The wisdom of Dzogchen

[Guest guest]

DzogchenThe following piece is a composite of two interviews with

Surya Das, one

conducted by Fred von Allmen (copyright 1989), and one by Wes Nisker

with

Catherine Ingram. Additional portions of the interviews also appear

in the

Fall 1992 issue of Inquiring Mind. This piece was provided to Mt.

Kailas

BBS by Ann Parker, Boston area coordinator of The Dzogchen Foundation.

 

Q: We would like to talk about your practice in the Tibetan

tradition

of Dzogchen or the Great Practice.

Surya Das: Dzogchen basically deals with the innate intelligence

or

intrinsic awareness which all beings possess. It means seeing non-

dualistically rather than in the usual dualistic object-subject

dichotomy.

By definition, delusion is dualistic, while non-duality is ultimate

wisdom.

Dzogchen doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Buddhism. It is

the

and perfect nature of all things.

 

Q: It is said that in Dzogchen "the view" is of ultimate

importance.

Explain what is meant by view.

Surya Das: In Dzogchen the view comes first, and is crucial. The

view

is the outlook that everything is primordially pure and perfect just

as it

is. One might also say that the view is like vast space, without

center or

periphery, infinite and open. It's the big view, the overview of

overviews.

We call it the view from above. Dzogchen is like swooping down from

above.

The Dalai Lama once said that Dzogchen is the practice of Buddhas,

not the

practice of beings.

 

Q: How does Dzogchen enable people to recognize their true

nature?

SD: It is said that a practice like Dzogchen depends upon someone

being "introduced" to the ultimate nature. The word "ngotrod" in

Tibetan

means "to be introduced" but it also means "to identify". So

introduction

doesn't just mean somebody tells you about it; it means you've

recognized

it yourself. You've seen the sun break through the clouds, for a

moment at

least. The clouds might obscure the sun again, just as the mind

obscures

the innate awareness, but the important point is that we have

recognized

the ultimate nature with certainty; we have actually come to see how

things

are.

 

Q: And this practice of Dzogchen is for Buddhas, not for ordinary

beings?

SD: Remember we are all Buddhas. There is a great story about a

cook

in Adzum Trungpa's tent camp. Adzum Trungpa was a great master, and

one day

his cook, who was unlettered and untrained, burned his hand in the

fire and

"woke up". He came running to the master and told him what he had

realized.

Everything fell apart in that moment of burning his hand; he had a

total

satori breakthrough and non-dual experience. He realized who he was

and the

nature of all things. The master said, "That's it!" And the cook

said, "Now

what?" And the master said, "Keep cooking."

That cook became a great yogi, and he just kept cooking. But he

had

that big view, which is not intellectual. it's not a philosophical

view.

It's your intuitive highest wisdom. It's your gestalt, your overview,

which

is prethought, really. It's how you see the world.

 

Q: So Dzogchen has nothing to do with knowledge or

sophistication, or

with this or that school or tradition?

SD: That's right. If you want to entitle this interview "We are

all

Buddhas" I think it might be appropriate, because Dzogchen is

beyond "isms"

and "schisms." It's beyond Buddhism. We're all Buddhas, some asleep

and

some awakened. A sleeping Buddha and an awakened Buddha are both

Buddhas by

nature. And our only task is to awaken to our true nature. That's

Dzogchen

teaching, in my own words.

 

 

Mike