Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 namaste, I was reading "Sankara - a BioGraphy" in www.advaita-vedanta.org and I've a question on the following paragraph. < "Sankara's debate with viSvarUpa was unique. The referee at the debate was viSvarUpa's wife, bhAratI, who was herself very well-learned, and regarded as an incarnation of Goddess sarasvatI. At stake was a whole way of life. The agreement was that if viSvarUpa won, Sankara would consent to marriage and the life of a householder, whereas if Sankara won, viSvarUpa would renounce all his wealth and possessions and become a sannyAsI disciple of Sankara. The debate is said to have lasted for whole weeks, till in the end, viSvarUpa had to concede defeat and become a sannyAsI. bhAratI was a fair judge, but before declaring Sankara as the winner, she challenged Sankara with questions about kAmaSAstra, which he knew nothing about. Sankara therefore requested some time, during which, using the subtle yogic process called parakAya-praveSa, he entered the body of a dying king and experienced the art of love with the queens. Returning to viSvarUpa's home, he answered all of bhAratI's questions, after which viSvarUpa was ordained as a sannyAsI by the name of sureSvara. He was to become the most celebrated disciple of Sankara, writing vArttikas to Sankara's bhAshyas on the yajurveda upanishads, in addition to his own independent texts on various subjects."> Can someone explain the significance of Shankara Bagavadpaadal's doing parakAya pravESam to answer the questions of Bharathi ? My question is that why did BhagavadpAdAl have to know kAmaSAstrA (only) by doing parakAya praveSa ? As Bhagavadpaadaal was JivanMuktha, why did He not answer those questions without doing parakAya praveSa ? If there is any hidden significance in it, someone kindly explain it. Prasad ___________ Get 25MB, POP3, Spam Filtering with LYCOS MAIL PLUS for $19.95/year. http://login.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus&ref=lmtplus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 Namaste Shri Prasad Balasubramanyan and all. That sounds like Vikramaditya comics! Well, I have no explanation. Thanks, however, for the beautiful story which at least provides a digression from the profound that we usually talk about here. First I thought, I would do well with that ability to enter other bodies. It didn't take me much time to realize that there aren't any bodies around that are worth the game. I thought of Bush and Saddam! Who would want them? That too now. Bill Gates is ok with all the money. But what about his commercial worries? So, let him keep the body and worries and give me the bucks. If an insignificant being like me can think on these lines, then the brilliant Sankara definitely didn't try that trick. Even without a parakAya pravesa, that too into a King's dying body that in all certainty was highly diabetic and hypertensive, Sankara, who wrote the most beautiful verses on feminine beauty in his lovely Soundarya Lahari, could have passed the test with flying colours. And, the referee knew that well. Afterall, wasn't She already full of glee what with all those one hundred verses on her incomparable beauty!? Well, the message may be that, as a realized sage, as absolute Knowledge, all experiences were already within him. He was, therefore, unbeatable. Hope we won't have to practice kAmashAstra in order to become successful advaitins, although I wouldn't personally mind it! But the big question is if we need it at all with so many trantrics around us promising better experience and salvation too at the end. Both together in one pack. Marvellous! So, back peacefully to Saundarya Lahari and the Mother. May She bless us all with right knowledge. PranAms. Madathil Nair _______________________________ advaitin, "Prasad Balasubramanian" <besprasad@l...> wrote: > namaste, > > I was reading "Sankara - a BioGraphy" in www.advaita-vedanta.org and I've a question on the following paragraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 Namaste Sri Prasad: Very recently, the Acharyas of Sankara Matts (Kanchi, Sringeri, Dwaraga, Puri and Joshimath) have jointly authenticated the birthdate of Adi Sankara (The Hindu - I don't remember the exact date and it came during the last two weeks - somebody can help). This declaration was quite essential because we don't have historical documentation Sankara's life events. Various versions of Sankara's biographies have been presented with narration of miracular incidents associated during his lifetime. The goodnews is that authenticated documents of major works of Sankara have been preserved. Honestly, we should focus on the philosophical works without diverting our attention on the validity of miracular incidents described in the biographies. Rational minds using intellectual framework and logic are likely dispute the authenticity of such miracular incidents. Sankara, the Parabrahman manifested as a 'Jiva' ultimately attain the 'Jivamukta' and this doesn't contradicts the underlined philosophy. The cycle of Brahman - Jiva - Jivamukta (Brahman)is a never ending cycle. At the time of the debate, he was a Jiva and not a Jivamukta! The debate incident is centered on the issue regarding Sankara's mastery over all Shastras (scriptures). Sankara enter into the debate as a Sanyasi and the question was raised by Bharathi (wife of viSvarUpa) regarding his mastery over 'grahastashramam - the dharma of family life' Sankara was indeed a great intellect and a master of all Shastras and consequently was able to answer all the questions. There is no reason for Sankara to perform 'parakAyapraveSa' to establish his mastery. The described incident and other miracular events are probably added to create a 'superhuman' image of Sankara. Our respect and devotion to Sankara are mostly because of his brilliance and dedicated service to the humanity through the propogation of Sanatanadharma and Advaitic philosophy. Warmest regards, Ram Chandran Note: Please understand that such events could have very well could have happened and we have no means to either prove or disprove their authenticity. advaitin, "Prasad Balasubramanian" <besprasad@l...> wrote: > namaste, > > I was reading "Sankara - a BioGraphy" in www.advaita-vedanta.org and I've a question on the following paragraph. > > < "Sankara's debate with viSvarUpa was unique. The referee at the debate was viSvarUpa's wife, bhAratI, who was herself very well- learned, and regarded as an incarnation of Goddess sarasvatI. At stake was a whole way of life. The agreement was that if viSvarUpa won, Sankara would consent to marriage and the life of a householder, whereas if Sankara won, viSvarUpa would renounce all his wealth and possessions and become a sannyAsI disciple of Sankara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 Namaste Prasad-ji and all advaitins, Lets extend the questions everywhere to find a pattern .... why would krishna the almighty fight a war ? why would Rama need to fight to beget sita ... why could not sita herself liberate without leading to a war? why would Jesus has to carry the cross ? why should Vyasa create Krishna, Valmiki create Rama , Moses create Jesus, Prophet create Allah, somebody create Buddha? Bharati create a debate ? and Prasad create a question ? One can spend the whole life time proving mahabharatha happened and vyasa documented it....Ramayana happened and Valmiki documented it ...krishna,Rama, Jesus, Buddha, Sankara, Ramanuja,... everybody walked on this earth...and one is greater or lesser or a subset of the other... ....Be it a story or a happening is it for to prove that they are great? or is it about winning?..or is to deliver a subtle lesson encapsulated in a story to be decoded at different times by different mindsets... Is it going to the moon an achievement? or is the leap, from the lesson learnt, an achievement? The (winning or losing) moment and the winner pass away only the lesson learnt carries on. There are people who dwell on finding if such a moment happened or not and the achiever exists or not....so what if it happened or not the learner evolved... The lesson i learnt from the story or a happening you describe(morale of the story).... => The story displayed that experience (sadhakam) matters... avoidance, instead of transcending, is not the way. Just talking or writing from the scriptures (for the sake of winning) instead of using them in learning to experience that state does not help... => Many needs to go through the entire period of time to get the experience or lesson ( eg., 10 years of experience requires to go through 10 full years ).. the enlightened can get the lesson or the experience within a fraction of a time ( eg., experience of 10 years can acquired in a day )... Pranams Srinivasan V ================================= > > Can someone explain the significance of Shankara Bagavadpaadal's doing parakAya pravESam to answer the questions of Bharathi ? > My question is that why did BhagavadpAdAl have to know kAmaSAstrA (only) by doing parakAya praveSa ? As Bhagavadpaadaal was JivanMuktha, why did He not answer those questions without doing parakAya praveSa ? If there is any hidden significance in it, someone kindly explain it. > > Prasad > > > > ___________ > Get 25MB, POP3, Spam Filtering with LYCOS MAIL PLUS for $19.95/year. > http://login.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus&ref=lmtplus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 advaitin, "Prasad Balasubramanian" <besprasad@l...> wrote: As Bhagavadpaadaal was JivanMuktha, why did He not answer those questions without doing parakAya praveSa ? If there is any hidden significance in it, someone kindly explain it. Namaste, Strictly speaking the book is a 'hagiography' and not a biography, that is the account deals with the lives and legends of saints. An 'aatma-siddha' has all the siddhis and vaibhava that the Paramatman chooses to manifest through him or her, for he/she has no feeling of doing the act with the help of an ego. [Parakayapravesha is a documented siddhi in Patanjali yogashastra.] The legends around any saint are many - in Shankara's case, how he came to compose Bhaja-Govindam, or Manisha-Panchakam, etc. The hidden significance is the strengthening of faith of those who need such legends to bolster it. As the Gita advises: 3:26 na buddhibheda.n janayedaGYaanaa.n karmasaN^ginaam.h . joshhayetsarvakarmaaNi vidvaanyuktaH samaacharan.h .. 3\-26.. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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