Detachment

[Guest guest]

Is detachment spontaneus?

True detachment happens.You cannot will it.If i am sick,I have a temporary

detachment from food etc.Or if a close member of a family passes away a

person gets temporary detachment from worldly pleasures.We can attempt to

detach ourselves from worldly pleasures but it may happen at a physical level

by intense sadhana.As swami chinmayananda said In the beginning,you have to

attach to a higher goal to detach from worldly goal,and when

antahkaranasuddhi is achieved,True detachment will happen automatically.I

would like to know opinions of scholerly and respected advaitins.Does anyone

have a comment? Nirmala Limaye

[Guest guest]

Namaste Nirmalaji:

 

Swamiji's statement is easily verifiable from our own experiences.

Many examples can be drawn from our own experience of moving from

childhood to adulthood. When the child plays a game with his/her

father, the child is 'attached to winning' but the father 'attached

to the child' plays the game fully detached from the outcome. If we

keep our goal as being - oneness with the Lord, our attentions get

fully diverted and we become detached to the outcome of our actions.

This is exactly what Lord Krishna tells Arjuna in Chapter 18, verses

65 and 66:

 

Fix your mind on Me, be devoted to Me, offer service to Me, bow

down to Me, and you shall certainly reach Me. I promise you because

you are very dear to Me. (18.65)

 

Setting aside all noble deeds, just surrender completely to the

will of God (with firm faith and loving contemplation). I shall

liberate you from all sins (or bonds of Karma). Do not grieve.

(18.66)

 

The Lord implicitly suggests that we should conduct our actions

spontaneously without fearing/worrying/overexciting about the

outcome. He becomes the Kartha (doer) and we become the instrument.

Those who have faith and conviction on Him will be able to cultivate

this Prasada buddhi and will eventually help them to acheive

antahkaranasuddhi. Swamiji quotes St. Augustine in his commentary to

Bajagovindham (Shankara's famous work) - "Faith is to believe what we

don't see and the reward to see what we believe." (St. Augustine)

 

Let me come back to your question, "Is detachment spontaneous?" This

is conditional, when our actions become spontaneous, we are

necessarily detached! When I am sick, I don't like to eat and this is

not spontaenous but it is due to sickenss.

 

But for a purified stable minded person, action becomes spontaneous

and it comes with the bonus byproduct - detachment!

 

warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, slimaye@a... wrote:

> Is detachment spontaneus?

> True detachment happens.You cannot will it.If i am sick,I have a

temporary

> detachment from food etc.

>........

> As swami chinmayananda said In the beginning,you have to

> attach to a higher goal to detach from worldly goal,

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Ram Chandran <rchandran@c...>"

<rchandran@c...> wrote:

> But for a purified stable minded person, action becomes spontaneous

> and it comes with the bonus byproduct - detachment!

 

Namaste,

 

Some additional thoughts on the subject: If one focusses on a

single 'cog' (here- detachment) in the wheel of 'samsara', without

trying to relate it to as many other relevant 'cogs', the picture can

appear distorted.

 

Gita describes 12 areas that are critical in life in terms of

the sway of the 'gunas' (sattva, rajasa, tama); in 18:30, when the

buddhi (intellect) is sattvic, it reflects on action/non-action,

bondage/liberation. Other areas are: aahaara, karma, karta, yajna,

daana, tapa, dhriti, tyaaga, shraddhaa, jnaana, sukha. These are all

inter-dependent, mutually nurturing or destructive depending on the

dominant 'guna'.

 

Reality being subtle, subtler even than 'space', only

the 'saatvic' antahkarana can grasp it. Unless efforts are put in to

foster these aspects of life, the success for transcending

the 'duality' and its corollary misery, is remote.

 

A fully sattvic antahkarana is like a ripe fruit, and

detaches without pain. An unripe fruit, if detached, painfully bleeds

the sap from the tree.

 

Overemphasing one aspect of the process, in this case

detachment, is not likely to make the progress smooth.

 

My 2c!

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

You said it Sunderji. That is like trying to understand the whole

peeping through the keyhole. Let us therefore be detached to

detachment at least for the time being and look at other issues.

 

Thanks and regards.

