Spiritual growth: a contribution

[Guest guest]

Namaste!

 

Sri Ram suggests 'spiritual growth' as this month's topic. I

agree that this is a great and relevant topic that should not become

too tediously scholarly. Let's give it a try.

 

I would like to offer the following initial simple

observations, based on my experience.

 

First, let me say that I am attracted to Advaita and similar

Indian traditions for two basic reasons: (1) the philosophy and

intuition appeal to me over mere dogma and faith; (2) my amateurish

attempts at meditation and sadhana (practice) have produced

significant benefits.

 

It is number (2) that I would like to emphasize: the benefits

of meditation and sadhana. I am by no means an expert at meditation.

All I do is a simple Pranayama (breathing exercise) where I sit

quietly for a while and try to remain 'mindful' of my breath. I do

not even try hard to stop thoughts; I just try to gently let them go

when they come. To tell the truth, I actually learned this from a

Buddhist monk a long time ago, but I feel it is OK to incorporate it

into an overall sadhana with Advaita as the philosophical core.

 

What have been the results? Realization? Certainly not.

But I can say this. I am much calmer and happier than I used to be.

Depression and unhappiness used to be a constant problem, but that

seems to have completely disappeared. I just get a little annoyed

and irritable sometimes. Surely this is a result of several years of

casual but daily meditation, as the previous problems had plagued me

my whole life and caused me much grief.

 

But there is a further Advaitin slant. One of the most

useful things I learned from a fellow Advaitin was not to get

'engrossed' in things. I think that the word 'engrossed' is

exceptionally well chosen. It is the same as detachment but is a bit

more suggestive. I consciously try to remain detached during my

waking hours, avoiding identification with body, mind and problems

as much as I can. (Seeing everything as one uniform homogeneous

consciousness helps a lot.) Not always easy, but before I didn't

even try. Instead it was always: Why me? Poor me? It's everybody

else's fault. This is a rotten world. Etc.

 

These are the two prongs of my simple sadhana: casual

amateurish meditation and a casual relaxed attempt not to get

engrossed in maya. No fireworks yet. No enlightenment. But a lot

less depression, anger, despair, metal disturbance, etc.

 

You might say that this is just basic spiritual hygiene. I

would answer by saying that basic spiritual hygiene is a crucial

first step. The world would be a lot less crazy if people just took

this first step.

 

Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Benjamin:

 

I am also of the opinion that Spiritual growth or maturity doesnot

require a seeker to be a scholar or a philosopher. Just like the

blooming flowers, the spiritual seeker also attains the maturity. The

blooming of flowers requires the right environmental conditions which

include watering of plant (rainfall or other irrigation facility),

plant free from diseases and appropriate plant growth and sunlight.

When the plant gets proper care (either naturally or with external

efforts), the blooming of flowers also happens! But certainly

blooming of flowers is never accidental!

 

Similarly spiritual seekers need to shape up with the right

environment such as participation in Satsangh, learn to enjoy life

without attachments to objects of pleasure and take time for

contemplation (atmavichara). Spiritual growth begins from the

childhood and continues to adulthood but the velocity of the growth

varies from person to person. Even in our gardens, we observe some

plants bloom lot more than other plants and most of the time we will

be left with no explanations!

 

One of the best ways to understand spiritual maturity, is through

reading some quotations such as the following:

 

The function of wisdom is to discriminate between good and evil.

(Cicero )

 

Such is the nature of men, that howsoever they may acknowledge many

others to be more witty, or more eloquent, or more learned; yet they

will hardly believe there be many so wise as themselves.

(Thomas Hobbes)

 

We have no words for speaking of wisdom to the stupid. He who

understands the wise is wise already.

(G. C. Lichtenberg)

 

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom; the music is nothing if the

audience is deaf.

(Walter Lippmann)

 

I do know of these; That therefore only are reputed wise; For saying

nothing. (William Shakespeare)

 

So wise so young, they say, do never live long.

(William Shakespeare)

 

Well I am certainly wiser than this man. It is only too likely that

neither of us has any knowledge to boast of; but he thinks that he

knows something which he does not know, whereas I am quite conscious

of my ignorance. At any rate it seems that I am wiser than he is to

this small extent, that I do not think that I know what I do not

know. (Socrates)

 

There is this difference between happiness and wisdom: he that thinks

himself the happiest man, really is so; but he that thinks himself

the wisest, is generally the greatest fool.

(Charles Caleb Colton)

 

Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.

(Andre Gide)

 

Science is organized knowledge. Wisdom is organized life.

(Immanuel Kant)

 

Listen to the Exhortation of the Dawn!

