

and limited objects materialize.

 

When he constantly divests himself of his sense of being a body,

mind, intellect, ego etc., relinquishes his subjective involvement

with the rest of the things in the world, and dispassionately

witnesses the drama, the advaitic vision that he himself is the

essential substratum due to which the rest are dawns on him.

 

He also attempts to visualize the total annihilation of the universe

and logically surmises that such a scenario is impossible because,

according to physical laws, matter and energy are only

interconvertible and that something should ultimately remain. If

something survives, say a barren mass of lifeless matter or trillions

of joules of energy, that something will need an intelligence to

appreciate its existence. What can that intelligence be other than

the substratum that he really is which currently witnesses the

ongoing opera?

 

Thus, the advaitic conclusion is that the AWARER of the operara is

ever present and deathless. He was never born and therefore does not

die like all the other moribund entities around him including his

body.

 

He witnesses the great drama and when he retires he goes into his

bedroom of fullness wherefrom the actors, their histrionics, sets and

lights originated and he is then one with them without any seeming

separation.

 

If he has a beloved deity, he realizes that He/She is none other than

the substratum he is, surrenders the rest at His/Her lotus feet and

remains there ever-content and free because he then knows that his

yogakshema is then His/Her business. Then, when he looks outwards,

he sees Him/Her in everything including the notion of death. When

anyone is afraid of his inferred death, let him visualize the feared

notion as his beloved deity. Is there then anything for him to fear?

 

Thus, projecting and withdrawing an advaitin remains ever full,

unchanging, – an absolute spacelessness, timelessness!

 

Better now we read Sankara's Hymn to Lord Dakshinamurthy and remain

in our eternal retiring room in one piece unperturbed by silly

thoughts of an inferred death of something we really are not.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

In advaitin Shri Gummuluru Murthy wrote:

 

>There was mention in the recent posts about death. The purpose

>of this post is to put one perspective of death with the hope

>that other learned members add their understandings.

 

Hari Om,

 

 

Shri Madhava mentioned once to me that during death ceremonies a special

upanishad is recited called " Garuda upanishad". Does any of the members explain

in brief, what is in this upanishad and why it is recited only on death of a

person.

 

 

Another feature about phenomena of death is although it happens to every human

who was ever alive, we are more concerened only when it relates to us or our

near ones. We are not just identified with this body but this wordly life in

this body. May be a child who has no knowledge of life yet, has no "fear" of

death. How can one feel in anticipation of something of which one has no

knowledge of? Animals do not seem to fear death. So it is just possible that in

humans it may be a cultivated fear rather than natural.

 

 

Pranams.

 

 

P.B.V.Rajan

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[Guest guest]

Shri Madhava mentioned once to me that during death ceremonies a special

upanishad is recited called " Garuda upanishad". Does any of the members

explain in brief, what is in this upanishad and why it is recited only on

death of a person.

 

> Hare Krishna, I think it is *garuda purANa* not garuda upanishad. Apart

from this, during that time, there will be recitation of BG

Chapter-II also which describes the immortality of self/atman. Hari

Hari Hari Bol!!!

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

This is based purely on personal experience.

 

At the age of about fourteen, I was hospitalized with typhoid. The

diagnosis took a long time what with the poor facilities and

miserable condition of the Government hospital where I was kept.

Chloromycetin was just in the market, expensive and hard to get. I,

therefore, remained mostly unconscious and fitful for about a month

running high temperature shitting and throwing up almost

continuously. Each day passed with the fellows at home awaiting the

bad news that the boy had ultimately flown away. But, that didn't

happen thanks not to the doctors or the hospital but to Somebody who

decided that that was not to be the end of the story.

 

Occasionally, while I was faintly conscious, I could hear the bustle

around and the ferocious December/January easterlies of Palghat

rustling against the trees in the hospital compound. But, there was

no fear of death whatsoever. It is right therefore for us to assume

that in the early stages of life, even in the early teens, there is

no fear of death.

 

My fears of death began again with the easterlies of the following

winter. The beauty of the palm trees swaying in the wind used to

fascinate me and, one day, I sat up with the fear that I wouldn't be

there ever to enjoy such scenes. The thought was a real torment and

my grand-uncle who was already in his death bed with an unsuccessful

urinary bladder operation for albuminurea asked me, while I was

attending to him, what was bothering me. When I narrated my fear to

him, he perhaps empathized with me and poured out a dose of vedanta

to convince me that it is the body that dies and that the awarer of

the body will ever remain.

