Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Namaste Sri Nair: Isn't it how we define "Swadharma!" regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair> wrote: > Namaste. > > My two cents worth. > > Leave everything at His/Her feet and act in a manner you consider > most appropriate to whatever dharmic situation you are in. There is > then no forward or backward, which are relevant only to 'doers'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Gummuluru Murthy wrote: > namaste shri Dennis and Mark, and all, > > Your observations are well taken and are quite correct. Yet, > I am wondering how would one know (for oneself, not for others > to know) that sAdhana one is following is the right one. How > can one know for oneself that one is inching forward in terms > of purity of heart. There have to be some indicators one should > be looking for oneself, not daily or annual assessments, but > a general progression one feels within oneself. Or, are you saying > that there is no need for such indicators and that the sAdhana > one is following is always the right one ? > > ..... > > Without indicators of cittashuddhi, how would any one say that > the spiritual sAdhana one is doing is the appropriate one ? > Or in terms of shri Poonja's words quoted by Dennis: how do > you know you are getting smaller and smaller ? > I am sorry for being persistent on this question. > > > Regards > Gummuluru Murthy Namaste Sri Gummuluru Murthy, You have every right to be persistent. I will do my best to respond. This is most difficult to put into words. First, I must say that my own indicators are "internal" and not mental or rational. I feel within (in "my heart") that I am following the track that I need to follow. This is hard to describe. The sense is not really that I am "on track" versus not "on track" (right or wrong). Rather, the sense is that there is only one track to be on. There is no choice. For me, dealing with agitation has been a key element to this track. When I feel it, I feel it deeply, expressing it as fully as I am able, without hurting others. I ask: What underlies this agitation? Who is agitated? Why am I avoiding this person, or that situation? Why am I feeling angry or depressed? What does it indicate about my beliefs that I have not yet come to grips with? However, the pursuit of these questions is not mental. I just let them sit. There is something particularly brutal about this process. At first, part of me is usually shocked or dismayed about where it leads. It is a process that cannot be forced. If I try to think about it actively, I find that my mind goes into overdrive and feels that it "understands" what is going on. Then I know for sure, deep down, that I am fooling myself. Instead I surrender my mind -- let it shut down -- which allows the insights emerge when they are ready to do so. This is a most mysterious process. Its virtues are patience, trust, and humility (three of my major lessons). If called on to specify whether progress is being made, I find myself holding back. I am still strongly conditioned to believe the general notion that "progress leads to a goal." In looking for progress my mind tends to take over, defining and measuring the steps of progress. Yet I have no rational understanding of the goal, so how can I define what kind of progress leads to this goal? All I can do is to look within, moment to moment. Here I find that this is all a sacred mystery, that I need to move aside and let it happen -- to allow its intelligence to guide me. You could say I put it all in God's hands. Best regards, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 When I posted the quotation from Sri Poonja, I realised that this might imply disagreement with Sri Murthy's initial post on the subject. On the contrary, I was going to comment on what an excellent summary of the key elements signifying 'progress' this was. However, I confess that I am, of late, very ambivalent about the whole business. On the one hand, of course, it is obvious that purification etc., along the lines of Shankara's chatuShTaya sampatti is a prerequisite for 'realisation' and, for this, the monitoring of one's tendency towards experiencing anger, desire etc. must be relevant for observing 'progress'. On the other hand, though, there is the matter of all of these quotation marks! It is clearly the ego-mind that is the obstacle. Once this has gone what remains is the only reality. This was the purport of posting the quote - the ego gets smaller and smaller until it disappears at the moment of 'enlightenment'. The problems seem to be twofold. Firstly it is the ego that wants realisation in the first place (after all, the Self is already realised). Secondly, we cannot choose to do anything anyway (do not act or enjoy etc.) - but then I do not want to reopen that discussion! What is, is. What appears to be is only an appearance resulting from our ignorance. All notions of paths and spiritual progress are part of the dream too. It is all ultimately pointless. It does seem that the best that can be done is to have a total intellectual appreciation of all of this and then stop worrying about it. Well, perhaps that will provoke a few passions?! Best wishes, Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Namaste! Mark Evers wrote: >For me, dealing with agitation has been a key element >to this track. When I feel it, I feel it deeply, expressing >it as fully as I am able, without hurting others. I ask: >What underlies this agitation? Who is agitated? Why am I >avoiding this person, or that situation? Why am I feeling >angry or depressed? What does it indicate about my beliefs >that I have not yet come to grips with? However, the pursuit >of these questions is not mental. I just let them sit. Often simply watching our emotional condition, rather than reacting blindly to it or become engrossed in it, goes a long way towards neutralizing the negative effects. I also feel that it helps if we avoid debilitating feelings of guilt, as long as we are honest about ourselves. I am not enthusiastic about the notion of 'sin', but I am enthusiastic about the notions of 'realization' and 'truth'. A Zen monk once told me something simple but profound. When we experience a pain or mental agitation, we should 'just be with it'. Do not react, but do not sweep it under the rug either. Do not feel guilt, but do not avoid the truth either. Just see things as they are, and the vasanas will gradually dissolve. All reactions and judgements such as guilt, aversion, despair simply stimulate the mind and ego-sense which we are trying to eliminate. This reinforces the vasanas. If we can understand that our problems are all mind-created, then quieting the mind will cause the problems to disappear. Of course, this may be easier with emotional pain than physical pain (though some may disagree and consider emotion the greater obstacle). Om! Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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