Jnana and Bhakti - Hi Tech investigation

[Guest guest]

Namaste all!

 

It just occurred to me that in our discussion of the relationship of

jnana and bhakti, we are not making full use of modern technology!

 

A key work of Shankara is the Vivekachudamani. A translation by John

Richards can be found at

 

http://www.realization.org/page/namedoc0/vc/vc_0.htm

 

I used a a search engine and looked for 'bhakti'. This word did not

occur, so I searched for 'devotion', which seemed like the closest

English word. I found 6 paragraphs with this word, which are shown

below. I realize that not all of these use devotion in the strong

sense of bhakti. Also, some of these paragraphs have already been

cited by others. Anyhow, it is interesting to see what this

'hi-tech' investigation produced!

 

 

Here are the paragraphs:

 

Among the contributory factors of liberation, devotion stands

supreme, and it is the search for one's own true nature that is meant

by devotion. 31

 

Others say that devotion is inquiry into the reality of one's own

nature. He who possesses the above qualities and would know the truth

about his own nature should take refuge with a wise guru who can free

him from his bonds. 32

 

After prostrating oneself with devotion before the guru and

satisfying him with prostrations, humble devotion and service, one

should ask him what one needs to know. 34

 

The practice of faith, devotion and meditation are declared by

scripture to be the means to liberation for a seeker after

liberation. He who perseveres in these will achieve freedom from the

bondage to the body, created by ignorance. 46

 

In purity mixed with the other qualities virtues such as humility,

restraint, truthfulness, faith, devotion, desire for liberation,

spiritual tendencies and freedom from entanglement occur. 118

 

Completely rooting out desire for the senses and abandoning all

activity by one-pointed devotion to liberation, he who is established

with true faith in study etc., purges away the passion from his

understanding. 182

 

Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Benjamin Root <orion777ben>

wrote:

>>

> It just occurred to me that in our discussion of the relationship

of

> jnana and bhakti, we are not making full use of modern technology!

>

> I used a a search engine and looked for 'bhakti'. This word did

not

> occur, so I searched for 'devotion', which seemed like the closest

> English word.

 

Namaste,

 

This also points to the limitations of hi-tech! Searching words

in translations may not be as satisfactory as in 'transliterated'

texts, where the original sanskrit words can be searched in Roman

script.

 

Another important aspect is the variety of words used that are

associated with 'bhakti', and cannot be dissociated from that word.

 

For example, in the Gita one can find these: prapannam,

praNipAtena, AshritaH, arpaNam, abhyarchya, prasIda, ananyayogena,

sharaNam, nityayukta, shraddha, prasAda, upAsanA, etc.

 

No translation can do justice to the nuances these words convey

in the original, but they all point in the direction of bhakti.

 

In fact, learning from a teacher involves 'guru-bhakti'; if one

considers the teacher as less than God, the Grace (prasAda) will not

be forthcoming. There is a whole book, Guru Gita, of 350 verses

extolling the role of the Guru. One of the meanings of the

word 'upanishad' is to sit reverentially at the feet of the teacher.

There is a saying, God's anger can be assuaged by the Guru, but the

Guru's can never be!

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Sunder!

>In fact, learning from a teacher involves 'guru-bhakti';

>if one considers the teacher as less than God, the Grace

>(prasAda) will not be forthcoming. There is a whole book,

>Guru Gita, of 350 verses extolling the role of the Guru.

>One of the meanings of the word 'upanishad' is to sit

>reverentially at the feet of the teacher. There is a saying,

>God's anger can be assuaged by the Guru, but the Guru's

>can never be!

 

I have no doubt that countless generations of seekers have attained

bliss and realization at the feet of a true guru, but the reference

to fear reminds me of some of the more unsavory aspects of the

Christian and Muslim traditions! I say run from all gurus who use

any form of intimidation, overt or covert.

 

Your other point about the nuances of different words for bhakti was

well taken. So my recommendation: Use a more sophisticated word

search! Perhaps even in Sanskrit.

 

I do believe that philological analysis of texts ... elementary or

sophisticated ... can reveal many interesting insights and patterns,

depending on our ingenuity. I intend to entertain myself again

sometime at being a 'Sherlock Holmes' of the scriptures! :-)

 

 

Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

Namste to all,

 

">One of the meanings of the word 'upanishad' is to sit

>reverentially at the feet of the teacher. There is a saying,

>God's anger can be assuaged by the Guru, but the Guru's

>can never be!"

 

What I've heard from a spiritual teacher is that the meaning of the word

'Upanishad' as "to sit reverentially at the feet of the teacher" is actually

wrong. It is a meaning given by the westerners.