Look to this Day!

For it is Life, the very Life of Life.

In its brief course lie all the

Verities and Realities of your Existence.

The Bliss of Growth,

The Glory of Action,

The Splendor of Beauty;

For Yesterday is but a Dream,

And To-morrow is only a Vision;

But To-day well lived makes

Every Yesterday a Dream of Happiness,

And every Tomorrow a Vision of Hope.

Look well therefore to this Day!

Such is the Salutation of the Dawn!

(Kalidasa)

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

advaitin, Benjamin Root <orion777ben>

wrote:

> ....

> You might say that this is just basic spiritual hygiene. I

> would answer by saying that basic spiritual hygiene is a crucial

> first step. The world would be a lot less crazy if people just

> took this first step.

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

Here is a beautiful quotation from Mark Twain on Spiritual Growth:

When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could

hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-

one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven

years.

 

Martin Fischer's quotation on Wisdom:

Knowledge is a process of piling up facts; wisdom lies in their

simplification.

 

Mahatma Gandhi on Wisdom:

It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be

reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err

 

Robert Green Ingersoll on Common Sense:

It is a thousand times better to have common sense without education

than to have education without common sense.

 

Pierre Abelard on Truth:

The beginning of wisdom is found in doubting; by doubting we come to

the question, and by seeking we may come upon the truth.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...>

wrote:

> Here is a beautiful quotation

 

 

Namaste,

 

Spiritual growth may also comprise the confirmation in one's

personal experience of the sayings in the scriptures and of sages:

 

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all

these things shall be added unto you" (Matt. 6:33),

 

"Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down,

and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your

bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be

measured to you again." (Luke 6:38)

 

"He who abandons the commandments of the scriptures and and lives as

his desires prompt him, he attains neither spiritual perfection, nor

worldly happiness, nor liberation." (Gita 16:23)

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Ram!

>But To-day well lived makes

>Every Yesterday a Dream of Happiness,

>And every Tomorrow a Vision of Hope.

>Look well therefore to this Day!

>Such is the Salutation of the Dawn!

>(Kalidasa)

 

I have noticed that when my meditation goes particularly well, so

that a feeling of peace results, then every thing seems fine and

perfect as it is. Even past unhappiness somehow seems more mellow in

the new light. Yes, even the past can be 'transmogrified' into

something beautiful when consciousness is purified.

 

I believe that everything that 'happens' must happen. If we can just

surrender, then it all becomes a peaceful illusion. And even somehow

perfect, just as it is. It is just an unreal melodrama unfolding,

and the spectators never really hate even the bad characters in a

film.

 

You might ask: what about the horrible moments (e.g. nuclear attack)?

Who knows how we will experience that? It may shock us into some

kind of realization. Often extreme situations jolt the mind into a

wise, expansive and dreamlike state. I suspect that many warriors

have experienced Moksha as they fell on the battlefield. (I mean the

spiritually-minded ones, not the vicious animals.) The shock of

being slain may be the greatest liberator, enabling one to realize in

a flash that 'I am not the body ... I am Pure Consciousness.'

 

But I still do dislike people who seem perpetually angry. That gets

under my skin!

 

Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

--- Benjamin Root <orion777ben wrote:

>

> But I still do dislike people who seem perpetually angry. That gets

> under my skin!

>

> Om!

> Benjamin

>

 

Benjamin - are you becoming perpetually angry since it is getting under

your skin! There may be another Benjamin who may be putting you under

the category of those 'people'.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

=====

What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift

to Him - Swami Chinmayananda.

 

 

 

Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook.

http://calendar.

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

Here is an Interesting Website discussing the importance of Spiritual

Growth: URL: http://www.spiritualgrowth.com/

 

The site contains many interesting articles focusing on the subject

matter of Spiritual growth.

 

The site opens with a quotation from Paramahansa Yogananda:

 

"You must not let your life run in the ordinary way; do something

that nobody else has done, something that will dazzle the world. Show

that God's creative principle works in you."

 

Enjoy!

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sadanandaji:

>> But I still do dislike people who seem perpetually angry.

>> That gets under my skin!

>

>Benjamin - are you becoming perpetually angry since it

>is getting under your skin! There may be another Benjamin

>who may be putting you under the category of those 'people'.

 

You're right. In principle, we should never get angry.

 

But my statement was in the context of my discussion of the benefits

of the peace that meditation can bring. Then I thought back over my

life to people who were difficult to live with. (Sorry, but I'm a

human being with a past!) So for the sake of honesty, I added that

last comment about how difficult it is even for a saint to remain a

saint when he has to live under the same roof with someone who is

very unpleasant.

 

There is no point being blissful about Advaita if you lose your

temper when someone steps on your toe. Especially if they do it

again and again. Not to mention guns, bombs and body parts scattered

everywhere.

 

Ramana is praised for sacrificing all privacy and being available to

people 24/7 (or almost). This was truly admirable. I think I would

have been unable to endure it. However, he did enjoy one major

luxury: everyone treated him with respect.

 

Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

-

>

> Ramana is praised for sacrificing all privacy and being available to

> people 24/7 (or almost). This was truly admirable. I think I would

> have been unable to endure it. However, he did enjoy one major

> luxury: everyone treated him with respect.

>

> Om!

> Benjamin

>

 

Benjamin - I donot know if you know the story of theifs. Some peaple

broke into the ashram trying to steal whatever they could get. When

they say Bhagavan Ramana they give him couple of blows so that they can

do their job effectively. Bhagawan quipped next day that they also

received 'some puja' by the thiefs.

 

With that attitude we can say we can also enjoy all the respect (puuja)

that people offer if we consider whatever they give is only a version of

respect! I am aware that saying that is eassy but doing it is hard. That

makes one a mahaatma. But mahaatma's are made not born, since you do

not believe in avataara-s.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

=====

What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift

to Him - Swami Chinmayananda.

 

 

 

Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook.

http://calendar.

[Guest guest]

Albert Einstein on consciousness

A human being is a part of the whole, called by us Universe, a part

limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and

feelings as something separated from the rest-a kind of optical

delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison,

restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few

persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free from this prison by

widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and

the whole nature in its beauty.

 

Marianne Williamson on love (In the book A return to Love)

Love is what we are born with. Fear is what we learn. The spiritual

journey is the unlearning of fear and prejudices and the acceptance

of love back in our hearts. Love is the essential reality and our

purpose on earth. To be consciously aware of it, to experience love

in ourselves and others, is the meaning of life. Meaning does not lie

in things. Meaning lies in us. When we attach value to things that

aren't love - the money, the car, the house, the prestige - we are

loving things that can't love us back. We are searching for meaning

in the meaningless. Money, of itself, means nothing. Material things,

of themselves, mean nothing. It's not that they are bad. It's just

that they're nothing.

[Guest guest]

'Life Itself Does Not Die' (Timeless wisdom from the Chandoga

Upanishad )

 

Patrick Olivelle, translator

'Now, take the bees, son. They prepare the honey by gathering nectar

from a variety of trees and by reducing that nectar to a homogeneous

whole. In that state the nectar from each different tree is not able

to differentiate: "I am the nectar of that tree", and "I am the

nectar of this tree". In exactly the same way, son, when all these

creatures merge into the existent." No matter what they are in this

world--whether it is a tiger, a lion, a wolf, a boar, a worm, a moth,

a gnat, or a mosquito--they all merger into that.

'The finest essence here-that constitutes the self of this whole

world; that is the truth; that is the self (atman). And that's how

you are, Svetaketu.'

 

'Sir, teach me more.'

 

'Very well, son.

Now, take these rivers, son. The easterly ones flow towards the east,

and the westerly ones flow towards the west. From the ocean, they

merge into the very ocean; they become just the ocean. In that state

they are not aware that: "I am that river", and "I am this river". In

exactly the same way, son, when all these creatures reach the

existent, they are not aware that: "We are reaching the existent". No

matter what they are in this world--whether it is a tiger, a lion, a

wolf, a boar, a worm, a moth, a gnat, or a mosquito--they all merge

into that.

 

'The finest essence here--that constitutes the self of this whole

world; that is the truth; that is the self (atman). And that's how

you are, Svetaketu.'

 

'Sir, teach me more.'

 

'Very well, son.

 

'Now, take this huge tree here, son. If someone were to hack it at

the bottom, its living sap would flow. Likewise, if someone were to

hack it in the middle, its living sap would flow; and if someone were

to hack it at the top, its living sap would flow. Pervaded by the

living (jiva) essence (atman), this tree stands here ceaselessly

drinking water and flourishing. When, however, life leaves one of its

branches, that branch withers away. When it leaves a second branch,

that likewise withers away, and when it leaves a third branch, that

also withers away. When it leaves the entire tree, the whole tree

withers away.

 

'In exactly the same way,' he continued, 'know that this, of course,

dies when it is bereft of life; but life itself does not die.

 

'The finest essence here--that constitutes the self of this whole

world; that is the truth; that is the self. And that's how you are,

Svetaketu. '

 

'Sir, teach me more.'

