Guest guest Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 Hi Madathil & Geet, Apologies for butting in here. I would not normally pull you up on a point such as this, Madathil-ji, since I know that you are well aware of the truth of the matter but, since your explanation is to Geet, who is seemingly not so knowlegeable, I was worried that there might be some misleading taking place. You said: "Who is enlightened? That entity, which hithertofore felt that it was the roles, body, mind, intellect, ego etc. Once the false identifications are demolished, it realizes that IT ITSELF IS THE TRUTH – AWARENESS, CONSCIOUSNESS." The problem here is partly due to the language, of course. But when trying to talking about how things 'really' are, one has to be ever so careful. The word 'enlightenment' probably ought to be banned, implying as it does that a person can change their state from being 'unenlightened' to 'enlightened'. This cannot be true since there never was an 'entity' to begin with and 'enlightenment' is not a state. Since knowledge of the truth entails understanding that this is the case, there could never be an 'it' to 'realize that it itself is the truth'. The fact of the matter is that any attempt to set all of this down in words in such a way that it is unambiguous and irrefutable is doomed. Reality is beyond objective understanding. This is why sages often simply resort to silence - the background truth to all equivocal speech. Hope this hasn't confused you, Geet - you get this all the time with Advaita! Hope you did not mind the interruption. Now, please continue! :>) I'm enjoying your posts as usual! Best wishes to all, Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2003 Report Share Posted February 24, 2003 Thanks, Dennis-Ji. I am fully with you. In fact, if I remember right, we are again on the same advaitic nuance which we discussed before on this forum and concluded that attempts to set the ineffable in words in such a way that it is unambiguous and irrefutable are always doomed. In fact, I debated this point before I replied Geet. That was why I delayed my reply. I know Geet from another Group. She is very sensitive to the suffering of others. If I understand right, she works in an environment where human suffering, pain and misery are the order of the day. She is perhaps a person of Mother Theresa's conviction. I couldn't, therefore, afford to talk to her the way I talk to another Advaitin. Even so, I was feeling a little guilty if I had been harshly advaitic after I posted my reply. I only hope we have carried Geet with us and she is able to appreciate advaita even as she wipes the tears of others. Thanks and regards. Madathil Nair ______________________________ advaitin, "Dennis Waite" <dwaite@a...> wrote: > You said: "Who is enlightened? That entity, which hithertofore felt that it > was the roles, body, mind, intellect, ego etc. Once the false > identifications are demolished, it realizes that IT ITSELF IS THE TRUTH – > AWARENESS, CONSCIOUSNESS." > > The problem here is partly due to the language, of course. But when trying > to talking about how things 'really' are, one has to be ever so careful. The > word 'enlightenment' probably ought to be banned, implying as it does that a > person can change their state from being 'unenlightened' to 'enlightened'. > This cannot be true since there never was an 'entity' to begin with and > 'enlightenment' is not a state. Since knowledge of the truth entails > understanding that this is the case, there could never be an 'it' to > 'realize that it itself is the truth'. The fact of the matter is that any > attempt to set all of this down in words in such a way that it is > unambiguous and irrefutable is doomed. Reality is beyond objective > understanding. This is why sages often simply resort to silence - the > background truth to all equivocal speech. Hope this hasn't confused you, > Geet - you get this all the time with Advaita! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Namastey , My divine sisters and brothers, Yes, I work in a hospice and with blind kids ,, their sufferings touch me so much that I have no words to explain ,for that one can only look in my heart ,,, I have been a Sw.Vivekanada devotee all life although being a Arya Samaji , to me advaita is not a new concept , but like I have always told our divine brother nairji , its very difficult for me to let go matter , according to swamiji no two things exist together , the spirit and matter are ultimately the same ,,how can we let go matter then ? And if we talk of matter then how can one let go sufferings? Its not easy to see little kids suffering from pain , from terminal cancer , leprosy ,, how can we then just let go saying its *maya* , sorry , its very difficult for me to do that , and thats why I asked why this intelligence too? and ofcourse our divine brother knowing me , gave me a reply which I am still contemplating on .. "IT and consciousness , both are relatively the same terms , but give me sometime to present my question more clearly . Thanks for being so good and taking time to explain ,, I m truly touched , and if I ever say anything wrong , pls pls forgive me ,, love geet "Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair" <madathilnair wrote:Thanks, Dennis-Ji. I am fully with you. In fact, if I remember right, we are again on the same advaitic nuance which we discussed before on this forum and concluded that attempts to set the ineffable in words in such a way that it is unambiguous and irrefutable are always doomed. In fact, I debated this point before I replied Geet. That was why I delayed my reply. I know Geet from another Group. She is very sensitive to the suffering of others. If I understand right, she works in an environment where human suffering, pain and misery are the order of the day. She is perhaps a person of Mother Theresa's conviction. I couldn't, therefore, afford to talk to her the way I talk to another Advaitin. Even so, I was feeling a little guilty if I had been harshly advaitic after I posted my reply. I only hope we have carried Geet with us and she is able to appreciate advaita even as she wipes the tears of others. Thanks and regards. Madathil Nair ______________________________ advaitin, "Dennis Waite" <dwaite@a...