Guest guest Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 My Salutations To Sri Dakshinamurthi Namaste: Here is my understanding of NithidhyAsana. In a single phrase it is always said as " Being established in the knowledge", but to elaborate further with an example would be like this; 1) A person does sravana, then manana. Lets say as a young boy today I go to school. The teacher teaches me; 1 + 1 = 2. Now this would be like Sravana. 2) After coming back home I do my home work. Here the question first asks 1 + 1 = ? and recollecting what I have learnt I answer. Then another question asks for example; John has 1 orange Jill has 1 orange. How many oranges are there altogether? Now I need to think 1 + 1 = 2...so 1orange + 1orange = 2oranges. And it goes on....This would be something like manana. Here I look at the knowledge heard at different angles/perspectives, and in the process clear any doubts that might be there. 3) Meditation on the knowledge that has now been learnt begins the assimilation process. Back to the example. Now that I know 1+1=2 and in many situations in my daily life i come across its applications(this would be like the constant meditation), the knowledge of 1+1=2 becomes part of me. Even if the greatest teacher might come and say 1+1=3...I would be outright able to see the flaw in the persons statement. Similarly during NithidhyAsana one meditate constantly on the knowledge and it becomes a part of the person. An analogy could be from the Tamil proverb which say, ' as an ant crawls over an rock for ages, eventually you will see a scar formed on the rock indicating the travel path of the ant.' Similarly even though we might have many vasanas already in our mind...by doing constant NithidhyAsana on the knowledge of truth, we will come to have another vasana,but this vasana we really need for now....for it develops moksha iccha(desire)....which will furthur bring the individual on his journey. OM! D Suneail d.suneail |---------+----------------------------> | | "S. Venkatraman" | | | <venkat52 (AT) satyam (DOT) | | | net.in> | | | | | | 03/20/2003 07:23 | | | PM | | | Please respond to| | | advaitin | | | | |---------+----------------------------> >-\ --------------| | | | advaitin | | cc: | | What is NithidhyAsana? | >-\ --------------| I had picked up sometime back through one of the discourses that I attended (I can't now remember which one) that there are 3 levels of ignorance: 1. I don't know, 2. I don't understand, and 3. I don't have the experience. I was also told that Sravana (Listening) is for removing level 1 ignorance, Manana (reflecting) for level 2 and nithidhyAsana (meditating) for level 3. I always had a nagging doubt that there were gaps in my understanding of nithidhyAsana. The doubt arises out of such common sense considerations: If as I am told my bondage was due to an error of the type involved in mistaking a rope for a snake, then I could understand that this error can be removed by listening to an authoritative person (guru) who sees things more clearly. I could also understand the role of Manana in situations where I have lingering doubts even after listening to an authoritative person. Here to remove those doubts, I may do some self-reflection, or may ask for a few more clarifications from my Guru or may even reflect a torch light on the 'snake' to make my knowkedge entirely doubt-free. The role of nithidhyAsana (experience) in this example, however, was not very clear? I could never say if the problem was with my understanding of nithidhyAsana or if it was due to limitations of the rope-snake metaphor. Understanding nithidhyAsana as dhyAna of the type described by Patanjali did make sense because stilling of mental vrittis/ modifications and thereby having a calm frame of mind can indeed make one more receptive to sravana and manana. But this appeared to be a process quite separate from the operation of shabda pramANa which the scriptures say, is alone required for Moksha. Sometimes nithidhyAsana is even referred to as 'Direct intuitive experience' arising out of listening to/ refecting upon the words of the shastra. Sometimes it is also called 'contemplation' which seems to me like more of manana. I know I have tied myself into knots on something very fundamental. It can also be due to over analysing things. Would, in any case, request for help from advaitins. PranAms, Venkat Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 Namaste, Another way of looking at this issue may be: 1. shravaNa - listening with total attention [sensory level] [in the Gita, Krishna uses the imperative 'shR^iNu' to Arjuna nearly 10 times!]- especially fruitful when a teacher speaks to the disciple]. sarvaguhyatamaM bhuuyaH shR^iNu me paramaM vachaH . ishhTo.asi me dR^iDhamiti tato vakShyaami te hitam.h .. 18\-64.. 2. manana - discriminating between more than one thoughts - [in essence, Atma-anAtma-vastu-viveka] intellectual level] adhyeshhyate cha ya imaM dharmya.n sa.nvaadamaavayoH . GYaanayaGYena tenaahamishhTaH syaamiti me matiH .. 18\-70.. 