 

The meaning the teacher gave was like this: Upa(very close) + ni (completely/

without any doubt) + shad (path/removal/gradual destruction). ie, upanishad is

one which when held very close to us(inside us) without any doubt will show you

the Path to moksha / will Remove all your ignorance / Gradually sets you free

from your karma-phala which will result in cessation of re-births.

 

I dont rememer it very clearly. Learned members, please advise.

 

Om

ranjeet

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Here is a passage from Kanchi Paramacharya's book, Hindu

Dharma' : [This should be standard reference work for any Hindu]. The

whole book is on-line].

 

http://kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part5/chap30.htm

 

 

"Upa-ni-sad" means to "sit near by". The Upanisads are the teachings

imparted by a guru to his student sitting by his side [sitting at his

feet]. You could also take the term to mean "that which takes one to

the Brahman". "Upanayana" may be interpreted in two ways: leading a

child to his guru; or leading him to the Brahman. Similiarly, the

term Upanisad could also be understood in the above two senses.

If a student sits close to the teacher when he is recieving

instruction it means that a "rahasya" (a secret or a mystery) is

being conveyed to him. Such teachings are not meant to be imparted to

those who are not sufficiently mature and who are not capable of

cherishing their value. That is why in the Upanisads themselves these

words occur where subtle and esoteric truths are expounded:"This is

Upanisat. This is Upanisat". What is held to be a secret in the Vedas

is called a "rahasya". In the Upanisads the term "Upanisat" is itself

used to mean the same. "

 

[That is why I had mentioned 'one of the meanings'.]

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

advaitin, "Ranjeet Sankar"

<thefinalsearch> wrote:

> Namaste to all,

>

> ">One of the meanings of the word 'upanishad' is to sit

> >reverentially at the feet of the teacher. There is a saying,

> >God's anger can be assuaged by the Guru, but the Guru's

> >can never be!"

>

> What I've heard from a spiritual teacher is that the meaning of the

word 'Upanishad' as "to sit reverentially at the feet of the teacher"

is actually wrong. It is a meaning given by the westerners.

>

> The meaning the teacher gave was like this: Upa(very close) + ni

(completely/ without any doubt) + shad (path/removal/gradual

destruction). ie, upanishad is one which when held very close to us

(inside us) without any doubt will show you the Path to moksha / will

Remove all your ignorance / Gradually sets you free from your karma-

phala which will result in cessation of re-births.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Benjamin-ji,

 

I think you are used to taking the word Guru in a very narrow

sense!

 

The Hindu tradition exhorts the child to revere the mother as

the first teacher, father as the second, preceptor as the third, and

guest as the fourth. These are all regarded as manifestations of God.

 

It then becomes easy for the child later on to seek a

spriritual teacher who can be trusted.

 

When in late life (or earlier for some) when all these are gone

he can also pray to the unseen God :

 

tvameva mAtA cha pitA tvameva tvameva bandhushcha sakhA tvameva |

 

tvameva vidyA draviNaM tvameva tvameva sarvaM mama deva deva ||

 

 

[O God! you are my Mother, Father, Brother, and Friend!

 

You are my Knowledge and Wealth! You are my All, O God!]

 

This may also explain the 'bhakti' naturalness of most Hindus, and

Sadaji's lament about his classmate's false pride of modernity.

 

The Real Entertainment is after moksha, not before!!

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

advaitin, Benjamin Root <orion777ben>

wrote:

>

>

I say run from all gurus who use

> any form of intimidation, overt or covert.

I intend to entertain myself again

> sometime at being a 'Sherlock Holmes' of the scriptures! :-)

>

>

> Om!

> Benjamin

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sunderji,

 

"Here is a passage from Kanchi Paramacharya's book, Hindu

Dharma' : [This should be standard reference work for any Hindu]. The

whole book is on-line].

 

http://kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part5/chap30.htm

 

 

"Upa-ni-sad" means to "sit near by". The Upanisads are the teachings

imparted by a guru to his student sitting by his side [sitting at his

feet]. You could also take the term to mean "that which takes one to

the Brahman". "

 

I think the second meaning(that which takes one to Brahman) is more

appropriate..There are so many other kinds of teachings which can be imparted by

a guru to his student which you cannot say as upanishad.

 

Om

ranjeet

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ranjeetji

 

If I am not wrong the meaning of the 'Upanishad' as told by the spiritual

teacher is found in the Upadesha Sahasri of Adi Shankara.