 

'Very well, son.

 

'Bring a banyan fruit.'

 

'Here it is, sir.'

 

'Cut it up.'

 

'What do you see there?'

 

'These quite tiny seeds, sir.'

 

'Now, take one of them and cut it up.'

 

'I've cut one up, sir.'

 

'What do you see there?'

 

'Nothing, sir.'

 

Then he told him: 'This finest essence here, son, that you can't even

see--look how on account of that finest essence this huge banyan tree

stands here.

 

'Believe, my son: the finest essence here-that constitutes the self

of this whole world; that is the truth; that is the self. And that's

how you are, Svetaketu.'

 

'Sir, teach more.'

 

'Very well, son.

 

'Put this chunk of salt in a container of water and come back

tomorrow.' The son did as he was told, and the father said to

him: 'The chunk of salt you put in the water last evening-bring it

here.' He groped for it but could not find it, as it had dissolved

completely.

 

'Now, take a sip from this corner,' said the father. 'How does it

taste?'

 

'Salty.'

 

'Take a sip from the center. How does it taste?'

 

'Salty.'

 

'Take a sip from that corner. How does it taste?'

 

'Salty.'

 

'Throw it out and come back later.' He did as he was told and found

that the salt was always there. The father told him: 'You, of course,

did not see it there, son; it was always right there.

 

'The finest essence here-that constitutes the self of this whole

world; that is the truth; that is the self. And that's how you are,

Svetaketu.'

 

'Sir, teach me more.'

 

'Very well, son.

 

Excerpted from Chandogya Upanishad 6.9-13. Published with permission

of Oxford University Press.

Source: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/25/story_2594.html

[Guest guest]

'The Breathing Behind Breathing' (The Kena Upanisad, an ancient

Hindu scripture, frames eternal questions )

Patrick Olivelle, translator

 

By whom impelled, by whom compelled,

does the mind soar forth?

By whom enjoined does the breath

march on as the first?

By whom is this speech impelled,

with which people speak?

And who is the god that joins

the sight and hearing?

 

That which is the hearing behind hearing,

the thinking behind thinking,

the speech behind speech,

the sight behind sight--

It also the breathing behind breathing--

Freed completely from these,

the wise become immortal,

when they depart from this world.

 

Sight does not reach there;

neither does thinking speech.

We don't know, we can't perceive,

how one would point it out.

 

It is far different from what's known.

And it is farther than the unknown--

so have we heard from men of old,

who have explained it all to us.

 

Which one cannot express by speech,

by which speech itself is expressed--

Learn that that alone is brahman,

and not what they here venerate.

 

Which one cannot grasp with one's mind,

by which, they say, the mind itself is grasped--

Learn that that alone is brahman,

and not what they here venerate.

Which one cannot see with one's sight,

 

Which one cannot see with one's sight,

by which one sees the sight itself--

Learn that that alone is brahman,

and not what they here venerate.

 

Which one cannot hear with one's hearing,

by which hearing itself is heard--

Learn that that alone is brahman,

and not what they here venerate.

 

Which one cannot breathe through breathing,

by which breathing itself is drawn forth--

Learn that that alone is brahman,

and not what they here venerate.

 

The Kena Upanisad, also called the Talavakara Upanisad, falls roughly

into two parts. The first presents brahman as essentially unknowable

and inexpressible. The second shows how the gods and their powers

have proceeded from brahman, here identified as the creator of all.

 

Excerpted from 'The Upanisads,' translated by Patrick Olivelle, 1998.

Reprinted with permission of Oxford University Press.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/25/story_2592_1.html

[Guest guest]

Benajamin Maharaj,

I doubt, at his level, whether the dichotomy had existed and make

himself available to others was there. Who is making himself/herself

available to whom?

Rgds

--Ranga

 

 

Benjamin Root [orion777ben]

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:38 AM

advaitin

Re: Spiritual growth: a contribution

 

 

 

Ramana is praised for sacrificing all privacy and being available to

people 24/7 (or almost). This was truly admirable. I think I would

have been unable to endure it. However, he did enjoy one major

luxury: everyone treated him with respect.

 

Om!

Benjamin

 

 

<http://rd./M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705

075991:HM/A=1564415/R=0/SIG=11t6t7kdo/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mq

so=60164784&partid=3170658>

 

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Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Chakkara Rangarajan"

<crangara@c...> wrote:

> Benajamin Maharaj,

> I doubt, at his level, whether the dichotomy had existed and make

> himself available to others was there. Who is making himself/herself

> available to whom?

