Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 In VivekachuuDamani which is being discussed by Nananda separately, Shankara says: durlabbham trayamevaitad daivaanugrahametukam manushyatvam, mumukshutvam mahapurusha samshayaH rear indeed are the three - the bith as a human being, even after bith, desire for liberation and even having that association with a realized soul to help are very rare indeed and only the result the grace of the Lord. na yogena na saankhyena karmaanaa no na vidyayaa brahmaatmaika bodhena mokshaH sidhyati na anyathaa| Neither by yoga(bhakti,karma, j~naana), or by intellctual analysis, neither by action nor education that one can gain liberation. Only by the teaching of oneness of the oneself with the infiniteness that one cna gain moksha. Hari OM! Sadananda --- "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer" <vaidyanathiyer wrote: > > dear friends, > > i have been reading a book by sri sadguru > gnananda of tapovanam at thirukovilur.in that he says > > > ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 sir, if that be the teaching of adi shankara,then how bagavan krishna says in geeta that out of the three bhakti marga is the easiest way to attain liberation.advaitin, kuntimaddi we had many mahans like badrachala ramadas and sadguru thigarajar who attained mukti by just singing the praise of god by songs. cdr bvnsadananda <kuntimaddisada> wrote: > In VivekachuuDamani which is being discussed by Nananda separately, > Shankara says: > durlabbham trayamevaitad daivaanugrahametukam > manushyatvam, mumukshutvam mahapurusha samshayaH > rear indeed are the three - the bith as a human being, even after bith, > desire for liberation and even having that association with a realized > soul to help are very rare indeed and only the result the grace of the > Lord. > na yogena na saankhyena karmaanaa no na vidyayaa > brahmaatmaika bodhena mokshaH sidhyati na anyathaa| > > Neither by yoga(bhakti,karma, j~naana), or by intellctual analysis, > neither by action nor education that one can gain liberation. Only by > the teaching of oneness of the oneself with the infiniteness that one > cna gain moksha. > > Hari OM! > Sadananda > > > --- "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer>" > <vaidyanathiyer> wrote: > > > > dear friends, > > > > i have been reading a book by sri sadguru > > gnananda of tapovanam at thirukovilur.in that he says > > > > > > > > > ===== > What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 The difference is very subtle and is very often mis-understood. There is no greater path to complete liberation or Moksha than to realise that the individual is one with with the universal one. This has always been true and not something Shankara has come up with by himself. This realisation can come by any path (i.e Bhakti, Gyana, or Karma), but the universal truth can only be achieved by that realisation. Gita also emphasises this, but says that the noblest path to true knowledge is the path of Bhakti because by 'Bhakti' one is purified in all paths. Being devoted makes one do the right things, perform right actions, and learn the right things. This is Karma and Gyana Yoga in itself. So, the description of Bhakti is an all-encompassing nature of true understanding and not just a gross quality of attainment. So, in essence, we must go beyond the mind-action-thought to attain the true knowledge and that can be achieved only the Lord's grace. Hope this helps. Aano Bhadraha Krutavo Yantu Vishwataha. advaitin, "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer>" <vaidyanathiyer> wrote: > sir, > > if that be the teaching of adi shankara,then how bagavan krishna > says in geeta that out of the three bhakti marga is the easiest way > to attain liberation.advaitin, kuntimaddi we > had many mahans like badrachala ramadas and sadguru thigarajar who > attained mukti by just singing the praise of god by songs. > > cdr bvnsadananda <kuntimaddisada> wrote: > > In VivekachuuDamani which is being discussed by Nananda separately, > > Shankara says: > > durlabbham trayamevaitad daivaanugrahametukam > > manushyatvam, mumukshutvam mahapurusha samshayaH > > rear indeed are the three - the bith as a human being, even after > bith, > > desire for liberation and even having that association with a > realized > > soul to help are very rare indeed and only the result the grace of > the > > Lord. > > na yogena na saankhyena karmaanaa no na vidyayaa > > brahmaatmaika bodhena mokshaH sidhyati na anyathaa| > > > > Neither