 

best regards,

K Kathirasan

>

> Ranjeet Sankar [sMTP:thefinalsearch]

> Sunday, May 18, 2003 8:57 PM

> advaitin

> Re: Re: Jnana and Bhakti - Hi Tech investigation

>

> Namste to all,

>

> ">One of the meanings of the word 'upanishad' is to sit

> >reverentially at the feet of the teacher. There is a saying,

> >God's anger can be assuaged by the Guru, but the Guru's

> >can never be!"

>

> What I've heard from a spiritual teacher is that the meaning of the word

> 'Upanishad' as "to sit reverentially at the feet of the teacher" is

> actually wrong. It is a meaning given by the westerners.

>

> The meaning the teacher gave was like this: Upa(very close) + ni

> (completely/ without any doubt) + shad (path/removal/gradual destruction).

> ie, upanishad is one which when held very close to us(inside us) without

> any doubt will show you the Path to moksha / will Remove all your

> ignorance / Gradually sets you free from your karma-phala which will

> result in cessation of re-births.

>

> I dont rememer it very clearly. Learned members, please advise.

>

> Om

> ranjeet

>

>

>

>

 

>

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

> Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

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>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin, K Kathirasan NCS <kkathir@n...>

wrote:

> Namaste Ranjeetji

>

> If I am not wrong the meaning of the 'Upanishad' as told by the

spiritual

> teacher is found in the Upadesha Sahasri of Adi Shankara.

 

Namaste,

 

Shankara has defined the word upanishad in sveral ways:

 

Upadeshasahasri (padyabandhaH 1:26)

 

##US-P01.026ab ## saderupanipUrvasya kvipi copaniShad bhavet |

##US-P01.026cd ## mandIkaraNabhAvAc ca garbhAdeH shAtanAt tathA ||

 

"The word 'Upanishad" is derived from the root 'sad', prefixed by 2

particles, 'Upa' and 'ni' and followed by the suffix 'Kvip'. So, that

which loosens the bondage of birth, (old age), etc., (and enables a

man to approach Brahman) and that which destroys birth, (death),

etc., is called Upanishad." [tr. by Sw. Jagadananda].

 

The same definition is given in Brihadaranyaka Upan. Bhashya,

Introduction.

 

In Taittiriya Upan. Bhashya: 1:3:1, it is used in the snse

of 'esoteric meditation' (tr. Sw. Gambhirananda) [saMhitAyAH

upaniShat]

 

Again, in Taitt. Bhasya: 1:11:4, he defines it as secret of the

vedas, ie the meaning [eShA vedopaniShat vedarahasyam vedArtha

ityetat].

 

Also, Taitt. Bhasya, 2:9:1,(ityupaniShat) he defines it as 'secret

instruction', [sarvAbhyaH vidyAbhyaH paramarahasyaM darshitam

ityarthaH paraM shreyaH asyAM niShaNNamiti]; "... the most secret of

all knowledge has been revealed; for in it is ingrained the highest

consummation].

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sunderji,

 

Thank you for the detailed explaination.

 

Om

ranjeet

-

Sunder Hattangadi

 

Namaste,

 

Shankara has defined the word upanishad in sveral ways:

 

Upadeshasahasri (padyabandhaH 1:26)

 

##US-P01.026ab ## saderupanipUrvasya kvipi copaniShad bhavet |

##US-P01.026cd ## mandIkaraNabhAvAc ca garbhAdeH shAtanAt tathA ||

 

"The word 'Upanishad" is derived from the root 'sad', prefixed by 2

particles, 'Upa' and 'ni' and followed by the suffix 'Kvip'. So, that

which loosens the bondage of birth, (old age), etc., (and enables a

man to approach Brahman) and that which destroys birth, (death),

etc., is called Upanishad." [tr. by Sw. Jagadananda].

 

The same definition is given in Brihadaranyaka Upan. Bhashya,

Introduction.

 

In Taittiriya Upan. Bhashya: 1:3:1, it is used in the snse

of 'esoteric meditation' (tr. Sw. Gambhirananda) [saMhitAyAH

upaniShat]

 

Again, in Taitt. Bhasya: 1:11:4, he defines it as secret of the

vedas, ie the meaning [eShA vedopaniShat vedarahasyam vedArtha

ityetat].

 

Also, Taitt. Bhasya, 2:9:1,(ityupaniShat) he defines it as 'secret

instruction', [sarvAbhyaH vidyAbhyaH paramarahasyaM darshitam

ityarthaH paraM shreyaH asyAM niShaNNamiti]; "... the most secret of

all knowledge has been revealed; for in it is ingrained the highest

consummation].

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder