Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Namaste! Here is a question that you might find either interesting or silly. At least it will lighten up the conversation briefly. And I think it is actually something worth thinking about and relevant to our topic. When I was younger and had more red blood in my veins, I got quite a thrill listening to symphonies by the famous German composer Beethoven. (I also listened to rock music, but let's forget about that.) Now Indians may not be too familiar with Beethoven's symphonies, but you've probably had some exposure and know that they can be loud, dramatic, passionate but also tender and beautiful. In other words, they are full of rajas (passion). Now my understanding of meditation, Advaita, Zen, and Eastern spirituality in general, is that we replace rajas in our minds with sattva (calm and peaceful luminosity), and then we transcend even sattva into some inexpressible nondual realm. So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so passionate? I'm quite serious about this question, and I feel that it has many important implications for the spiritual quest. I used to love rajas (or at least the beautiful and soul-stirring varieties of rajas) so much. Do I have to shave my head and give that all up to become a saint? I might add that I now listen to a lot of peaceful classical Indian music and like that a lot ... especially the flute. Om! Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Dear Bejamin, > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's >symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and >peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so passionate? This question is by no means silly. Every 'mundane' experience that we have ( such as tooth-ache or enjoying beethoven music) if they are 'real', then they will continue to be real irrespective of the so called 'enlightenment'. The dawn of knowledge has never destroyed anything ( except correcting itself ) for anyone. But those of us who declare every 'mundane' experience that we have is "unreal", "superimposed" etc and make theories about why it is "unreal", are the same people who run to a dentist. - Benjamin Root advaitin Monday, April 14, 2003 10:06 AM Beethoven and Advaita Namaste! Here is a question that you might find either interesting or silly. At least it will lighten up the conversation briefly. And I think it is actually something worth thinking about and relevant to our topic. When I was younger and had more red blood in my veins, I got quite a thrill listening to symphonies by the famous German composer Beethoven. (I also listened to rock music, but let's forget about that.) Now Indians may not be too familiar with Beethoven's symphonies, but you've probably had some exposure and know that they can be loud, dramatic, passionate but also tender and beautiful. In other words, they are full of rajas (passion). Now my understanding of meditation, Advaita, Zen, and Eastern spirituality in general, is that we replace rajas in our minds with sattva (calm and peaceful luminosity), and then we transcend even sattva into some inexpressible nondual realm. So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so passionate? I'm quite serious about this question, and I feel that it has many important implications for the spiritual quest. I used to love rajas (or at least the beautiful and soul-stirring varieties of rajas) so much. Do I have to shave my head and give that all up to become a saint? I might add that I now listen to a lot of peaceful classical Indian music and like that a lot ... especially the flute. Om! Benjamin Sponsor Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 advaitin, "Jay Nelamangala" <jay@r...> wrote: > Dear Bejamin, > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > >symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and > >peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so passionate? > > This question is by no means silly. of this message have been removed] Namaste All, I think that can be answered by what these people say. That all is seen as part and parcel of the Divine. Also many Jivanmuktis still sang bhajans and other songs. The difference is that the Universal Sakti works throught the body instead of an individual ego sense. That is my guess on this subject. That the music is enjoyed for what it really is not for what it does.......ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Namaste Sri Jay Nelamangala: You said: >Every 'mundane' experience that we have (such as >tooth-ache or enjoying beethoven music) if they are 'real', >then they will continue to be real irrespective of the so >called 'enlightenment'. The dawn of knowledge has never >destroyed anything (except correcting itself) for anyone. > >But those of us who declare every 'mundane' experience that >we have is "unreal", "superimposed" etc and make theories >about why it is "unreal", are the same people who run to a >dentist. What you say is intriguing, but could you please elaborate a bit more? For example, do you really think that a present day Shankara would be inclined to listen to passionate music, or, heaven forbid, watch cricket or American football? (And let's not even mention Bollywood and Hollywood!) Doesn't it seem that true saints tend to prefer meditative peace and quiet? Think of Ramana ... an interesting case, considering he was a boxer in his youth. He did not remain a boxer... Pranams Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hari OM! Dear Benjamin, The attitude towards the wordly or Rajasic things changes when we are realized, they also live in this world, but the attitude towards things and the temptations from the different stimuli does not affect the mind. Because to the very reason that they are not identified with the mind! With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > Dear Bejamin, > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > >symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and > >peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > passionate? > > This question is by no means silly. > > Every 'mundane' experience that we have ( such as tooth-ache or > enjoying beethoven music) if they are 'real', then they will > continue to be real > irrespective of the so called 'enlightenment'. The dawn of > knowledge has > never destroyed anything ( except correcting itself ) for anyone. > > But those of us who declare every 'mundane' experience that we have > is "unreal", "superimposed" etc and make theories about why it is > "unreal", > are the same people who run to a dentist. > > > > > - > Benjamin Root > advaitin > Monday, April 14, 2003 10:06 AM > Beethoven and Advaita > > > > Namaste! > > Here is a question that you might find either interesting > or > silly. At least it will lighten up the conversation briefly. > And I > think it is actually something worth thinking about and relevant > to > our topic. > > When I was younger and had more red blood in my veins, I > got > quite a thrill listening to symphonies by the famous German > composer > Beethoven. (I also listened to rock music, but let's forget > about > that.) Now