> Rgds

> --Ranga

>

>

> Benjamin Root [orion777ben]

> Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:38 AM

> advaitin

> Re: Spiritual growth: a contribution

>

>

>

> Ramana is praised for sacrificing all privacy and being available

to

> people 24/7 (or almost). This was truly admirable. I think I

would

> have been unable to endure it. However, he did enjoy one major

> luxury: everyone treated him with respect.

>

> Om!

> Benjamin

 

Namaste Benji,

 

I doubt respect is relevant to someone without an ego. I have an ego

and I care little for what others think of me. Also in Raman's case

there was nobody home to endure anything......ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Tony O'Clery" <aoclery> wrote:

> advaitin, "Chakkara Rangarajan"

> <crangara@c...> wrote:

 

> I doubt respect is relevant to someone without an ego. I have an

ego

> and I care little for what others think of me. Also in Raman's case

> there was nobody home to endure anything......ONS...Tony.

 

Namaste,

 

One of the measuring rods for spiritual growth is given in the

Gita. Ramji posted this summary [#6856 - 11/28/2000], and it is

worthwhile to repeat it in this thread. Similar descriptions are in

other parts of the Gita for 'yogarudha', 'gunatita', etc.

 

Sthitaprajna or the Perfect Yogi (Summary of Verses 54 to 72)

 

On hearing all this Arjuna said,

The course of conduct you have mapped for me seems to be beyond my

capacity. Not to worry about defeat or victory, not to waste a

thought on the result,-how can one attain such an evenness of temper

and steadfastness in spirit? How does a man with such attainments

behave, and how are we to recognize him?

 

 

The Lord replied,

O king, one who renounces all the cravings which torment the heart

and derives his contentment from within himself is said to be a

sthitaprajna or samadhistha (one stable in spirit). He is unruffled in

adversity and he does not hanker after happiness. Pleasure and pain

are felt through the five senses. Therefore this wise man draws his

senses away from sense objects even as a tortoise draws in his limbs.

The tortoise withdraws into his shell when he apprehends danger. But

in the case of human beings sense objects are ready to attack the

senses at all times; therefore their senses must always be drawn in,

and they should be ever ready to fight against sense objects. This is

the real battle. Some people resort to self-mortification and fasting

as weapons of defense against sense objects.

These measures have their limited use. The senses do not make for

sense objects so long as a man is fasting, but fasting alone does not

destroy his relish for them. On the other hand that relish may be

heightened when the fast is broken, and a man can get rid of it only

with the grace of God. The senses are so powerful that they drag a

man behind them by force if he is not on his guard. Therefore a man

must always keep them under control. This end he can achieve only if

he turns his eyes inward, realizes God Who resides in his heart and

is devoted to Him. One who thus looks upon Me as His goal and

surrenders his all to Me, keeping his senses in control, is a yogi

stable in spirit. On the other hand if a man is not master of his

senses, he is always musing on the objects of sense and conceives an

attachment for them, so that he can hardly think of anything else.

>From this attachment arises desire; and when the desire is thwarted

he gets angry. Anger drives him nearly mad. He cannot understand what

he is about. He thus loses his memory, behaves in a disorderly manner

and comes to an ignoble end. When a mans senses rove at will, he is

like a rudderless ship which is at the mercy of the gale and is

broken to pieces on the rocks. Men should therefore abandon all

desires and restrain their senses, so that these do not indulge in

undesirable activity.

The eyes then will look straight and that too only at holy objects;

the ears will listen to hymns in praise of God or to cries of

distress; hands and feet will be engaged in service. Indeed all the

organs of sense and of action will be employed in helping a man to do

his duty and making him a fit recipient of the grace of God. And once

the grace of God has descended upon him, all his sorrows are at an

end. As snow melts in the sunshine, all pain vanishes when the grace

of God shines upon him and he is said to be stable in spirit. But if

a man is not stable-minded, how can he think good thoughts? Without

good thoughts there is no peace, and without peace there is no

happiness. Where a stable-minded man sees things clear as daylight,

the unstable man distracted by the turmoil of the world is as good as

blind. On the other hand what is pure in the eyes of the worldly wise

looks unclean to and repels the stable-minded man. Rivers

continuously flow into the sea, but the sea remains unmoved; in the

same way all sense objects come to the yogi, but he always remains

calm like the sea. Thus one who abandons all desires, is free from

pride and selfishness and behaves as one apart, finds peace. This is

the condition of a perfect man of God, and he who is established

therein even at the final hour is saved (lit. set free, mukta).

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Since the date of my return to the U.S. is nearing I thought I

would update myself with what is going on in the advaitin. I

first read all the recent postings on ‘Spiritual Growth’

initiated by Benjaminji. Oh, What a bundle of beautiful and

relevant quotations, Ram! And what a timely reminder from the

Chandogya, by Sunderji.

 

This is Spiritual Growth. If someone totally new to the field

asks for a definition of Spiritual Growth, it is this. To be

engrossed (thanks to Benjamin for bringing in the usage of this

right word in this discussion) in the sayings of great men and

spiritual masters and simultaneously ‘not-to-be-engrossed’ in

mundane ephemeral materialistic matters that may matter to this

life but definitely not to the life beyond.

 

To be engaged in such discussions is the index of spiritual

growth. At the same time not to be engrossed in the

knitty-gritty questions of scholarship to the extent that ‘one

cannot stand it’ or to the extent that a disagreement leads to

displeasure, displeasure leads to irritation and irritation to

anger, -- which, however, is the descending chain of ‘snakes and

ladders’ in the play of Spiritual Growth.

 

‘tat chintanam tat kathanam anyonyam tat prabodhanam’ meaning,

‘Thinking of that, talking about that, and mutually reminding

one another of that’.

 

This is the recipe for Spiritual Growth according to Laghu Vakya

Vritti , also quoted as such by the author of Pancadashi. .

 

If one analyses the ordinary individual’s daily life, a lion’s

share – something as much as 90 per cent (this itself is a

liberally low estimate).—is spent (1) in mundane discussions

bearing on the daily bread and butter, or with questions of

finance, individual or public, or (2) with weeping and wailing

over the miseries of the past, dilemmas of the present, and

hopelessness of the future or (3) with criticisms of friends and

foes, relatives and non-relatives, leaders and the led.

 

The index of Spiritual Growth is the amount of reduction that we

can bring to this 90 per cent.

 

PranAms to all advaitins.

Profvk

 

 

 

=====

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/

You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and

Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site.

 

 

 

Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook.

http://calendar.

[Guest guest]

namaste.

 

I think we can devise ourselves some simple tests to know

whether we are growing spiritually. Some questions which we

can ask ourselves objectively:

 

1. Are we still at the mercy of the six great enemies kAma

(desire), krodha (anger), lobha (miserliness), moha (passion),

mada (pride), and mAtsarya (jealousy) ? Or, have we noticed

improvement in ourselves in tackling these wretched enemies ?

 

2. All these six great enemies have their root in desire. Have

our desires subsided ?

 

3. shamam, damam deal with control of our inner and outer sense

organs. Are our senses and particularly the manas (mind)

wandering off as before, or are we seeing a mind which is

much more tame ?

 

4. Is our ego keeping continuously rising its head at every

opportunity ? Here I mean by ego, not only the AtmAbhimAnam

(the meaning of ego in common english usage) but also the

ego, that I am the doer and I am the enjoyer concept. Has

that feeling subsided compared to previous years ?

 

5. Is there santuShTi (the correct translation of the word

santuShTi is internal contentment) in us ? Without that

internal contentment, we cannot elevate ourselves spiritually.

Do we have that santuShTi ?

 

6. Spiritual growth is increasing the purity of our heart so that

jnAnam can dawn on us without obstacles and settle in us.

A good indicator of the pure heart are the sat-guNA-s like

ahimsa (non-violence), satyam (truth), karuNa (compassion),

etc. Have we seen a positive increase in these sat-guNA-s in us?

 

7. Along with spiritual growth, there will be an increase in the

sAttwicity of the human. Have we seen this in ourselves ?

 

8. Another indicator of spiritual growth is the liking for

sat-sAngatyam. Although sat-sAngatyam can be interpreted

as company of the wise, it can also be seen as comfortable

with oneself [sat is existence nature of brahman, and

sAngatyam is being comfortable with that SELF]. Are we

comfortable with ourselves, or is our mind comfortable

with itself, without any fluctuations ?

 

 

We can see such simple tests as indicators of our spiritual

growth or otherwise. If we answer yes to most of those questions,

we can say that we are growing spiritually.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

[Guest guest]

namaste. This is in response to shri Min and partly to shri

Mark Evers' perspecives on spiritual growth.

 

yes, the spirituality grows with increase in age and, I think,

there is reason for it. In the Hindu culture, it is said that

people turn their attention towards God after age fifty. This

may be true in other cultures as well. By age fifty, people

have seen the world, and have experienced all materialistic

and sensual pleasures; they get tired of it, find no great

ever-lasting joy in them, and turn their attention to something

higher. So, yes, there is usually spirituality growth with

increase in age.

