RE: Digest Number 1666

[Guest guest]

Michael to Dennis:

"'But this reality, mayvic reality is an illusion and part of the illusion

is the idea that our will is free'

Is it possible to partition off the problem of free-will from the total

advaitic vision as being part of relative reality?"

 

D: I thought this was acknowledged. In reality, the idea has no meaning;

within the phenomenal realm, it appears as though we have free will.

 

Michael: "It should be possible to consider it separately from Karma,

destiny and predestination."

 

D: I don't think you can. Karma is all about action. Again in reality there

is no 'doer' but while we think that we act, most of us are going to think

we also choose which way to act. If, by predestination, you understand that

a god has planned what is going to happen, then this is clearly in

contradiction to free will. I don't like the word for this reason. If you

believe that everything that happens does so as a result of a long complex

chain of cause and effect, then again there is no free will but no

'planning' is involved. It amounts to the same thing in the end and I think

that is what Venkat, KKT, Benjamin, myself and Ramesh) believe.

 

Michael: "Not any one bit of our present context such as free-will is false

within the whole."

 

D: Don't know what you mean here. You mean in reality (paramArtha)? In

reality, all of the limited appearances are false; superimpositions as a

result of ignorance.

 

Michael: "Interestingly Sankara's view of causality, based on the

satkaryavada theory of the Samkhyas, is that of transformation (act and

potency)".

 

D: But this is only at the level of appearance (vyavahAra). In reality there

is no cause and effect, obviously. If there were there would have to be

duality.

 

Venkat to Sadananda:

"4. If I have no free will, the scriptures themselves and all the sadhanas

prescribed by them - karma theory, papa, punya,

purushaarthas, Bhakti, Dhyaana, Jnaana all - become purposeless."

 

D: Apologies for jumping in here but I assume you would welcome potential

help from any direction. I do not see any contradictions here. In reality

there is no 'you' and no limitation. If you like, you are already

enlightened. What prevents recognition of this is ignorance. All of the

sAdhanA-s that you mention have the effect of gradually removing this

ignorance. Once the ignorance is fully removed, the truth (which was always

the truth) is realised. Now, whether you follow these practices or not is

not governed by free will, it is a cause and effect chain following on from

nature, nurture etc., part of which is all of this stuff that you are

reading now and all of the rest of the Advaita teachings. It is quite likely

that these will accumulate to the point that you do undertake the practices

and ultimately realise the truth.

 

Madathil to Venkat: Also jumped in to answer the question - perhaps the two

together will solve the problems.

 

Best wishes,

 

Dennis