Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 >>> JN: "Our experience alone is not the final pramANa because, each person has a different experience, and that experience is 'limited by' and 'limited to' that person. That is why we need something that is apourushEya such as vEda which is not 'limited by' any person, and the enquiry into that vEda which is not 'limited to' any one person. That enquiry comes in the form of shravaNa-manana-nidhidhyAsana or in short called as brahma-jignyAsA." --Jay <<< D: By the same token Veda comes through such beings who apparently are limited, and limiting, and therefore have distorted what they received by their preferences and prejudices, attachments, and tendencies. Our attempt is to reach to knowledge and goodness that is universal and impersonal, and then incarnate it as living action in our person. So that when we become selfless, as it is called, we are personalized organs of principles, functioning that energy and knowledge to and for the race, for its benefit, at God's behest. Purity is how we become ever more perfect vessels to express God, and purity means "not to divide." If we cannot do the above, then no scripture may be trusted. No matter how good you think what you have received is, it is still understood through the screen of your personal and cultural conditioning. Not to mention the bent of your desires and the quality your actual motives give to your efforts. If that conditioning cannot be overcome, and pure perception is not possible, then you have no hope of ever really understanding any scripture. You may think gaining such knowledge or understanding is inspiration by God, but it is still the man, such as he is, who is inspired, warts, distortions, and all. Whatever efforts he has made to become "Godlike", their success or dishonesty, play powerfully into his receptioon and expression of his "inspiration". Plus no man is inspired by God unless he is directly, even passionately, interested in the knowledge God might impart, is willing to act on it as if it were true and important, and who prepares himself for its reception by developing his capacitity to receive. By trueing his faculties or vestures. A pygmy can visit New York, and then return to his village and describe it. Except who but a pygmy would get anything out of it? And of what use would his knowledge be navigating or working in New York? If your capacities and vision are dwarfed by your attachments and your sins you cannot understand any more than your desires and identification will allow, of what is true. When pure perception is reached by mature effort its nature is such that it is no longer true that one is "limited by" or "limited to", as the perception, which is only made possible by getting "you" out of the way, is that which the Light of God itself shows is true about whatever you are considering. That is why Pataljali considers it apart from scripture, "since it is particular", and considers it to supersede scripture. Of what use is scripture to one who can se Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 Adviata list members. I have send this mail to Shreeman Jay. On the advise of Shree Ram Chandran I am posting this to the members at large so that they can have a feel for how the moderators are making sure that the integrity of the list is preserved. I am blessed that we have good team of moderators that are interested in the Knowledge. Hari OM! Sadananda > > kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada > > 2003/04/21 Mon PM 01:25:37 EDT > > jay, rchandran, sunderh, > profvk, > > gmurthy, goode, egodust > > CC: rchandran > > Re: Adhyasa - Final posting > > > > Sreeman Jay, > > > > Pranaams. I just came back from my travel and glanced through many > > mails on topics related to Adhyaasa. > > > > As we agreed upon, it is better to postpose the discussion on that > topic > > till what has already been said in the Notes on B. Suutra is > understood. > > The moderators after discussing the tone and contents of your mail > have > > come to a conclusion and they have asked me to relay that to you on > > their behalf. > > > > 1. I want to make sure you clearly understand the scope of the list > - It > > is centered on Advaita Vedanta as taught by Bhagavatpaada Adi > Shankara. > > The moderators have the duty to insure that the scope of the list is > not > > violated, since members have joined the list with that scope. > > > > 2. We do allow counter opinions and discussions and other > philosophies > > to some degree if those discussions help to strengthen our > understanding > > of Advaita Vedanta, since that is the purpose for the very existence > of > > this list. > > > > 3. In that spirit only we welcome your contributions provided you > follow > > these restrictions. Normally moderators do not stepin with such > > stringent restrictions but in your case it was necessitated by your > own > > mails. > > > > 4. First, I need your complete background information in terms of > the > > school you come from and your teachers and the sampradaaya that you > > represent. If you are author of your own sampradaaya, please state > that > > also, at least that will provide us by whom the objections are being > > raised. That is essential for us since you are arguing from the > > scriptural standpoint rather than just logical stand point. > > > > 5. Second, we would like you to go over the notes on B.Suutras, now > that > > Shree Sundar has provided us the contents in a form that is easily > > accessible. Since you are very keen on samanvaya - please study the > > notes through the samanvayaadhikaraNa. > > > > 6. Third, Please note that several puurvapaksha-s have already been > > treated in the notes. Make a note of all of them and then list only > > those objections of yours that have not already been addressed in > the > > notes. I want to stress the fact that we are not terribly interested > in > > your opinion or interpretation of the Vedic mantra-s or > mahavaakyaa-s. > > We want to hear from you, your main objections to the Advaita > Vedanta > > that have not been addressed already. > > > > 7. Fourth, Please prepare notes addressing only those objections > that > > have not been treated in the notes. > > > > 8. Now, in contrast to what was said in item 6, if you have an > alternate > > model to adhyaasa or the fundamental human problem and nature of > moksha > > and the means of arriving that moksha, since that is what we are all > > interested in, you are then welcome to propose your theory with > whatever > > support you can get. Moderators may bend their rules a little bit > since > > in the final analysis it may help the list members. > > > > 9. Finally you can send me your input with a copy to the moderators. > > Unfortunately due to lot of time constraints at my home front as > well as > > busy Vedanta classes, it will be difficult for me to respond > > immediately. But I will respond to the issues you have raised. > > > > 10. I will have the right to cut down from your input those parts > that I > > may feel that they have been covered already and will only address > those > > that need to be addressed. I may choose instead summarize your > > objections and provide references where those objections have been > > addressed due to my own time constraints. As I have stated before I > have > > no interest in any debate on the issues other than present my > > understanding counter to the objections you have raised. > > > > 12. As you have noticed we respect all acharya-s but strictly follow > > Advaita Vedanta as taught by Adi Shankara. Obviously we do not > allow > > any disrespect to any acharya-s. > > > > 11. If you agree to all these, you are welcome to submit your input. > > Otherwise I wish you all the best in your pursuit and I pray that > you > > reach your set goals. > > > > Hari OM! > > Sadananda > ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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