Guest guest Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 Hi Dennis, > Sorry, you seem to be playing with words here. I play with words a lot, but always in good humour. I do agree that in my last message to you my arguments were a little contrived but they were nevertheless very seriously made without any intention of playing with words. Just as I myself converted to the free will camp and now I am a very staunch believer in it thanks to some very able guidance from Sadanandaji, I was merely trying to present the new way I now look at the subject to my fellow advaitins. I do not know if there were any buyers out of the silent majority on the list, but atleast the three champions, yourself, Benjamin and Murthygaru remain convinced that we do not have free will. I would leave things there. Atleast in such discussions, in my opinion, the process is as important, if not more, as the conclusion. I now have far greater clarity on the subject than what I started with. I thank everyone for that. In any case Dennis, fate or free will, with this reply we on the list will have broken the previous record on the list for the maximum number of messages in a month. The previous record was 573 messages in the month of Jan 2001. This is the 574th message of the month of April 2003 which thereby will establish a new record for the list unless someone else beats me to it by hitting the 'send' button even as I am drafting this reply to you. Atleast I have the free will to decide to send the 574th message of April, 2003. Whether it will actually be that is not in my hands. pranaams, Venkat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 Dear Sir, Do you know of any computer system that operates by making instantaneous adjustments as and when an object changes its course by its own free will.What I mean is: if there is free will,then there should be a macrocosmic correcting system to adjust to the new and unexpected change in the course of action decided by x or y or....N. If there is no free will, then the whole universe runs its course as it is already programmed. Scientists say that even a flutter of the wings of a bird can cause a mighty snow storm in Alaska. Everything is interconnected in a network of options in this universe at the level of all the three types of action : physical,mental and vocal. As abeliever in free will, could you please throw some light on the interpretatation of the physical effects of free will on the universe. Thank you very much. As a matter of fact ,I have not been following the whole series of discussion on this matter owing to one reason or the other. Each is caught in his own web of vasanas and gunas and svabhavam and is impelled into action coloured by them.Where can a jiva bound by Prakruthi have free will ? It looks very paradoxical. With love , Yours cb On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 S. Venkatraman wrote : >Hi Dennis, > > > Sorry, you seem to be playing with words here. > >I play with words a lot, but always in good humour. I do agree >that >in my last message to you my arguments were a little contrived >but >they were nevertheless very seriously made without any intention >of >playing with words. Just as I myself converted to the free will >camp >and now I am a very staunch believer in it thanks to some very >able >guidance from Sadanandaji, I was merely trying to present the new >way >I now look at the subject to my fellow advaitins. I do not know >if >there were any buyers out of the silent majority on the list, >but >atleast the three champions, yourself, Benjamin and Murthygaru >remain >convinced that we do not have free will. I would leave things >there. >Atleast in such discussions, in my opinion, the process is as >important, if not more, as the conclusion. I now have far >greater >clarity on the subject than what I started with. I thank everyone >for >that. > >In any case Dennis, fate or free will, with this reply we on the >list >will have broken the previous record on the list for the >maximum >number of messages in a month. The previous record was 573 >messages >in the month of Jan 2001. This is the 574th message of the month >of >April 2003 which thereby will establish a new record for the >list >unless someone else beats me to it by hitting the 'send' button >even >as I am drafting this reply to you. > >Atleast I have the free will to decide to send the 574th message >of >April, 2003. Whether it will actually be that is not in my >hands. > >pranaams, >Venkat > > >------------------------ Sponsor > >Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of >nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. >Advaitin List Archives available at: >http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ >To Post a message send an email to : advaitin >Messages Archived at: >advaitin/messages > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 Namaste Bhuvaneswarji, In all humility I must say that it is beyond me to give you a convincing reply. I myself started on the side of 'fate' and as the discussions proceeded last month became convinced that we do have free will. I would refer you to the mails of Sadanandaji for the arguments in favour of free will. For counter arguments, please read the replies of Dennis-ji and Benjamin-ji. You seem to be scientifically inclined. You should find these mails extremely appealing to your scientific attitude. Sunderji, in one of his mails, has referred to an URL where you will find a dialogue with the Sringeri Acharya (the predecessor of the present acharya).The Acharya discusses the subject very lucidly. Hopefully at the end of all that reading you should be able to come to your own conclusions. Sorry, there is no short cut. pranAms,Venkat bhuvan eswar chilukuri <bhuvaneswarc wrote: Each is caught in his own web of vasanas and gunas and svabhavam and is impelled into action coloured by them.Where can a jiva bound by Prakruthi have free will ? It looks very paradoxical. Venkat : This was exactly the way I myself felt on the question of free will. Please read some of the mails of Sadanandaji for arguments against such a pessimistic world view. Plus - For a better Internet experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 Namasthe Shri Venkata Raman Avargal, Yesterday, I went to the River Godavari and was prostratrating at the lotus feet of Sri Vasishta's statue erected near the bank. I used to read his Yoga Vasishtam in which He asserts with absolute authority about free will. I am myself a staunch follower of free will concept.But that is a different issue.Your free will is your destiny and vice versa.Free will is there at the level of a liberated soul or one who is not bound by Prakruthi.For example,you have free will to feel sad or not but you will according to your svabhavam - that is my problem.Those who are victims of Prakruthi exercise their free will as bound will because of Prakruthi. My question is at the logical level of automatic regulation of this universe controlled by its own physical laws.Suppose , all people exercise their free will - theoretically ,it is possible even though in practice it never occurs - and do things the way they wanted ,then the whole universe has to automatically restructure itself to balance the free-will motivated actions. Otherwise,it will break down according to science.Even a tiny movement of an object is interconnected to a mind boggling macrocosmic programme of creative action.The universe is an ordered structure at the physical plane at least! I will write to you next year about this topic if we happen to get the chance.I am planning to go to the Himalayas and Arunachala after some time. These have to be sorted out by prathyaksha anubhavam and not by mmere academic discussion. Thank you so much for kindly sparing your valuable timme to reply. May the bliss of Sri Samkar Bhagavatpujyapada be on all of us. With Love and pranams, Chilukuri Bhuvaneswar I have a copy of Sri SRingeri Acharya's talk with his disciple On Thu, 08 May 2003 S Venkatraman wrote : >Namaste Bhuvaneswarji, In all humility I must say that it is >beyond me to give you a convincing reply. I myself started on the >side of 'fate' and as the discussions proceeded last month became >convinced that we do have free will. I would refer you to the >mails of Sadanandaji for the arguments in favour of free will. >For counter arguments, please read the replies of Dennis-ji and >Benjamin-ji. You seem to be scientifically inclined. You should >find these mails extremely appealing to your scientific attitude. >Sunderji, in one of his mails, has referred to an URL where you >will find a dialogue with the Sringeri Acharya (the predecessor >of the present acharya).The Acharya discusses the subject very >lucidly. Hopefully at the end of all that reading you should be >able to come to your own conclusions. Sorry, there is no short >cut. pranAms,Venkat > >bhuvan eswar chilukuri <bhuvaneswarc wrote: >Each is caught in his own web of vasanas and gunas and >svabhavam >and is impelled into action coloured by them.Where can a jiva >bound by Prakruthi have free will ? It looks very paradoxical. > >Venkat : This was exactly the way I myself felt on the question >of free will. Please read some of the mails of Sadanandaji for >arguments against such a pessimistic world view. > > > > > Plus - For a better Internet experience > > > > > >------------------------ Sponsor > >Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of >nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. >Advaitin List Archives available at: >http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ >To Post a message send an email to : advaitin >Messages Archived at: >advaitin/messages > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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