3. nididhyAsana - concentrating on ONE thought of Atman/iShTa only [like the 'uninterrupted stream of oil'- tailadhAravat]. viviktasevii laghvaashii yatavaakkaayamaanasaH . dhyaanayogaparo nitya.n vairaagya.n samupaashritaH .. 18\-52.. When this becomes effortless, even the thought vanishes: shanaiH shanairuparamed.h bud.hdhyaa dhR^itigR^ihiitayaa . aatmasa.nsthaM manaH kR^itvaa na ki~nchidapi chintayet.h .. 6\-25.. [in Sri Ramana's words - Upadesha-saram - hR^itsthale manaH sa.nsthitaa kriyA . bhakti yoga bodhashcha nishchitam.h ..] This is the goal all the yogas - karma, bhakti, rAja,j~nAna. Regards, Sunder advaitin, "S. Venkatraman" <venkat52@s...> wrote: > I had picked up sometime back through one of the discourses that I > attended (I can't now remember which one) that there are 3 levels of > ignorance: > > 1. I don't know, > 2. I don't understand, and > 3. I don't have the experience. > > I was also told that Sravana (Listening) is for removing level 1 > ignorance, Manana (reflecting) for level 2 and nithidhyAsana > (meditating) for level 3. > > I always had a nagging doubt that there were gaps in my understanding > of nithidhyAsana. The doubt arises out of such common sense > considerations: > > If as I am told my bondage was due to an error of the type involved > in mistaking a rope for a snake, then I could understand that this > error can be removed by listening to an authoritative person (guru) > who sees things more clearly. I could also understand the role of > Manana in situations where I have lingering doubts even after > listening to an authoritative person. Here to remove those doubts, I > may do some self-reflection, or may ask for a few more clarifications > from my Guru or may even reflect a torch light on the 'snake' to make > my knowkedge entirely doubt-free. The role of nithidhyAsana > (experience) in this example, however, was not very clear? I could > never say if the problem was with my understanding of nithidhyAsana > or if it was due to limitations of the rope-snake metaphor. > > Understanding nithidhyAsana as dhyAna of the type described by > Patanjali did make sense because stilling of mental vrittis/ > modifications and thereby having a calm frame of mind can indeed make > one more receptive to sravana and manana. But this appeared to be a > process quite separate from the operation of shabda pramANa which the > scriptures say, is alone required for Moksha. Sometimes nithidhyAsana > is even referred to as 'Direct intuitive experience' arising out of > listening to/ refecting upon the words of the shastra. Sometimes it > is also called 'contemplation' which seems to me like more of manana. > > I know I have tied myself into knots on something very fundamental. > It can also be due to over analysing things. Would, in any case, > request for help from advaitins. > > PranAms, > Venkat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh> wrote: > Namaste, Correction! > hR^itsthale manaH sa.nsthitaa kriyA . > bhakti yoga bodhashcha nishchitam.h ..] should read - hR^itsthale manaH svasthatA kriyA . bhakti yoga bodhashcha nishchitam.h .. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 Namaste Sunderji, Your quotes from the Gita/ Upadesa Saram and your explanations were most useful and have clarified a lot for me. One more question on a few things that are still not very clear. What is the difference between Dhyana, Upasana, meditation and nididhyasana ? Also I have heard of 'Vidyas' in upanishads which I understand are used in Meditation. Can you tell me something about them? Many thanks and pranAms, Venkat -- In advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh> wrote: > Correction! > > should read - > > hR^itsthale manaH svasthatA kriyA . > bhakti yoga bodhashcha nishchitam.h .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 advaitin, "S. Venkatraman" <venkat52@s...> wrote: > What is the difference between Dhyana, Upasana, meditation and > nididhyasana ? Also I have heard of 'Vidyas' in upanishads which I > understand are used in Meditation. Can you tell me something about > them? Many thanks and pranAms, Namaste Venkatji, As far as I understand it, dhyAna, nididhyAsana, and meditation are synonymous - meaning fixing the flow of think on one thought alone. Shankara defines it in Aparokshanubhuti (# 125) brahma eva asmi iti sadvR^ittyA nirAlambatayA sthitiH . dhyAnashabdena vikhyAtA paramAnandadAyinI .. ["Remaining independent of everything as a result of the unassailable thought, "I am verily Brahman", is well-known by the word Dhyana (meditation), and is productive of supreme bliss."] transl. Sw. Vimuktananda The word upAsanA (worship) indicates a process (sAdhanA) in which an aspirant (sAdhaka) engages in the pursuit of the spiritual goal (iShTa or sAdhya), ie. a 'triad' (tripuTI) exists. The word 'vidyA' refers to the technique that is used in the spiritual quest. Sw. Brahmananda, a disciple of Sw. Sivananda of Rishikesh (Divine Life Society), has culled 101 such techniques from the major Upanishads, and states this is not a comprehensive list! Hope this helps. Corrections are most welcome. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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