 

The pity is that he died ultimately fearing his last moments. That

was very evident from his behaviour in the last minutes. However, I

believe the consolation his words imparted is perhaps the seed of my

vedantic quest. I now know that the easterlies are me although those

beautiful palm trees aren't there any more having been cut down to

build concrete monstrosities. Similarly, my parents disappeared. My

aunts, thier beautiful cows and calves whom I used to lovingly

fondle, the grand-father tamarind tree in front of my ancestral home

on which a diffident crow used to sit and caw in the monsoon drizzle,

a scene which I then thought would always be there, and all those

beautiful things of my teens also vanished without a trace. But,

when I sit back in true Wordworthian style, they all crowd my mind's

landscape in daffodilian dazzle and make me a mass of sweetness.

Thanks to whom? And, when I drive along the desert terrain of where

I currently am, I see them all over again in the smile of the

ococasional spring flowers and even in the raging dustwind that most

people detest. Thanks to whom?

 

With the knowledge that there is a "whom" to whom I owe everything, I

am sure that the movie has to go on without let up. Who, therefore,

has time to fret about the end, as long as the light that shines the

wind, its rustle, the smile of the desert flower and the daffodils of

the mind continues interminably. There is Dakshinamoorthy telling me

incessantly in my ears: "That light is you!". Where is death then

and who wants liberation? Afterall, liberation from what? From the

daffodils and the smile of the desert flower?

 

I cannot agree that animals have no fear of death. Fear of death is

actually fear for the body - that something will happen to it. It

arises from a body-sense, an identification with the body. I have

seen cows running in fear with their tails up in the middle of

grazing. My investigations have revealed it is always a lurking

snake in the grass that makes them do so. The obvious inference,

therefore, is that they are afraid. What could be the root of the

fear? Most certainly, a body sense. Anyone who has seen animals and

birds being slaughtered will know that they have a fear due to a body

sense although we cannot be certain if they entertain a notion of

death like us miserable human beings and deliberate on it unceasingly.

 

Pranams.

 

Madathil Nair

_

 

advaitin, "pbvrajan" <pbvrajan@i...> wrote:

> >

> Another feature about phenomena of death is although it happens to

every human who was ever alive, we are more concerened only when it

relates to us or our near ones. We are not just identified with this

body but this wordly life in this body. May be a child who has no

knowledge of life yet, has no "fear" of death. How can one feel in

anticipation of something of which one has no knowledge of? Animals

do not seem to fear death. So it is just possible that in humans it

may be a cultivated fear rather than natural.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Death is a thought.

It is a thought for those who think they are living.

Death is an absence of a thought for those who are dead.

Every body comes with a knower of the body upon its birth and this knower

departs the body upon its death and merges into the universal witnss.

(Avyakta or Saakshi).

 

---Babu

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaskar,

I think it was not a Upanishad, it is a purana. It's called 'Garuda Purana' .

This is just my guess, but I think it is something that must have come out much

later , maybe after 10th century.

It is said that it was a question answer session between the Gods, Garuda and

Narayana. It deals mainly with the passage of soul after death and the rites and

rituals that need to be done to keep the souls to move easily through the

various lokas ( worlds ). I do not know why they say that it should be said only

on death though. The Achars ( people performing the shraddha rites ) insist that

it should be started on the first day and finished on the tenth day. Lot of

emphasis seems to be just on making sure people did dhanas ( charity ) and

honoring the caste followings. scary things like torture is mentioned for

people doing bad during their life time.

Om Tat Sat

Guru Venkat

pbvrajan <pbvrajan wrote:

"Shri Madhava mentioned once to me that during death ceremonies a special

upanishad is recited called " Garuda upanishad". Does any of the members explain

in brief, what is in this upanishad and why it is recited only on death of a

person. "

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, Guru Venkat <v_vedanti> wrote:

>

> Namaskar,

> I think it was not a Upanishad, it is a purana. It's

called 'Garuda Purana' .

 

Namaste,

 

A summary is at URL:

 

http://www.urday.com/garudqueries.htm

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

OM

Revered list members, please see:

What Becomes of the Soul After Death

by Sri Swami Sivanandaji Maharaj

All you wanted to know about death and the life beyond.

Formats: .pdf (434 k), .html (423 k)*

http://www.thedivinelifesociety.org/download/afterdeath.htm

OM

 

 

advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi <sunderh>"

<sunderh> wrote:

> advaitin, Guru Venkat <v_vedanti> wrote:

> >

> > Namaskar,

> > I think it was not a Upanishad, it is a purana. It's

> called 'Garuda Purana' .

>

> Namaste,

>

> A summary is at URL:

>

> http://www.urday.com/garudqueries.htm

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder