Upadesha Sahasri (Verse Section 2)

[Guest guest]

Namaste all,

This second section is short and a simple statement of

advaita and ends with the the direction to find the

teacher.

The first verse....and its various repetitions

later...have always concerned me inasmuch as the

practice of neti neti is an action, no matter how fine

an action of reflection, and as an action it cannot

reveal the Atman. It can only burnish the mirror as it

were as long as the mirror is believed to exist.

That said, if the mahavakya ayam atman brahma is to be

realised, then the practice is valid.

 

With this in mind I prefer Alston's translation in

this instance but that is only my opinion so I include

the three translations of the crucial part of the

first verse:

CHAPTER II

 

NEGATION

 

 

 

 

 

1. Impossible to be negated, the Self is left

over on

the authority of the Shruti, ‘Not this, not this.’ So,

the Self becomes clearly known on the reflection

(Jagadananda), [One attains it in some such way

(mayeda)] [it is directly apprehended (alston), ‘I am

not this, I am not this.’

 

2. The consciousness of egoism (i.e., the

mistaken

identity of the Self with the body etc.,) has its

origin in the intellect and has for its object what

(name and form) is based on words (Ch.Up.6.1.4-6)

only. As its very nature and origin are both negated

(by the Shruti, ‘Not this, not this’), egoism can

never again be regarded as founded on any evidence.

 

3. A subsequent knowledge does not arise without

negating the previous one (e.g., the knowledge of the

rope does not come without destroying that of the

snake in a rope-snake). Pure Consciousness, the Self,

only has all independent existence and is never

negated as it is the result of evidences.

 

4. One attains one’s own innermost Self by

crossing

the forest of this body infested with ferocious beasts

of grief, delusion etc., like the man of the country

of Gandhara who crossed the forest and reached his own

country. (Ch.Up. 6.14)

 

 

Happy studying

 

 

Ken Knight

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Kenji,

 

In the following paragraph::

> 3. A subsequent knowledge does not arise without

> negating the previous one (e.g., the knowledge of the

> rope does not come without destroying that of the

> snake in a rope-snake). Pure Consciousness, the Self,

> only has all independent existence and is never

> negated as it is the result of evidences.

>

 

 

did you mean "Pure Consciousness, the Self, only has

all independent existence and is never negated as it is

*NOT* the result of evidences"?

 

The Self is Self Evident. I do not need

to consult the Shruti to "prove" or provide evidence

for my existence. I know that I exist prior to my knowing

anything else. Everything else is known following the

knowledge that I exist. This every lay person knows.

 

Then what does the Shruti provide? It knocks off all

false conclusions that are present regarding the Self

evident Self. Today the Self-evident Self is taken to be

the not self. The shruti shows me the Self-evident Self

as it IS.

 

regards,

--Satyan

[Guest guest]

--- Satyan Chidambaran <satyan_c wrote:

> > 3. A subsequent knowledge does not arise

> without

> > negating the previous one (e.g., the knowledge of

> the

> > rope does not come without destroying that of the

> > snake in a rope-snake). Pure Consciousness, the

> Self,

> > only has all independent existence and is never

> > negated as it is the result of evidences.

> >

>

>

> did you mean "Pure Consciousness, the Self, only has

>

> all independent existence and is never negated as it

> is

> *NOT* the result of evidences"?

 

 

Namaste Satyan,

The above translation ( without the NOT ) is as given

by Swami Jagadananda and in a footnote he refers us

back to verses 103 and 108 in the prose section Maybe

you would like to have a look at these...they were

posted a while back in this series so if you go to the

archives you can pick them up from there. If that does

not work I will copy and paste them in a reply for

you.

I had the same query as yourself when I read these

words. Mayeda and Alston try to translate the

relevant text differently:

Mayeda:

'The Seeing (=Atman) is one alone, self-established.

As It is the result [of the right means of knowledge]

It is not negated.' He also refers us back to the

same verses as above but also to Ch. Up. II.2.77;93

 

Alston:

'The one Seer is self-revealed. Beacause it is itself

the resultant awareness (in all knowledge process) it

is Itself never contradicted.'

He then notes (never-contradicted: It could contradict

itself only if it were different from itself.)

 

The Sanskrit is:

d^RiShir ekaH svayaM-siddhaH phalatvAt sa na bAdhyate

>

> The Self is Self Evident. I do not need

> to consult the Shruti to "prove" or provide evidence

> for my existence. I know that I exist prior to my

> knowing

> anything else. Everything else is known following

> the

> knowledge that I exist. This every lay person knows.

 

This is indeed the problem. In order to establish

duality or difference 'I' have to claim existence.

Would you say that there is an important teaching on

'aham' ( I am)...the feeling of existence, to be

teased out on this one?

>

> Then what does the Shruti provide? It knocks off all

> false conclusions that are present regarding the

> Self

> evident Self. Today the Self-evident Self is taken

> to be

> the not self. The shruti shows me the Self-evident

> Self

> as it IS.

When the RgVeda says:

‘What thing I truly am I know not clearly; mysterious,

fettered in my mind I wander.' Rg Veda 1.164.37

it is giving us the essential verse to begin our

enquiry into 'Who am I?' and then proceed though the

neti neti process being taught by Shankara in this

section.

 

Many thanks for your comments. Maybe you can come

back with your thought on the verses 103 and 108.

 

Best wishes

 

ken Knight

> regards,

> --Satyan

>

>

 

 

 

 

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