Indians may not be too familiar with Beethoven's > symphonies, but you've probably had some exposure and know that > they > can be loud, dramatic, passionate but also tender and beautiful. > In > other words, they are full of rajas (passion). > > Now my understanding of meditation, Advaita, Zen, and > Eastern > spirituality in general, is that we replace rajas in our minds > with > sattva (calm and peaceful luminosity), and then we transcend even > > sattva into some inexpressible nondual realm. > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and > > peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > passionate? > > I'm quite serious about this question, and I feel that it > has > many important implications for the spiritual quest. I used to > love > rajas (or at least the beautiful and soul-stirring varieties of > rajas) so much. Do I have to shave my head and give that all up > to > become a saint? > > I might add that I now listen to a lot of peaceful > classical > Indian music and like that a lot ... especially the flute. > > Om! > Benjamin > > Sponsor > > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > Messages Archived at: > advaitin/messages > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Namaste Benjamin-ji, advaitin, Benjamin Root <orion777ben> wrote: So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so passionate? KKT: From "Krishnamurti - The Open Door" by Mary Lutyens, p.53 [...] I couldn't understand his very ambivalent attitude to art and literature and learning--he often praised people of scholarship and achievement, and although he claimed to read nothing but the dictionary and detective stories, he did tell me of a time when he was quite alone at Ojai and played Beethoven's last symphony over and over again on his record player, just lived with Beethoven's music and was perfectly content. Yet he often said it was not necessary to read or write, one ought to be able to live in complete solitude, happy with the trees and plants and birds, and not requiring anything else. [...] Peace, KKT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Namaste , " So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so passionate?" Isn't everything the Brahman ? Nada Bindu Kaladhi Namo Namo... Nada is sound. so why can't somebody enjoy music ? Om Tat SatG.Venkat Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hari OM to all music lovers, I know one satsang teacher who maintains that after realization, you will like Bach, not Beethoven. The reason being that Bach comes straight from Consciousness, whereas Beethoven comes from the level of the mind. He is serious about that, but do you see the point? It's a case of projecting one's own tastes upon an image of the Absolute, nothing more. BTW, there are many many contemporary sattvic musical pieces that are not classically inspired at all. When I was interested in this topic. One CD is called Tamboura, and it is available thru the SYDA Yoga group - it's like a one-note raga - very soothing. Myself, I used to listen to deep space music for this purpose, which would "take me deeper." I have lots of references on this if anyone is interested. --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Dear Krishna Prasad, I always had this question. If we say, everything in this world appears as they are because of adhyAsa and therefore nothing is real except Brahman, then as belonging to this world, this theory itself is unreal. So, instead of dropping this theory of adhyAsa, why are we still clinging onto this theory which denies its own existence. VedAnta must be something more solid than this self negating theory. Don't you think?. - Krishna Prasad advaitin Monday, April 14, 2003 4:14 PM Re: Beethoven and Advaita Hari OM! Dear Benjamin, The attitude towards the wordly or Rajasic things changes when we are realized, they also live in this world, but the attitude towards things and the temptations from the different stimuli does not affect the mind. Because to the very reason that they are not identified with the mind! With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > Dear Bejamin, > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > >symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and > >peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > passionate? > > This question is by no means silly. > > Every 'mundane' experience that we have ( such as tooth-ache or > enjoying beethoven music) if they are 'real', then they will > continue to be real > irrespective of the so called 'enlightenment'. The dawn of > knowledge has > never destroyed anything ( except correcting itself ) for anyone. > > But those of us who declare every 'mundane' experience that we have > is "unreal", "superimposed" etc and make theories about why it is > "unreal", > are the same people who run to a dentist. > > > > > - > Benjamin Root > advaitin > Monday, April 14, 2003 10:06 AM > Beethoven and Advaita > > > > Namaste! > > Here is a question that you might find either interesting > or > silly. At least it will lighten up the conversation briefly. > And I > think it is actually something worth thinking about and relevant > to > our topic. > > When I was younger and had more red blood in my veins, I > got > quite a thrill listening to symphonies by the famous German > composer > Beethoven. (I also listened to rock music, but let's forget > about > that.) Now Indians may not be too familiar with Beethoven's > symphonies, but you've probably had some exposure and know that > they > can be loud, dramatic, passionate but also tender and beautiful. > In > other words, they are full of rajas (passion). > > Now my understanding of meditation, Advaita, Zen, and > Eastern > spirituality in general, is that we replace rajas in our minds > with > sattva (calm and peaceful luminosity), and then we transcend even > > sattva into some inexpressible nondual realm. > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and > > peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > passionate? > > I'm quite serious about this question, and I feel that it > has > many important implications for the spiritual quest. I used to > love > rajas (or at least the beautiful and soul-stirring varieties of > rajas) so much. Do I have to shave my head and give that all up > to > become a saint? > > I might add that I now listen to a lot of peaceful > classical > Indian music and like that a lot ... especially the flute. > > Om! > Benjamin > > Sponsor > > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > Messages Archived at: > advaitin/messages > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax. Sponsor Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hari OM! Dear Jay, Nothing is real except Brahman, is that is real or not??? Why we do belong to the world, because we still have vasanas to get burned! So when we belong to the world this world is really really real. Actually Who decides Vedanta must be something solid??? Please ask the question....??? Then we will get the answer. Vedanta is always solid only, it gives different views and different catalyst to point out the truth, by Adhyasa alone one cannot realize only by the grace! one can realize, It is very much needed, other wise we will become all raw Philosophers. The power and determination The Vairagya, is given to you by the Full Grace from the Source. That is called God's Will. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > Dear Krishna Prasad, > > I always had this question. > > If we say, everything in this world appears as they are because of > adhyAsa > and therefore nothing is real except Brahman, then as belonging > to this world, > this theory itself is unreal. So, instead of dropping this theory > of adhyAsa, > why are we still clinging onto this theory which denies its own > existence. > > VedAnta must be something more solid than this self negating > theory. > Don't you think?. > > - > Krishna Prasad > advaitin > Monday, April 14, 2003 4:14 PM > Re: Beethoven and Advaita > > > Hari OM! > > Dear Benjamin, > > The attitude towards the wordly or Rajasic things changes when we > are > realized, they also live in this world, but the attitude towards > things and the temptations from the different stimuli does not > affect > the mind. Because to the very reason that they are not identified > with the mind! > > With Love & OM! > > Krishna Prasad > > > > > --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > > Dear Bejamin, > > > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > > >symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise > and > > >peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > > passionate? > > > > This question is by no means silly. > > > > Every 'mundane' experience that we have ( such as tooth-ache or > > enjoying beethoven music) if they are 'real', then they will > > continue to be real > > irrespective of the so called 'enlightenment'. The dawn of > > knowledge has > > never destroyed anything ( except correcting itself ) for > anyone. > > > > But those of us who declare every 'mundane' experience that we > have > > is "unreal", "superimposed" etc and make theories about why it > is > > "unreal", > > are the same people who run to a dentist. > > > > > > > > > > - > > Benjamin Root > > advaitin > > Monday, April 14, 2003 10:06 AM > > Beethoven and Advaita > > > > > > > > Namaste! > > > > Here is a question that you might find either > interesting > > or > > silly. At least it will lighten up the conversation briefly. > > > And I > > think it is actually something worth thinking about and > relevant > > to > > our topic. > > > > When I was younger and had more red blood in my veins, > I > > got > > quite a thrill listening to symphonies by the famous German > > composer > > Beethoven. (I also listened to rock music, but let's forget > > about > > that.) Now Indians may not be too familiar with Beethoven's > > symphonies, but you've probably had some exposure and know > that > > they > > can be loud, dramatic, passionate but also tender and > beautiful. > > In > > other words, they are full of rajas (passion). > > > > Now my understanding of meditation, Advaita, Zen, and > > Eastern > > spirituality in general, is that we replace rajas in our > minds > > with > > sattva (calm and peaceful luminosity), and then we transcend > even > > > > sattva into some inexpressible nondual realm. > > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > > > symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise > and > > > > peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > > passionate? > > > > I'm quite serious about this question, and I feel that > it > > has > > many important implications for the spiritual quest. I used > to > > love > > rajas (or at least the beautiful and soul-stirring varieties > of > > rajas) so much. Do I have to shave my head and give that all > up > > to > > become a saint? > > > > I might add that I now listen to a lot of peaceful > > classical > > Indian music and like that a lot ... especially the flute. > > > > Om! > > Benjamin > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > > Advaitin List Archives available at: > > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > > Messages Archived at: > > advaitin/messages > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > http://tax. > > Sponsor > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > Messages Archived at: > advaitin/messages > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax. 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Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Dear Venkat, What started in Rig-vEda "purusha-evEdam-sarvam" (Everything is Brahman) is stated as "sarvam khalvidam brahma" (everything is indeed Brahman)" in the upanishats. What does this really mean? Does it mean the pen, paper, on my table, the music I hear, are all Brahman?. The answer to this question is given in 11th chapter of the Geetha, "savam samApnOshi tatOsi sarvaha" (God is all because He is in all). Everything in this world has its existence, goes thro various transformations by acquiring and/or loosing certain attributes, because Brahman exists in it, and controls it that is why God is described as "sarva-bhootAntarAtmA" by shruti. THis is precisely what Geetha is saying too. It is the theory of adhyAsa, which kind of throws all this shruti and smriti away. - Guru Venkat advaitin Monday, April 14, 2003 5:15 PM Re: Re: Beethoven and Advaita Namaste , " So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise and peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so passionate?" Isn't everything the Brahman ? Nada Bindu Kaladhi Namo Namo... Nada is sound. so why can't somebody enjoy music ? Om Tat SatG.Venkat Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more Sponsor Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Dear Krishna PrasAd, > It is very much needed, other >wise we will become all raw Philosophers. The power and determination >The Vairagya, is given to you by the Full Grace from the Source. That >is called God's Will. I am 110% in agreement with you. This is precisely what prasthAna-traya says. You are indeed talking vEdAnta here. >Vedanta is always solid only, it gives different views and different >catalyst to point out the truth, Many people think there are many philosophies. But, correct knowledge comes in only one variety, it is the wrong knowledge that always comes in many varieties. Thus, there can be only one philosophy( or brahma-vidyaa), and the rest are only so called. - Krishna Prasad advaitin Monday, April 14, 2003 6:35 PM Re: Beethoven and Advaita Hari OM! Dear Jay, Nothing is real except Brahman, is that is real or not??? Why we do belong to the world, because we still have vasanas to get burned! So when we belong to the world this world is really really real. Actually Who decides Vedanta must be something solid??? Please ask the question....??? Then we will get the answer. Vedanta is always solid only, it gives different views and different catalyst to point out the truth, by Adhyasa alone one cannot realize only by the grace! one can realize, It is very much needed, other wise we will become all raw Philosophers. The power and determination The Vairagya, is given to you by the Full Grace from the Source. That is called God's Will. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > Dear Krishna Prasad, > > I always had this question. > > If we say, everything in this world appears as they are because of > adhyAsa > and therefore nothing is real except Brahman, then as belonging > to this world, > this theory itself is unreal. So, instead of dropping this theory > of adhyAsa, > why are we still clinging onto this theory which denies its own > existence. > > VedAnta must be something more solid than this self negating > theory. > Don't you think?. > > - > Krishna Prasad > advaitin > Monday, April 14, 2003 4:14 PM > Re: Beethoven and Advaita > > > Hari OM! > > Dear Benjamin, > > The attitude towards the wordly or Rajasic things changes when we > are > realized, they also live in this world, but the attitude towards > things and the temptations from the different stimuli does not > affect > the mind. Because to the very reason that they are not identified > with the mind! > > With Love & OM! > > Krishna Prasad > > > > > --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > > Dear Bejamin, > > > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > > >symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise > and > > >peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > > passionate? > > > > This question is by no means silly. > > > > Every 'mundane' experience that we have ( such as tooth-ache or > > enjoying beethoven music) if they are 'real', then they will > > continue to be real > > irrespective of the so called 'enlightenment'. The dawn of > > knowledge has > > never destroyed anything ( except correcting itself ) for > anyone. > > > > But those of us who declare every 'mundane' experience that we > have > > is "unreal", "superimposed" etc and make theories about why it > is > > "unreal", > > are the same people who run to a dentist. > > > > > > > > > > - > > Benjamin Root > > advaitin > > Monday, April 14, 2003 10:06 AM > > Beethoven and Advaita > > > > > > > > Namaste! > > > > Here is a question that you might find either > interesting > > or > > silly. At least it will lighten up the conversation briefly. > > > And I > > think it is actually something worth thinking about and > relevant > > to > > our topic. > > > > When I was younger and had more red blood in my veins, > I > > got > > quite a thrill listening to symphonies by the famous German > > composer > > Beethoven. (I also listened to rock music, but let's forget > > about > > that.) Now Indians may not be too familiar with Beethoven's > > symphonies, but you've probably had some exposure and know > that > > they > > can be loud, dramatic, passionate but also tender and > beautiful. > > In > > other words, they are full of rajas (passion). > > > > Now my understanding of meditation, Advaita, Zen, and > > Eastern > > spirituality in general, is that we replace rajas in our > minds > > with > > sattva (calm and peaceful luminosity), and then we transcend > even > > > > sattva into some inexpressible nondual realm. > > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > > > symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise > and > > > > peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > > passionate? > > > > I'm quite serious about this question, and I feel that > it > > has > > many important implications for the spiritual quest. I used > to > > love > > rajas (or at least the beautiful and soul-stirring varieties > of > > rajas) so much. Do I have to shave my head and give that all > up > > to > > become a saint? > > > > I might add that I now listen to a lot of peaceful > > classical > > Indian music and like that a lot ... especially the flute. > > > > Om! > > Benjamin > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > > Advaitin List Archives available at: > > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > > Messages Archived at: > > advaitin/messages > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > http://tax. > > Sponsor > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > Messages Archived at: > advaitin/messages > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax. Sponsor Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Dear Krishna PrasAd, >Actually Who decides Vedanta must be something solid??? Please ask >the question....??? Then we will get the answer. Who decides VedAnta? Good question. Answer is pretty simple. Whoever is the author of two of the three in prasthAna-traya. Whoever has the capacity to divide vEda into 4 parts called rik, yajus, sAma and atharva. I hope you got the answer. - Krishna Prasad advaitin Monday, April 14, 2003 6:35 PM Re: Beethoven and Advaita Hari OM! Dear Jay, Nothing is real except Brahman, is that is real or not??? Why we do belong to the world, because we still have vasanas to get burned! So when we belong to the world this world is really really real. Actually Who decides Vedanta must be something solid??? Please ask the question....??? Then we will get the answer. Vedanta is always solid only, it gives different views and different catalyst to point out the truth, by Adhyasa alone one cannot realize only by the grace! one can realize, It is very much needed, other wise we will become all raw Philosophers. The power and determination The Vairagya, is given to you by the Full Grace from the Source. That is called God's Will. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > Dear Krishna Prasad, > > I always had this question. > > If we say, everything in this world appears as they are because of > adhyAsa > and therefore nothing is real except Brahman, then as belonging > to this world, > this theory itself is unreal. So, instead of dropping this theory > of adhyAsa, > why are we still clinging onto this theory which denies its own > existence. > > VedAnta must be something more solid than this self negating > theory. > Don't you think?. > > - > Krishna Prasad > advaitin > Monday, April 14, 2003 4:14 PM > Re: Beethoven and Advaita > > > Hari OM! > > Dear Benjamin, > > The attitude towards the wordly or Rajasic things changes when we > are > realized, they also live in this world, but the attitude towards > things and the temptations from the different stimuli does not > affect > the mind. Because to the very reason that they are not identified > with the mind! > > With Love & OM! > > Krishna Prasad > > > > > --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > > Dear Bejamin, > > > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > > >symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise > and > > >peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > > passionate? > > > > This question is by no means silly. > > > > Every 'mundane' experience that we have ( such as tooth-ache or > > enjoying beethoven music) if they are 'real', then they will > > continue to be real > > irrespective of the so called 'enlightenment'. The dawn of > > knowledge has > > never destroyed anything ( except correcting itself ) for > anyone. > > > > But those of us who declare every 'mundane' experience that we > have > > is "unreal", "superimposed" etc and make theories about why it > is > > "unreal", > > are