 

Madathil Nair

 

____________________

 

 

advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi <sunderh>"

<sunderh> wrote:

 

Overemphasing one aspect of the process, in this case

detachment, is not likely to make the progress smooth.

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

I think I am arriving on the scene rather late.

Earlier there was the thread on 'Is detachment the key to

Liberation?' The right question for a satsangh.

I read all the postings on this thread just now. Let me add my

two cents worth.

 

Yes Madathil Nair is right. Detachment itself is Liberation. It

is jIvan-mukti. But how to get to that stage? The Tamil poet

Tiruvalluvar has a beautiful couplet on this.

parruga parrarrAn parrinai apparraip

parruga parru viDarku.

 

Attach yourself to the attachment of the attachmentless; that

attachment will rid you of all attachments.

 

Says the Bible: (Mathew 6:33). 'But seek ye first the kingdom of

God and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added

to you'.

 

Non-attachment or Detachment is certainly the key to Liberation;

but not in the sense that Detachment is a means and Liberation

is the end. Detachment is the end in itself. Because to get to

that stage of Detachment so as to be a Liberated soul, one has

to go a long way through a personal sAdhana in our daily action.

For this the 18th chapter descriptions of the six

characteristics that prototype a person will help. Slokas 26, 27

and 28 of that chapter talk of three different types of 'doer'.

Of these, the satvic type of doing actions is nothing but

detachment in action and this has to be our goal and model for

our daily actions.

Sloka 26 says: Free from attachment, free from egoism, full of a

fixed impersonal resolution and a calm rectitude of zeal,

neither elated by success nor depressed by failure, -- that

doer who has these qualifications is the satvic doer.

 

This is the definition of detachment. Such a doer is humble and

resolute. He does not seek something for himself. His

contentment always shows up. The moon is not affected by the

vibrations of its reflections in a lake. Clouds bump into other

clouds and creater thunder and lightning; but the space in which

all this happens is always the same unshaken space. The big

waves swallow the small waves, but the ocean remains the same.

Where there is sun, there is no darkness. The sun never meets

darkness. The right doer never indulges in the opposite of

righteousness. Just as the ocean does not distinguish between

its waters, whether they originate from this river or that

river, so also the right doer does not distinguish between his

actions, whether this or that is to his liking. He has the

necessary personal warmth, enthusiasm, insight and originality.

He is like the ideal nurse in a hospital, who brings her entire

personality into the picture and works with dedication

irrespective of the 'success' or 'failure' . He genuinely helps

others and takes his work seriously. For such a person

Detachment comes naturally. It is spontaneous for him. But to

get to that stage one has to start with attachment to the

'Attachmentless Almighty'!

 

praNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.

http://mailplus.

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Thanks Prof. Krishnamurthy-Ji for your very enlightening post.

 

I may be going off in a tangent here from the topic of discussion –

detachment.

 

I had difficulty in locating the quoted verse in Tirukkural as I

didn't know that `'rr" in transliteration should read as the `t' in

beta. So, my wife and I laboured through all verses beginning

with "pa" and ultimately found the one in question at # 35.

 

Well, my Tamil is rudimentary. I learnt the language watching MGR

and Sivaji Ganesan movies. The latter's dialogue delivery used to

enthuse me much. However, my wife, as she was brought up in Madurai,

is well-versed in the language and had won a gold medal for

linguistic excellence. Reportedly, she had even evoked her Class

Teacher to tell the Tamilians in the class : "Anta MalayAlapponnai

pAthu padiyada!" (Follow the example of that Malayali girl). That

is her claim. I don't dare to verify!

 

So, I sat at her feet to learn as I always do (This is a

confession!). The book gives the same interpretation to the verse as

you have given. However, my wife said "parruga" can be interpreted

as "catch" or "hold" in addition to "attach" and that set me

thinking. As an advaitin, I can't therefore resist the following

thought, which I believe is complementary to what you have said and

realizes the happy marriage of Tirukkural to Advaita:

 

parruga parrarrAn parrinai apparraip

parruga parru viDarku.

 

Get hold of the Holdless Hold. Holding that Holdless Hold, be in

total embrace.