by yoga(bhakti,karma, j~naana), or by intellctual analysis, > > neither by action nor education that one can gain liberation. Only > by > > the teaching of oneness of the oneself with the infiniteness that > one > > cna gain moksha. > > > > Hari OM! > > Sadananda > > > > > > --- "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer>" > > <vaidyanathiyer> wrote: > > > > > > dear friends, > > > > > > i have been reading a book by sri sadguru > > > gnananda of tapovanam at thirukovilur.in that he says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have > is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. > > > > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 --- "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer" <vaidyanathiyer wrote: > sir, > > if that be the teaching of adi shankara,then how bagavan krishna > says in geeta that out of the three bhakti marga is the easiest way > to attain liberation.advaitin, kuntimaddi we > had many mahans like badrachala ramadas and sadguru thigarajar who > attained mukti by just singing the praise of god by songs. First of all, if the goal is adviata which is non-duality, then that need to be understood rather than gained. Finite cannot become infinite nor gain infiniteness unless one already is infinite. The bondage is when one takes oneself to be other than what one is, and realization is to recognize the error - Hence there is no real path other than correct understanding of what one is. Moksha is called 'praaptasya praaptam' gaining what one already has and not apraaptasya praaptama ' gaining what one does not have. Hence the statement of Shankara that it is only the teaching of one self as the self in all - the essence of Upanishad teaching of 'tat tvam asi or aham brahmaasmi'. Krishna in Geeta did not teach any different either if one looks at it correctly. 'sarva bhuutastam aatmaanam sarva bhuutaanica aatmani' one who recognizes that all beings in oneself and oneself in all beings - he is the mumukshuH. Now with all due respects to all the saints you have mentioned, I am not going to venture into certification of who is or was realized and who has not. Bhakti involves a bhakta and object of Bhakti- as long as that duality persists, there is obviously no realization of oneness of Bhakata and object of bhakti. I am able to venture into this statement since this is not Bhakti-list but advaitin list. As long as there is a speck of difference or duality , fear will be there and not solvation. 'udaramantaram kurute atha tasya bhayam bhavati' says T.Upa. Arjuna was afraid of Vishvaruupa since he saw only duality not the indentification of oneness even though Krishna declared that he is Arjuna too. Hence Shankara defines in the VivekachuuDamaNi Bhakti as 'moksha kaaraNa saamaagryam bhaktireva gariiyasi| svasvaruupanusandhaanam bhaktiri tyabhi dhiiyate|| 'swaatmaanubhava sandhaanam bhaktirityapare jaguH|| Of all the paths, Bhakti is supreme and - what is that Bhakti? it is contemplation on one's own self. Experience of oneself is Bhakti - says others' In contrast Bhagavaan Ramamnuja also agrees that moksha involves j~naana but that j~aana involves 'bhakti ruupaka j~naana'. Hence each aachaarya interpreted the teaching differently to suite their teaching. As I mentioned this list serve being advaitin - the emphasis is on Shankara's teaching of adviata philosophy. I hope I am clear. Hari OM! Sadananda ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada> wrote: > > --- "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer>" > <vaidyanathiyer> wrote: > > sir, > > > > if that be the teaching of adi shankara,then how bagavan krishna > > says in geeta that out of the three bhakti marga is the easiest way > > to attain liberation.advaitin, kuntimaddi we Namaste All, IMO one must look at the level of awareness the discourse is aimed at. There are several yogas in the Gita for the different type of sadhakas. They all ultimately end in the same place. As Jesus said, 'The way to the Father is through me'. He was speaking as the Sakti. Bhakti is easier for some for it involves love energy or Sakti and is an easier way to become the Sakti. Once one merges with the Sakti energy one is aware of ones identity with Brahman. So a Bhakta directs love toward the beloved until they are one and Advaita Jnana rises completely. As Maharaj says we are all really Praneaswara. There are horses for courses and different strokes for different folks.......ONS....Tony. 'Who am I?