the same people who run to a dentist. > > > > > > > > > > - > > Benjamin Root > > advaitin > > Monday, April 14, 2003 10:06 AM > > Beethoven and Advaita > > > > > > > > Namaste! > > > > Here is a question that you might find either > interesting > > or > > silly. At least it will lighten up the conversation briefly. > > > And I > > think it is actually something worth thinking about and > relevant > > to > > our topic. > > > > When I was younger and had more red blood in my veins, > I > > got > > quite a thrill listening to symphonies by the famous German > > composer > > Beethoven. (I also listened to rock music, but let's forget > > about > > that.) Now Indians may not be too familiar with Beethoven's > > symphonies, but you've probably had some exposure and know > that > > they > > can be loud, dramatic, passionate but also tender and > beautiful. > > In > > other words, they are full of rajas (passion). > > > > Now my understanding of meditation, Advaita, Zen, and > > Eastern > > spirituality in general, is that we replace rajas in our > minds > > with > > sattva (calm and peaceful luminosity), and then we transcend > even > > > > sattva into some inexpressible nondual realm. > > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > > > symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so wise > and > > > > peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > > passionate? > > > > I'm quite serious about this question, and I feel that > it > > has > > many important implications for the spiritual quest. I used > to > > love > > rajas (or at least the beautiful and soul-stirring varieties > of > > rajas) so much. Do I have to shave my head and give that all > up > > to > > become a saint? > > > > I might add that I now listen to a lot of peaceful > > classical > > Indian music and like that a lot ... especially the flute. > > > > Om! > > Benjamin > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > > Advaitin List Archives available at: > > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > > Messages Archived at: > > advaitin/messages > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > http://tax. > > Sponsor > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of > nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > Messages Archived at: > advaitin/messages > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax. Sponsor Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hari OM! Dear Jay, Who decides Vedanta should be solid, not the Author of Prasthanathrya, Author of Prasthanathraya is clear about things!!! (but You and I!) Why we feel Vedanta is not solid? the simple reason is we are ignorant.... because of the intellectual conviction, Brahman is Beyond the Intellect, Many a times, we are just held up in Intellect! Intellect is only an equipment to have discrimination, the deciding factor of the Mind! So, By HIS grace only things will become clear, Now a days the argument goes on between beliefs, anybody have a view against the other belief, then an argument happens. Beliefs are only Pointers to realize the Truth, It is not the end in itself. We catch hold of certain belief and we are stuck there... Please Think...and go beyond the intellect. GOD + EGO = Man Man - EGO = GOD. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > Dear Krishna PrasAd, > > >Actually Who decides Vedanta must be something solid??? Please ask > >the question....??? Then we will get the answer. > > Who decides VedAnta? Good question. > > Answer is pretty simple. Whoever is the author of two of the > three in prasthAna-traya. > Whoever has the capacity to divide vEda into 4 parts called rik, > yajus, sAma and atharva. > > I hope you got the answer. > - > Krishna Prasad > advaitin > Monday, April 14, 2003 6:35 PM > Re: Beethoven and Advaita > > > Hari OM! > > Dear Jay, > > Nothing is real except Brahman, is that is real or not??? Why we > do > belong to the world, because we still have vasanas to get burned! > > So when we belong to the world this world is really really real. > > Actually Who decides Vedanta must be something solid??? Please > ask > the question....??? Then we will get the answer. > > Vedanta is always solid only, it gives different views and > different > catalyst to point out the truth, by Adhyasa alone one cannot > realize > only by the grace! one can realize, It is very much needed, other > wise we will become all raw Philosophers. The power and > determination > The Vairagya, is given to you by the Full Grace from the Source. > That > is called God's Will. > > With Love & OM! > > Krishna Prasad > > > --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > > Dear Krishna Prasad, > > > > I always had this question. > > > > If we say, everything in this world appears as they are because > of > > adhyAsa > > and therefore nothing is real except Brahman, then as > belonging > > to this world, > > this theory itself is unreal. So, instead of dropping this > theory > > of adhyAsa, > > why are we still clinging onto this theory which denies its own > > existence. > > > > VedAnta must be something more solid than this self negating > > theory. > > Don't you think?. > > > > - > > Krishna Prasad > > advaitin > > Monday, April 14, 2003 4:14 PM > > Re: Beethoven and Advaita > > > > > > Hari OM! > > > > Dear Benjamin, > > > > The attitude towards the wordly or Rajasic things changes > when we > > are > > realized, they also live in this world, but the attitude > towards > > things and the temptations from the different stimuli does > not > > affect > > the mind. Because to the very reason that they are not > identified > > with the mind! > > > > With Love & OM! > > > > Krishna Prasad > > > > > > > > > > --- Jay Nelamangala <jay wrote: > > > Dear Bejamin, > > > > > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's > > > >symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so > wise > > and > > > >peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > > > passionate? > > > > > > This question is by no means silly. > > > > > > Every 'mundane' experience that we have ( such as > tooth-ache or > > > enjoying beethoven music) if they are 'real', then they > will > > > continue to be real > > > irrespective of the so called 'enlightenment'. The dawn of > > > knowledge has > > > never destroyed anything ( except correcting itself ) for > > anyone. > > > > > > But those of us who declare every 'mundane' experience that > we > > have > > > is "unreal", "superimposed" etc and make theories about why > it > > is > > > "unreal", > > > are the same people who run to a dentist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Benjamin Root > > > advaitin > > > Monday, April 14, 2003 10:06 AM > > > Beethoven and Advaita > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste! > > > > > > Here is a question that you might find either > > interesting > > > or > > > silly. At least it will lighten up the conversation > briefly. > > > > > And I > > > think it is actually something worth thinking about and > > relevant > > > to > > > our topic. > > > > > > When I was younger and had more red blood in my > veins, > > I > > > got > > > quite