 

To the advaitin, the Holdless Hold is verily Consciousness that

doesn't need anything to support it or cling to as It is full

encompassing everything. The deluded "I" is conditioned to think of

and seek holds due to its sense of separation. Constantly

endeavouring to hold on to the Holdless Hold through advaitic

contemplation, i.e. seeking refuge in It, it becomes verily the

Holdless Hold in total embrace as the Whole.

 

In other words, this verse is the Tamil version of "Sarva DharmAn

parityAjya…" at the end of ShrImad Bhagwad Geeta.

 

PranAms and regards.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Namaste Nairji:

 

I fully agree with your final conclusion that the referenced Kural

Verse (350)is quite similar to Gita Verse (Chapter 18 Verse

#66) "Sarva DharmAn parityAjya…" For example Sri Rajaji (Sri

Rajagopalachari) in his book, "Kural" provides the translation as:

"Let attachement to the Lord be your one attachment. That attahcment

will help you to free yourself from other attachments."

 

I am puzzled to see your interpretation based on word by word

dictionary translation of the verse as:

 

"Get hold of the Holdless Hold. Holding that Holdless Hold, be in

total embrace."

 

However, I disagree with your interpretation of 'parruga' as

equivalent to "catch" is inappropriate in the given context. Kural

verses like Gita verses contain a continuous stream of thoughts and

they are spelled out in a theme. The referenced verse belongs to

chapter 35 - "Thuravu - Renunciation." Thiruvalluvar in the

referenced verse makes the bottom-line conclusion after describing

the 'virtue of renunciation' in the previous 9 verses. The

interpretation of "patrruga patrru atrrAn" that agrees with the theme

of Thiruvalluvar is "Attach to the Lord is beyond all attachments."

Though I disagree with your innovative translation, I admire your

enthusiastic and courageous attempt to bring and link advaita within

the context of Kural. Your enthusiasm did pay off because you made a

profound conclusion at the end of this exercise.

 

For those who are not familiar to Kural, let me add few more

sentences. Thirukural is a literary treatise on the art of living.

Just like Gita, Kural describes the pros and cons of human actions

while seeking knowledge, wealth and happiness. Kural accordingly

divided into three parts: Knowledge seeking, Wealth seeking and

Happiness seeking. Thiruvalluvar recognizes that the ultimate goal of

living is 'liberation,' and accordingly provides guidance and hints

for meeting this goal while pursuing the journey of life. The 1330

verses of Kural are organized in 133 chapters divided into the three

parts mentioned above. Kural is available online and just use one of

the search engines ( or Altavista) and search for the

word "Kural" to get several site addresses.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair

<madathilnair>" <madathilnair> wrote:

> Namaste.

> .........

> However, my wife said "parruga" can be interpreted

> as "catch" or "hold" in addition to "attach" and that set me

> thinking. As an advaitin, I can't therefore resist the following

> thought, which I believe is complementary to what you have said and

> realizes the happy marriage of Tirukkural to Advaita:

>

> parruga parrarrAn parrinai apparraip

> parruga parru viDarku.

>

> Get hold of the Holdless Hold. Holding that Holdless Hold, be in

> total embrace.

>

> To the advaitin, the Holdless Hold is verily Consciousness that

> doesn't need anything to support it or cling to as It is full

> encompassing everything. The deluded "I" is conditioned to think

of

> and seek holds due to its sense of separation. Constantly

> endeavouring to hold on to the Holdless Hold through advaitic

> contemplation, i.e. seeking refuge in It, it becomes verily the

> Holdless Hold in total embrace as the Whole.

>

> In other words, this verse is the Tamil version of "Sarva DharmAn

> parityAjya…" at the end of ShrImad Bhagwad Geeta.

>

> PranAms and regards.

>

> Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

Just to add on to what Ramji has mentioned in the last paragraph. The three

portions of the Thirukkural are Aram (Dharma), Porul (Artha) and Inbam

(Kama). The thirukkural being a code of living, embraces only the first

three of the 4 purusharthas. But scholars do hold the view that the moksha

purushartha too is found in the thirukkural in the first portion called

'Aram' and specifically the set of verses called Thuravaraviyal. There is

also myth that Avvaiyaar added a fourth portion to the Thirukkural which

specifically deals with Veedu or Moksha.