 

What we are trying to understand here is: are we doing proper

sAdhana (self-effort) so that our heart is getting purer

because of sAdhana ?

 

During the sAdhana stage of our spiritual life (which will

span life afer life for many lives), my feeling is that we

should be conscious of the six great enemies and make a

deliberate and conscious effort to keep these enemies at bay.

I agree that to test whether there is a quantitative spiritual

growth is not possible, not good, and may be egoistic, yet,

to know who the enemies are that are constantly on the prowl

and to ward off these enemies deliberately is, in my view,

a useful exercise for a sAdhaka.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...>

wrote:

>

>

> namaste.

>

> I think we can devise ourselves some simple tests to know

> whether we are growing spiritually. Some questions which we

> can ask ourselves objectively:

>

> 1. Are we still at the mercy of the six great enemies kAma

> (desire), krodha (anger), lobha (miserliness), moha (passion),

> mada (pride), and mAtsarya (jealousy) ? Or, have we noticed

> improvement in ourselves in tackling these wretched enemies ?

>

> 2. All these six great enemies have their root in desire. Have

> our desires subsided ?

>

> 3. shamam, damam deal with control of our inner and outer sense

> organs. Are our senses and particularly the manas (mind)

> wandering off as before, or are we seeing a mind which is

> much more tame ?

>

Namaste.

 

When I read the above I am reminded of Heisenberg's uncertainity

principle in Quantum Physics. Loosely put: The process of observing

the object disturbs the object itself!. Likewise subjecting oneself

to complicated measures such as above may only disturb one's

progress,

 

I doubt a Spiritual Seeker has to subject himself to long,

complicated tests. Whether one is experiencing increasing peace and

freedom of thoughts is a good measure of progress. I will post the

relevant scripture once I remember it.

 

regards

Sundar Rajan

[Guest guest]

Namaste. This is a point well taken, and I an completely agree.

 

I only have one quibble: since the Altman is universally in all of us, at

whatever perceived level, what culture we are a part of should not matter.

 

Regards,

Min

 

 

Gummuluru Murthy [gmurthy]

Saturday, June 14, 2003 5:54 AM

advaitin

Re: Re: Spiritual growth: a contribution

 

 

 

namaste. This is in response to shri Min and partly to shri

Mark Evers' perspecives on spiritual growth.

 

yes, the spirituality grows with increase in age and, I think,

there is reason for it. In the Hindu culture, it is said that

people turn their attention towards God after age fifty. This

may be true in other cultures as well. By age fifty, people

have seen the world, and have experienced all materialistic

and sensual pleasures; they get tired of it, find no great

ever-lasting joy in them, and turn their attention to something

higher. So, yes, there is usually spirituality growth with

increase in age.

 

What we are trying to understand here is: are we doing proper

sAdhana (self-effort) so that our heart is getting purer

because of sAdhana ?

 

During the sAdhana stage of our spiritual life (which will

span life afer life for many lives), my feeling is that we

should be conscious of the six great enemies and make a

deliberate and conscious effort to keep these enemies at bay.

I agree that to test whether there is a quantitative spiritual

growth is not possible, not good, and may be egoistic, yet,

to know who the enemies are that are constantly on the prowl

and to ward off these enemies deliberately is, in my view,

a useful exercise for a sAdhaka.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

Atman and Brahman.

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Sundar Rajanji,

 

Though Murthyji himself called his suggestions as tests, I personally took them

as a simple summary of 'means' to Spiritual Growth. Peace and Tranquility are

the ultimate tests which if fulfilled you are home; but if you are not there

where do you go?. That's where Murthyji 'capsule' is extremely useful. Regards,

 

Venkat

 

 

Murthyji:

> I think we can devise ourselves some simple tests to know

> whether we are growing spiritually. Some questions which we can ask ourselves

objectively:

Likewise subjecting oneself

to complicated measures such as above may only disturb one's

progress,

 

Sundar Rajanji

I doubt a Spiritual Seeker has to subject himself to long,

complicated tests. Whether one is experiencing increasing peace and

freedom of thoughts is a good measure of progress. I will post the

relevant scripture once I remember it.

 

regards

Sundar Rajan

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

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To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

Some more thoughts on Spiritualism:

 

What we call as 'spiritual maturity' is nothing but a change in our

attitude in dealing with our friends and foes in day to day life.