a thrill listening to symphonies by the famous > German > > > composer > > > Beethoven. (I also listened to rock music, but let's > forget > > > about > > > that.) Now Indians may not be too familiar with > Beethoven's > > > symphonies, but you've probably had some exposure and > know > > that > > > they > > > can be loud, dramatic, passionate but also tender and > > beautiful. > > > In > > > other words, they are full of rajas (passion). > > > > > > Now my understanding of meditation, Advaita, Zen, > and > > > Eastern > > > spirituality in general, is that we replace rajas in our > > minds > > > with > > > sattva (calm and peaceful luminosity), and then we > transcend > > even > > > > > > sattva into some inexpressible nondual realm. > > > > > > So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy > Beethoven's > > > > > symphonies after we are enlightened? Or do we become so > wise > > and > > > > > > peaceful that we no longer have a desire for anything so > > > passionate? > > > > > > I'm quite serious about this question, and I feel > that > === message truncated === Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax. 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Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Namaste! I see a number of interesting answers so far to my original question, but I also see a deviation in this thread from my original question. Could we please just stick to the original question for a while, as I think that it may have considerable practical value to some spiritual aspirants. Basically, I was asking whether a highly spiritual person listens only to 'sattvic' (peaceful) music, or whether he can still appreciate 'rajasic' (passionate) music. (I assume that 'tamasic' music, if it exists, would be of no interest.) This matters to me, because I have found profound emotional inspiration in certain kinds of music that I would call rajasic, such as the music of Beethoven. And yet, it does seem to me that an enlightened person will listen only to sattvic music, such as gentle flutes or a soothing, droning sitar! Since I care about this, I will try to respond to all of you. Please scroll down and find your name if you are still interested! Sri Jay said: >Every 'mundane' experience that we have (such as tooth-ache >or enjoying beethoven music) if they are 'real', then they >will continue to be real irrespective of the so called >'enlightenment'. The dawn of knowledge has never destroyed >anything (except correcting itself) for anyone. Hmmm... It seems you are getting philosophical over what was more of a practical or emotional question. It's a very simple question! I was just wondering whether our taste in music changes after enlightenment to only peaceful and soothing sattvic music. Maybe I misunderstand you. Sri Krishna Prasad said: >The attitude towards the wordly or Rajasic things changes when >we are realized, they also live in this world, but the attitude >towards things and the temptations from the different stimuli >does not affect the mind. Because to the very reason that they >are not identified with the mind! This suggests to me that one can still enjoy rajasic music, but in complete detachment, without being affected by it. But can one feel passion without being passionate? Or does enlightenment cause one to simply lose interest in all passionate things? For example, it is well-known that saints tend to be single, and even Ramakrishna, though formally married, considered his wife to be more of a spiritual companion. Sri Jay then gave the following answer when I said: >>What you say is intriguing, but could you please elaborate a bit >>more? For example, do you really think that a present day Shankara >>would be inclined to listen to passionate music, or, heaven forbid, >>watch cricket or American football? (And let's not even mention >>Bollywood and Hollywood!) > >Of course not. We should not even bring the names of our >Acharyas into such discussions. Sorry if I offended you, Jay. I meant no disrespect to any Acharyas! I originally chose the music of Beethoven because, although rajasic, it nevertheless seems a lot more 'spiritual' than sports or popular entertainment. But I still wonder, with no disrespect, whether some saints might not enjoy a rough-and-tumble sport. I think that this is actually a rather good question. After all, Ramana WAS a boxer. But then, he gave it up and just sat all day in silence. Why? Then Sri Jay went on to say >But what I am trying to say is that correct knowledge does >not destroy the object of incorrect-knowledge. The object >stays the same, but the correct knowledge corrects the >incorrect knowledge. For example, the incorrect flat-earth >theory got corrected by the round-earth theory, but it >did not destroy the earth !!. More philosophy again! It seems you have some disagreement with the Advaitin theory of Avidya. But again, I am only talking about taste in music, art, etc. Dear phamdluan2000: That was a most excellent quotation regarding Krishnamurti. Most interesting and useful to me. And I do have high respect for Krishnamurti. I will track down the book you mentioned, 'Krishnamurti - the Open Door'. Thank you again. Dear Venkat: Good to hear from you again! Yes, everything is Brahman including Nada (sound). But still, tastes may change with enlightenment, just as we discard toys as we grow up. If you don't care for Beethoven, then think about some beautiful love story you have read, that moved you very much. It may have been beautiful, but do you think sages care about love stories? Maybe they do. I find this question very intriguing... Sri Greg wrote: >I know one satsang teacher who maintains that after realization, >you will like Bach, not Beethoven. The reason being that Bach >comes straight from Consciousness, whereas Beethoven comes from >the level of the mind. You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what I was talking about. This may well be true. I love music by both composers, but somehow I would feel very sad to abandon the music of Beethoven forever. It speaks to a very deep level of the heart, even if it seems contaminated by the 'mind'. Doesn't enlightenment sometimes seem a bit cold and impersonal, like spending forever on a Himalayan peak? Then you said: >He is serious about that, but do you see the point? It's a >case of projecting one's own tastes upon an image of the Absolute, >nothing more. Hmmm ... not quite sure how to read this. Do I listen only to Bach or might I also listen to Beethoven? I sense an interesting idea hidden in your words. Sure, please send me any interesting music to check out. I am musically omnivorous! You can send suggestions to orion777ben if you wish. Then this thread got very philosophical about Vedanta in general and seemed to forget all about my question. I'd love to hear any more ideas about my concern! And you are welcome to continue a different discussion under another thread. Om! 