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Namaskar, Sri Sadanadaji - That was a very clear and concise reply . In my opinion, from the platform of advaita, the question itself is wrong. When there is no piravi ( birth ) where is the question of it's payan ( object of this birth ) ? ( this reply however, might take the questioner back to the never ending question of ' what is all this about if there was no birth ... when did it begin...' ). May I ask which verse ( number ) in Gita where Bh. Krishna says to Arjuna that he is Arjuna himself ? ( Not that I am questioning your statement, I'd like to read it myself ). Om Tat Sat Guru Venkat kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: First of all, if the goal is adviata which is non-duality, then that need to be understood rather than gained. Finite cannot become infinite nor gain infiniteness unless one already is infinite. The bondage is when one takes oneself to be other than what one is, and realization is to recognize the error - Hence there is no real path other than correct understanding of what one is. Moksha is called 'praaptasya praaptam' gaining what one already has and not apraaptasya praaptama ' gaining what one does not have. Hence the statement of Shankara that it is only the teaching of one self as the self in all - the essence of Upanishad teaching of 'tat tvam asi or aham brahmaasmi'. Krishna in Geeta did not teach any different either if one looks at it correctly. 'sarva bhuutastam aatmaanam sarva bhuutaanica aatmani' one who recognizes that all beings in oneself and oneself in all beings - he is the mumukshuH. Now with all due respects to all the saints you have mentioned, I am not going to venture into certification of who is or was realized and who has not. Bhakti involves a bhakta and object of Bhakti- as long as that duality persists, there is obviously no realization of oneness of Bhakata and object of bhakti. I am able to venture into this statement since this is not Bhakti-list but advaitin list. As long as there is a speck of difference or duality , fear will be there and not solvation. 'udaramantaram kurute atha tasya bhayam bhavati' says T.Upa. Arjuna was afraid of Vishvaruupa since he saw only duality not the indentification of oneness even though Krishna declared that he is Arjuna too. Hence Shankara defines in the VivekachuuDamaNi Bhakti as 'moksha kaaraNa saamaagryam bhaktireva gariiyasi| svasvaruupanusandhaanam bhaktiri tyabhi dhiiyate|| 'swaatmaanubhava sandhaanam bhaktirityapare jaguH|| Of all the paths, Bhakti is supreme and - what is that Bhakti? it is contemplation on one's own self. Experience of oneself is Bhakti - says others' In contrast Bhagavaan Ramamnuja also agrees that moksha involves j~naana but that j~aana involves 'bhakti ruupaka j~naana'. Hence each aachaarya interpreted the teaching differently to suite their teaching. As I mentioned this list serve being advaitin - the emphasis is on Shankara's teaching of adviata philosophy. I hope I am clear. Hari OM! Sadananda Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 --- Guru Venkat <v_vedanti wrote: .. > May I ask which verse ( number ) in Gita where Bh. Krishna says to > Arjuna that he is Arjuna himself ? ( Not that I am questioning your > statement, I'd like to read it myself ). > Om Tat Sat > Guru Venkat Shree venkat, It is in Ch. 10 Vibhuuti yoga - sloka 37 KrishNa says - vRishhNiinaama vaasudevosmi, paanDavaanaam dhyanjaya - I am Vaasudeva among the VishhNivamashaa and the dhananjaya (one of the ten names of Arjuna) among the PanDava-s. Hari OM! Sadananda ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 dear friend, if you read chapter 10 sloka 37 in that sri krishna says, vrishninam vasudevasya pandavanam dhananjaya.. also read the slokas before that pranams cdr bvnadvaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada> wrote: > > --- Guru Venkat <v_vedanti> wrote: > . > > May I ask which verse ( number ) in Gita where Bh. Krishna says to > > Arjuna that he is Arjuna himself ? ( Not that I am questioning your > > statement, I'd like to read it myself ). > > Om Tat Sat > > Guru Venkat > > Shree venkat, > > It is in Ch. 10 Vibhuuti yoga - sloka 37 > KrishNa says - vRishhNiinaama vaasudevosmi, paanDavaanaam dhyanjaya - I > am Vaasudeva among the VishhNivamashaa and the dhananjaya (one of the > ten names of Arjuna) among the PanDava-s. > > Hari OM! > > Sadananda > > ===== > What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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