[Fwd: Consciousness is One]

[Guest guest]

Shanti Benjamin,

 

In my post of yesterday, in the paragraph before last I used the word

"oneness".

Should had I have reffered to "non-duality"?

Oneness is appropriately used for the Isvara loka/level,

and the manas could possibly reach that level, but only in the event it

is able to totally re-absorb the object of perception into the

perceiver-subject. Susupti is the refernce state for that level.

At that level duality would still be present in potentiality

but we could already say that "Consciousness is One".

In fact it embraces this whole manifestation.

Can our mind grasp it? Eventually it will, but mine, as probably most

people's at the present state of consciousness cannot. People like

Jesus, and

others have, but possibly just a handfull per millennium!

Non-duality is beyond all this and oneness as well.

Can our mind grasp it? No manas/mind can, the tool is inadequate.

A manifestation that attained this level in the past century is probably

Ramana Maharshi. He rarely used words, but mostly silence.

So let's not despair. We are in good company.

 

I hope this helps in claryfing the previous post.

 

Shanti,

 

Carlo

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Carlo:

 

Your clarification is wonderful and you have stated it beautifully.

Let me add some additional comments in support of your contention.

 

The Ultimate Consciousness or absolute consciousness is one and the

relative consciousnesses that appear in multitudes have no

independent existence. These relative consciousnesses (individual

souls) are the creations from an 'uncontrolled mind.' The

usage, "mind is a monkey" is a true reflection of a mind that

restlessly jumps all over. Verses 66 to 68 below discusses why we

need to control the mind.

 

nasti buddhir ayuktasya na cayuktasya bhavana

na cabhavayatah santir asantasya kutah sukham (66)

There is no knowledge of the self to the unsteady and to the unsteady

no meditation is possible, and to the un-meditative there can be no

peace and to the man who has no peace, how can there be happiness?

 

indriyanam hi caratam yan mano 'nuvidhiyate

tad asya harati prajnam vayur navam ivambhasi (67)

For the mind which follows in the wake of the wandering senses,

carries away one's discrimination, as the wind carries away a boat on

the waters.

 

tasmad yasya maha-baho nigrhitani sarvasah

indriyanindriyarthebhyas tasya prajna pratisthita (68)

Therefore, Oh Arjuna, his knowledge is steady whose senses are

completely restrained from sense-objects.

 

When the mind indulges in sensory perceptions, we lose our sense of

balance and mental peace (verse 66). Sthitaprajna implies realization

of the "Absolute Reality," though such realization may be possible,

it can't be described. Gita stresses that sensory perceptions are the

concrete walls between the human and the Divine. Unless we break the

concrete wall, we can't visualize Divinity. Sensory perceptions

create the illusion of joy, sorrow, good, bad, like and dislike.

Verse 67 is a beautiful poem with deep insights and it illustrates

the destructive power of the rowing senses. What will happen to a

ship without the navigator on the deep sea? Powerful wind that

carries the ship will cause the ship to capsize. Similarly, the sense

organs without any control will make life helpless and purposeless.

Ships in deep seas are subject to unexpected dangers from the strong

currents of the wind. Human lives without any control on senses are

likely to lose peace by the formidable influence of sensual leasures.

Verse 68 reinforces the message that the perfect yogi has complete

control of the senses over the sense-objects.

 

As you rightly pointed out only controlled mind can grasp the TRUTH

and realize non-duality. The uncontrolled mind is also known as

the 'impure-mind,' and the process of purification become necessary

to reach the spiritual platau. The subdued mind becomes stable and

the Yogi with the stable mind becomes the 'Stithaprajna.' Only Yogis

and sages who have attained the status of Stithaprajna such as Ramana

Maharishi can grasp the truth of 'non-duality.'

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, Carlo Frua <cfda@s...> wrote:

> Shanti Benjamin,

>

> In my post of yesterday, in the paragraph before last I used the

> word "oneness". Should had I have reffered to "non-duality"?

> ............

> Non-duality is beyond all this and oneness as well.

> Can our mind grasp it? No manas/mind can, the tool is inadequate.

> A manifestation that attained this level in the past century is

probably

> Ramana Maharshi. He rarely used words, but mostly silence.

> So let's not despair. We are in good company.

>

> I hope this helps in claryfing the previous post.

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

I forgot to mention that these verses come from Gita, Chapter 2. The

verse #s 55 to 72 of chapter 2 discuss the characteristics and

importance of the Stithaprajna (Stable minded person - Perefect

Yogi). The list discussed these verses during the Gita Satsangh and

entire discussions are availale in the list archives.

 

Let me add some points that are worth mentioning in the context of

the on going discussions. The statement that believe in advaita

should necessarily imply that I accept everything that Sankara

postulates in the Advaita Vedanta Philosophy. It is true that we are

not able to grasp everything that what Sankara states. This is where

one has to rely on supporting statements in Sastras and also by sages

and saints at different points of time. But if we try to mix some

parts of Sankara's philosophy with other competing philsophies or by

philosophies of our own creation, we contradict our own beliefs!

 

Let me give an example in support of my assertion in the previous

paragraph. The recipie for PIZZA, Spaghetti, Lasagna, etc. include a

specific list of ingredients along with the method of preparation. If

we mix up the ingredients and/or substituting them with alternative

items with our imagination then the resultant product will not be the

same! Even if we call them with the same names and forms someone will

likely reject it.

 

I remember a funny film sing in Tamil: "Talavalliku Oru Matthirai,

Jadumathukoru matthirai, thavari mari thinnupottal dharumaloga

yathirai!"

Here is the translation - 'One tablet can cure headaches and another

may be effective for cold or fever; But a wrong choice has high

potential for eventual catastrope!' We are aware of these problems

and we do to a doctor for finding a remedy (sometime consult several

doctors) and also read all the available literature to avoid

mistakes.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...>

wrote:

> Verses 66 to 68 below discusses why we

> need to control the mind.

>

> nasti buddhir ayuktasya na cayuktasya bhavana

> na cabhavayatah santir asantasya kutah sukham (66)