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Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Dear Benjamin, Here is a question that you might find either interesting or silly. Good question, some years ago I asked similar questions about music and enlightenment, although the music I was thinking of wasn't Beethoven So my silly question is: Can we still enjoy Beethoven's symphonies after we are enlightened? To answer your question; 'In' unity there is no me, we or even that. That means no 'you' or 'me' to enjoy Beethoven or anything. *There is an I and a that, if there is only I there is no that* Kind Regards, Scott. The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Jay : "Many people think there are many philosophies. But, correct knowledge comes in only one variety, it is the wrong knowledge that always comes in many varieties. Thus, there can be only one philosophy( or brahma-vidyaa), and the rest are only so called." Namaste Jay-ji, What you have mentioned above is exactly what I believed my entire life. There is only one Truth and there is only one Way to it. I just cant agree when people say this will lead to enlightment, this will also lead to enlightment, that will lead to enlightment, the other one will also lead to enlightment ! However going through your various postings makes me feel that you are very sure that THIS (Advaita Philosophy) falls in the Will-Not-Lead catogory !!!! Even though I've never read anything about Adi Sankaracharya and Advaita Philosophy, I always felt the essence of Advaita Philosophy in my mind and I had believed it to be the right way. But what do you believe? And where did your belief come from? Please dont tell me that your belief is solely rooted in the Scriptures and your academic knowledge and that it has no other grounds. Tell us what you feel (no inner meanings here please..I just mean plain old FEEL). Atleast we will know what we are up against !! Benjaminji, sorry it seems like so many other discussions have super-imposed on your subject line :-) Om ranjeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Namaste Shri Benjamin and all. A renowned Advaita teacher was once gracing a satsangh in our area. Housewives of the locality had prepared various delicacies to be served as prasAd at the end of the satsangh and my wife had contributed `tomato rasam' (an appetizer similar to mulligatawny), which is her forte. Swamiji had the rasam with relish and called out aloud for a second serving. Devotees rushed to fulfil his want. The scene made many to raise their eyebrows. The obvious question on their lips: Why should a renunciate be so very much interested in rasam? I believe rasam, because of its pungent constituents, is more rajasic than poor Beethoven. I don't want to name the Swamiji because that would raise a dispute whether or not he was enlightened, as he may have detractors on our List. To my knowledge, he is an enlightened personage who can effectively impart advaitic knowledge to any person of any level. I, therefore, rever him and consider him a jnAnaniStA. Swamiji's own explanation to his behaviour would be something as follows. Not that he said so on that occasion. This is my assumption based on his teachings. An enlightened person accepts everything and is in peace with everything in the world. If rasam is offered to him, he will have it and enjoy it too if he has a natural liking for it. But, he would not be uncomfortable without it. If he is compelled to remain in a place where rasam is unavailable, he would accept that situation with perfect equanimity and spend the rest of his life without any longing or craving for the delicacy. I believe the same would apply to Beethoven. If he likes Beethoven, then there is no need for him to run away from his rajasic music. He will enjoy it whenever available but would not insist and bother himself or others if Beethoven is not available. PranAms. Madathil Nair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Namaste Nairji Your explanation reminds me of this verse from the Bhagavad Gita: One attains peace in whose mind all desires enter without creating any disturbance, as river waters enter the full ocean without creating a disturbance. 2:70 best regards, K Kathirasan > > Madathil Rajendran Nair [sMTP:madathilnair] > Tuesday, April 15, 2003 1:43 PM > advaitin > Re: Beethoven and Advaita > > Namaste Shri Benjamin and all. > > A renowned Advaita teacher was once gracing a satsangh in our area. > Housewives of the locality had prepared various delicacies to be > served as prasAd at the end of the satsangh and my wife had > contributed `tomato rasam' (an appetizer similar to mulligatawny), > which is her forte. > > Swamiji had the rasam with relish and called out aloud for a second > serving. Devotees rushed to fulfil his want. The scene made many to > raise their eyebrows. The obvious question on their lips: Why > should a renunciate be so very much interested in rasam? > > I believe rasam, because of its pungent constituents, is more rajasic > than poor Beethoven. I don't want to name the Swamiji because that > would raise a dispute whether or not he was enlightened, as he may > have detractors on our List. To my knowledge, he is an enlightened > personage who can effectively impart advaitic knowledge to any person > of any level. I, therefore, rever him and consider him a jnAnaniStA. > > Swamiji's own explanation to his behaviour would be something as > follows. Not that he said so on that occasion. This is my > assumption based on his teachings. An enlightened person accepts > everything and is in peace with everything in the world. If rasam is > offered to him, he will have it and enjoy it too if he has a natural > liking for it. But, he would not be uncomfortable without it. If he > is compelled to remain in a place where rasam is unavailable, he > would accept that situation with perfect equanimity and spend the > rest of his life without any longing or craving for the delicacy. > > I believe the same would apply to Beethoven. If he likes Beethoven, > then there is no need for him to run away from his rajasic music. He > will enjoy it whenever available but would not insist and bother > himself or others if Beethoven is not available. > > PranAms. > > Madathil Nair > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of > Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of is subject to > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Dear Benjamin, Many a Venkat (apologies to Guru Venkat) spoils a discussion. I do not know which Venkat you were happy to hear from again; but it is your fate that Venkat from Mumbai who can joke about Ash (who by the way is now injured during shooting - clearly her fate, not free will) has taken upon himself to talk about Beethoven (whose music he does not know at all) and advaita (about which he thinks he knows a bit). They say little knowledge is dangerous. So please proceed further with this message at your own risk. Since I use some technical terms in this message which you (Yeah, I am sure you would not have heeded my advise in the last para) may not be familiar with, a short glossary should be helpful. Vada - A south Indian snack made of flour. Sambar - A south Indian soup-like preparation which can be infinitely more tasty than any soup one could have taken. Vada Sambar - A combination of the two which