 

best regards,

K Kathirasan

>

> Ram Chandran <rchandran [sMTP:rchandran]

> Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:35 AM

> advaitin

> Re: Detachment

>

> Namaste Nairji:

>

> I fully agree with your final conclusion that the referenced Kural

> Verse (350)is quite similar to Gita Verse (Chapter 18 Verse

> #66) "Sarva DharmAn parityAjya..." For example Sri Rajaji (Sri

> Rajagopalachari) in his book, "Kural" provides the translation as:

> "Let attachement to the Lord be your one attachment. That attahcment

> will help you to free yourself from other attachments."

>

> I am puzzled to see your interpretation based on word by word

> dictionary translation of the verse as:

>

> "Get hold of the Holdless Hold. Holding that Holdless Hold, be in

> total embrace."

>

> However, I disagree with your interpretation of 'parruga' as

> equivalent to "catch" is inappropriate in the given context. Kural

> verses like Gita verses contain a continuous stream of thoughts and

> they are spelled out in a theme. The referenced verse belongs to

> chapter 35 - "Thuravu - Renunciation." Thiruvalluvar in the

> referenced verse makes the bottom-line conclusion after describing

> the 'virtue of renunciation' in the previous 9 verses. The

> interpretation of "patrruga patrru atrrAn" that agrees with the theme

> of Thiruvalluvar is "Attach to the Lord is beyond all attachments."

> Though I disagree with your innovative translation, I admire your

> enthusiastic and courageous attempt to bring and link advaita within

> the context of Kural. Your enthusiasm did pay off because you made a

> profound conclusion at the end of this exercise.

>

> For those who are not familiar to Kural, let me add few more

> sentences. Thirukural is a literary treatise on the art of living.

> Just like Gita, Kural describes the pros and cons of human actions

> while seeking knowledge, wealth and happiness. Kural accordingly

> divided into three parts: Knowledge seeking, Wealth seeking and

> Happiness seeking. Thiruvalluvar recognizes that the ultimate goal of

> living is 'liberation,' and accordingly provides guidance and hints

> for meeting this goal while pursuing the journey of life. The 1330

> verses of Kural are organized in 133 chapters divided into the three

> parts mentioned above. Kural is available online and just use one of

> the search engines ( or Altavista) and search for the

> word "Kural" to get several site addresses.

>

> Warmest regards,

>

> Ram Chandran

>

> advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair

> <madathilnair>" <madathilnair> wrote:

> > Namaste.

> > .........

> > However, my wife said "parruga" can be interpreted

> > as "catch" or "hold" in addition to "attach" and that set me

> > thinking. As an advaitin, I can't therefore resist the following

> > thought, which I believe is complementary to what you have said and

> > realizes the happy marriage of Tirukkural to Advaita:

> >

> > parruga parrarrAn parrinai apparraip

> > parruga parru viDarku.

> >

> > Get hold of the Holdless Hold. Holding that Holdless Hold, be in

> > total embrace.

> >

> > To the advaitin, the Holdless Hold is verily Consciousness that

> > doesn't need anything to support it or cling to as It is full

> > encompassing everything. The deluded "I" is conditioned to think

> of

> > and seek holds due to its sense of separation. Constantly

> > endeavouring to hold on to the Holdless Hold through advaitic

> > contemplation, i.e. seeking refuge in It, it becomes verily the

> > Holdless Hold in total embrace as the Whole.

> >

> > In other words, this verse is the Tamil version of "Sarva DharmAn

> > parityAjya..." at the end of ShrImad Bhagwad Geeta.

> >

> > PranAms and regards.

> >

> > Madathil Nair

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

> Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

> http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ramji.

 

I thank you immensely for your enlightening comments.

 

Well, the translation is not from dictionary. As I said, I owe it to

the Madam of the house. I just 'held' to it and created my 'holdless

hold' interpretation. If it has served to reflect at least a ray of

advaita, I am more than happy. By habit, I am one who likes to

discover this great philosophy even in the mew of a street cat. So,

thank you for your good words.

 

Regards and pranAms to all advaitins.

 

Madathil Nair

 

_________________________________

 

 

advaitin, "Ram Chandran <rchandran@c...>"

<rchandran@c...> wrote:

> I am puzzled to see your interpretation based on word by word

> dictionary translation of the verse......

> However, I disagree with your interpretation of 'parruga' as

> equivalent to "catch" is inappropriate in the given context.