> wrote: > You said: "Who is enlightened? That entity, which hithertofore felt that it > was the roles, body, mind, intellect, ego etc. Once the false > identifications are demolished, it realizes that IT ITSELF IS THE TRUTH – > AWARENESS, CONSCIOUSNESS." > > The problem here is partly due to the language, of course. But when trying > to talking about how things 'really' are, one has to be ever so careful. The > word 'enlightenment' probably ought to be banned, implying as it does that a > person can change their state from being 'unenlightened' to 'enlightened'. > This cannot be true since there never was an 'entity' to begin with and > 'enlightenment' is not a state. Since knowledge of the truth entails > understanding that this is the case, there could never be an 'it' to > 'realize that it itself is the truth'. The fact of the matter is that any > attempt to set all of this down in words in such a way that it is > unambiguous and irrefutable is doomed. Reality is beyond objective > understanding. This is why sages often simply resort to silence - the > background truth to all equivocal speech. Hope this hasn't confused you, > Geet - you get this all the time with Advaita! Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 --- g <geet57 wrote: > > Namastey , > My divine sisters and brothers, > Yes, I work in a hospice and with blind kids ,, > their sufferings touch me so much that I have no > words to explain ,for that one can only look in my > heart ,,, Namaste, May I please give some personal experience on this. I used to work voluntarily with children suffering from the horrors of spina bifida as well as those having a variety of severe mental problems. On two occasions something was seen that I would to offer. One was of a spina bifida girl of about seven years of age who lay on her mat from which she could not move, her eyes rolling wildly, and dribbling continuously. She was a pitiful sight but one day I 'saw' behind this outer form a subtle smile in her being; I really do not want to try to explain this better but it carried a phrase 'All will be well' with it. This was not a lone occurrence because the same smile was seen again in a young boy whose only way of meeting the world was to run around, destroying the work of other children, swearing constantly as he did so. Not a child to warrant much pity but surely one suffering greatly as a human being. One day that same smile was seen behind his outward expression which was normally quite demonic. Seeing beyond the outward forms gave inspiration to something later. My professional life was at the other extreme or working with highly privileged and intelligent pupils in a private school. Inevitably some in this school would fail and develop attachments to various ego-based strategies to get attention. ie. They were the problem pupils. I decided to take them to work with the previously mentioned handicapped children. Without exception, the 'problem pupils' left their periods in those difficult situations shining. The light in their eyes revealed as the veils of self-absorption fell away as they had to serve the children who could give them nothing. Not all of us manifest the qualities to be able to work in such environments and I am full of admiration for those that do. My limited experience opened a window on the possibility that we could see beyond the outer form while serving that outer form fully, I hope that this is not too much of a diversion, Ken Knight Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Namaste: The subtle message of Shankara's advaita philosophy is the recognition that Divinity is ever present and everywhere present. Due to our ignorance that we fail to see and recognize divinity. When we recognize the sufferings of others, kindness and compassion get injected in our hearts as an expression of divine presence. Postings that can cultivate kindness and compassion in our hearts are very much appreciated. Your and Geetji's posts reminds the Divine Presence' to everyone and they are certainly attractions and not distractions! These are the glories of the Lord and we are all blessed to hear His glories again and again, Warmest regards, Ram Chandran -- In advaitin, ken knight <hilken_98@Y...> wrote: > > --- g <geet57> wrote: > > > > Namastey , > > My divine sisters and brothers, > > Yes, I work in a hospice and with blind kids ,, > > their sufferings touch me so much that I have no > > words to explain ,for that one can only look in my > > heart ,,, > > Namaste, > > May I please give some personal experience on this. > ................... > I hope that this is not too much of a diversion, > > Ken Knight > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.