makes a great morning, evening or anytime snack. Q - Will I continue to like Beethoven's music even after I get enlightened? Here is a conversation which was narrated by Swami Dayananda Saraswathi in one of his discourses. It seems somebody came to Swamiji and asked him,"Swamiji,I like Vada Sambar very much. If I become a Swamiji like you will I stop liking it? Or to put the question more directly, do you like Vada Sambar?" Swami - Ofcourse, I like it very much. Whenever I eat, it I eat it with great relish. Man - How can you do that Swamiji, you are supposed to be above all likes and dislikes for which reason you are supposed to have given up things like Vada Sambar? Swami - When shastraas ask you to rise above likes and dislikes, they only mean that your happiness should not depend on them. So, while I like Vada Sambar very much, my happiness does not depend on it. Happiness is my natural state. When I have Vada Sambar for Break fast, I eat it with great passion and remain happy. If I don't have Vada sambar for breakfast, even then I remain happy. This is the difference between a Swami (enlightened man) and an ordinary man. A swami knows that he IS happiness and that happiness does not come from things, persons or events. An ordinary man mistakes things, persons and events to be the source of happiness and becomes miserable when they are not there. The mental disturbance caused by the absense of things, persons and events makes you loose touch with happiness that is you. When the disturbance ceases on acquisition, you reestablish contact and say that you have become happy. Renunciation is another word which is very badly translated. It does not mean giving up things to become happy. It only means GROWING OUT of the notion that happiness is in things. The short answer to your question is that you can and will continue to like Beethoven, rock music, Bollywood, Hollywood, Ash and whatever else as passionately and intensly after enlightenment as you do now. PranAms, Venkat. advaitin, Benjamin Root <orion777ben> wrote: > >> Dear Venkat: > > Good to hear from you again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 I remember a short story.. The Great mahan Sri Sadhasiva Brahmendra (Nerur..near Karur , tamilnadu, India) was once travelling on the banks of Kaveri and he wanted to rest..So he got the sand to some height and lay on it. Women who went to fetch water in river saw his pose and commented "Why does the all enlightened gnani need a pillow for his comfort"..hearing this...Brahmendral immediately pushed all the sand and lay on his hands.. the women who had fetched water and were returning. As soon as they saw that state ..they commented again "why does the jnani have to bother about comments,they supposed to have left everything..In tamil we call "Mutrum thuranthavar". Regards, Kamesh B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Lest I be accused of plagiarism, I hasten (at whatever speed my typing will allow) to add that if my post on the subject appears to be stating the same thing with Sambar that Nairji has said in his post with Rasam (a thinner version of Sambar which can at times get the better it), it only means that Nairji can type much faster than I can. Going by mere logic one can also say that I am as intelligent as Shri Nair. Well it's a free world (in the parts from which we are all sending these mails) and they can say that with perfect liberty. Their ignorance will be my bliss. pranAms, Venkat. advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair> wrote: >> Swamiji had the rasam with relish and called out aloud for a second > serving. Devotees rushed to fulfil his want. The scene made many to > raise their eyebrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Namaste Venkatji. No accusation of plagiarism. We were simply sharing the same frequency and, incidentally, the same source too! The Swamiji of my anecdote is none other than the indomitable DayAnanda Saraswatiji. My salutations to that ocean of wisdom. PranAms. Madathil Nair __________________ advaitin, "S. Venkatraman" <venkat52@s...> wrote: > Lest I be accused of plagiarism, I hasten (at whatever speed my > typing will allow) to add that if my post on the subject appears to > be stating the same thing with Sambar that Nairji has said in his > post with Rasam... ( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Dear Jay, you wrote :What does this really mean? Does it mean the pen, paper, on my table, the music I hear, are all Brahman?. The answer to this question is given in 11th chapter of the Geetha, "savam samApnOshi tatOsi sarvaha" (God is all because He is in all). Everything in this world has its existence, goes thro various transformations by acquiring and/or loosing certain attributes, because Brahman exists in it, and controls it that is why God is described as "sarva-bhootAntarAtmA" by shruti. THis is precisely what Geetha is saying too. It is the theory of adhyAsa, which kind of throws all this shruti and smriti away.***************************************** If you want to look at it from Advaita point of view, the pen , paper and the music are all Brahman.The straight answer is yes. God is in all is quite true. But it does not end there. It goes beyond to say that God is ALL. The purpose of any single verses you pick from Gita and Upanishads are to show you the path to the truth. These are the guiding lights. How best you make use of them to take you to the shore is up to you. The purpose of the Neti Neti... path is to show man that he is not he body, the mind etc. So he is lead to the Atman and it leaves you there. Man , when he reaches this state understands that all he sees is he himself and there is nothing else. His vision of the world is his own creation. In the Aitareya Upanishad : It says that in the beginning that there was only Brahman and nothing else. Then Brahman creates the worlds, Gods , creatures and finally man. He lets the Gods enter the body and finally seeing that he needs to be in the body for it to come alive, enters it from the aperture in the head. So you see, that which we call the world is something that came out of Brahman. How can it be anything but Brahman ? Did it come out of nothing ? Om Tat SatG.Venkat The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Dear Venkat, Venkat wrote :Many a Venkat (apologies to Guru Venkat) spoils a discussion. I do not know which Venkat you were happy to hear from again; but it is your fate that Venkat from Mumbai who can joke about Ash (who by the way is now injured during shooting - clearly her fate, not free will) has taken upon himself to talk about Beethoven (whose music he does not know at all) and advaita (about which he thinks he knows a bit). ************************************************************************* No apology required. Just a bit of confusion. I'll sign my name asG. Venkat ( for Guru Venkat ) so there is a clear distinction. ( Guru is just my name. Actually the full name is Guruprasad. So I am not a 'Guru' in the teacher sense :-) ) . G.Venkat The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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