Most of the problems occur because we do not want to admit our

shortcomings and/or not willing to accept the facts of life. We do

not accept the fact that we have no control over the events that

happen in our life and assume authority and try to resist or control

such events. The spiritual maturity is an understanding of the facts

of life and learn to cope up with those facts of life. For example,

we often presume that someone around us possesses an intolerable

temper or bad manners or an unkind attitude. Such beliefs entertain

avoidable sufferings and inject evil thoughts and inappropriate

judgement of others. Those who cultivate spiritual attitude of the

world would expand their self-image beyond the physical beings and

beyond mental limitations. Those with materialistic attitude would

isolate their existence from the rest of world and assume that all

problems are created by the society dominated by a group with some

undesired characteristics. Spiritualistic attitude unifies the

society with common goals and for universal happiness. Materialistic

attitude divides the society into fragments with individual agenda

jeopardizing the peace and happiness of the society.

 

Spiritualism is the holistic way of thinking and it liberates those

with the spiritual attitude from meanness. A spiritual person does

not consider himself/herself only as a person belonging to the

universal family. Such persons want to strive for the happiness of

the family. The materialistic person on the other hand considers

himself (herself) as a separate entity and does not recognize the

existence of others. Spiritual way of thinking will change the

attitude entirely and establish friendly relationship with the world

instead of one of hostility as envisaged by materialism or

secularism. Spiritualism can be illustrated by looking back the

lives of the ancient Hindu sages and saints. Great scientists have

also exhibited spiritual attitude in their life and their goal was

always universal welfare and happiness.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

namaste shri Dennis and Mark, and all,

 

Your observations are well taken and are quite correct. Yet,

I am wondering how would one know (for oneself, not for others

to know) that sAdhana one is following is the right one. How

can one know for oneself that one is inching forward in terms

of purity of heart. There have to be some indicators one should

be looking for oneself, not daily or annual assessments, but

a general progression one feels within oneself. Or, are you saying

that there is no need for such indicators and that the sAdhana

one is following is always the right one ?

 

As examples:

(i) Is one's reaction of anger to an event the same as what it

was a few years ago ?

(ii) Is there more contentment in the heart now or is there

more distress ?

(iii) Is the ego problem no longer there now compared to what it

was before ?

 

shri shankara says in VivekacUDAmaNi that only a jIvanmukta

knows whether he/she is a jIvanmukta; others can only guess.

Simlarly, only the individual person knows for sure whether

his/her sAdhana is progressing well enough so that he/she is

purer in the heart.

 

Yet, there is a difference in the two cases of jIvanmukta and

the sAdhaka. For the jIvanmukta, there is no continuity from

vyavahArika to paramArtha. The sAdhaka is still in vyavahArika

and hence, there is continuity of thought. Hence, sAdhaka is in

a position to look for indications within him/herself whether

cittashuddhi is improving.

 

Without indicators of cittashuddhi, how would any one say that

the spiritual sAdhana one is doing is the appropriate one ?

Or in terms of shri Poonja's words quoted by Dennis: how do

you know you are getting smaller and smaller ?

I am sorry for being persistent on this question.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

--

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...>

wrote:

>

>

>

> As examples:

> (i) Is one's reaction of anger to an event the same as what it

> was a few years ago ?

> (ii) Is there more contentment in the heart now or is there

> more distress ?

> (iii) Is the ego problem no longer there now compared to what it

> was before ?

>

>

> Without indicators of cittashuddhi, how would any one say that

> the spiritual sAdhana one is doing is the appropriate one ?

> Or in terms of shri Poonja's words quoted by Dennis: how do

> you know you are getting smaller and smaller ?

> I am sorry for being persistent on this question.

>

>

> Regards

> Gummuluru Murthy

 

Namaste,

 

Yes purification of the Buddhi is necessary in allowing us to see our

own progress and raise our level of awareness.

 

I would ask myself about these negative qualities and if I can

control them better, and positively am I more aware, do I eat meat

etc etc.

 

It is a matter of disengaging from the control of the mind, observing

so to speak. Seeing our own vasanasa and samskaras and being aware of

them, not giving in to 'temptation' in other parlance.

 

How much more detached am I becoming and how much more do I perceive

the world as an illusion.

 

How is my meditation progressing, is it a relief or is it

progress?.......ONS....Tony.

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

My two cents worth.

 

Leave everything at His/Her feet and act in a manner you consider

most appropriate to whatever dharmic situation you are in. There is

then no forward or backward, which are relevant only to 'doers'.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

 

________

 

 

advaitin, Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...>

wrote:

Yet,

> I am wondering how would one know (for oneself, not for others

> to know) that sAdhana one is following is the right one. How

> can one know for oneself that one is inching forward in terms

> of purity of heart.