Guest guest Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Namaste Sri Ram! >For example, we often presume that someone around us >possesses an intolerable temper or bad manners or an >unkind attitude. Such beliefs entertain avoidable >sufferings and inject evil thoughts and inappropriate >judgement of others. Those who cultivate spiritual >attitude of the world would expand their self-image >beyond the physical beings and beyond mental limitations. Your sentiments are very noble, but I must add a qualification. I believe that many people create misery for themselves and others through a dishonest and irresponsible attitude. With those people, there will simply be irreconcilable differences. Therefore, I believe that we are justified in seeking the company of those who are approximately at our spiritual level and avoiding the company of those who are far beneath it. (If we are lucky, we may even be allowed to enjoy the company of those who are far more spiritually advanced, at least for brief intervals.) Above all a bad marriage should be avoided at all costs, as it creates misery for the parents and, more importantly, for the innocent children. (I have never been married, so I am not speaking from personal bitterness. I am merely alarmed by the divorce rate in the modern world.) The greatest cause of a bad marriage is being blinded by desire in the choice of a mate, whether it is to acquire pleasure, money, social status, or whatever. That is why I believe that desires should be controlled: not because kama is inherently 'bad' but because it can blind our judgement. Therefore, I think that societies that display a conservative and family oriented attitude towards relations between the sexes demonstrate considerable wisdom. At the same time, I don't think there should be rigid rules, except when it comes to physical pressure of any kind. People must be allowed to make honest mistakes and learn. A Taliban or fundamentalist society is abhorrent to anyone who is not a robot. Such matters are best taken care of, not by rigid rules, but by developing the spirituality and sensitivity that seeks a relationship based on genuine love and respect and not desire. And one should be prepared to abandon the joys of marriage if one is unsuitable or cannot find a suitable mate. A lonely but dignified and peaceful life is far preferable to the misery of a bad marriage. One can at least practice one's sadhana in peace. The high divorce rate in the West suggests considerable spiritual immaturity, and I'm not sure how things are in India. I suspect they are becoming more Americanized even as we speak. The onslaught of materialism is too seductive for mere mortals to resist! Om! Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Namaste Sri Benjamin: I appreciate your concerns and they are quite valid. The right perspective of spiritualism does take appropriate choices and steps to avoid the unpleasantness described by you. To develop the spiritual attitude of life, one should seek the company of spiritual persons either at their or at a higher than their level of spiritual maturity. The basic question that we should ask ourselves is - what do we expect from a friend or wife if want them to be a part of our company? Being spiritual implies that we see both sides of the coin instead of looking at one side. By being spiritual, we understand the value of having a good friend and a good wife and we are obligated to take efforts to avoid 'creating' a bad friend or a bad wife! Spiritual attitude does require more responsibility and sacrifices than just seeking transient material comforts and temporary happiness. In simple terms, it means that a spiritual person instead of jumping into any quick solution, will look for a long-term solution that can bring sustained happiness. With such an attitude, the spiritual person is likely to take appropriate time and efforts while in choosing a friend or wife. The choice of a good friend never happens as a lucky event but only with sustained efforts from all concerned parties. This necessarily imply that both the parties possess the spiritual attitude that enable them to make transient sacrifices to sustain their happiness. Gita describes such a spiritual person as 'Satvik.' Gita recognizes that even a Satvik person is still a level lower than the perfect yogi. (Gita describes a perfect yogi in chapter 2, Verses 55 to 72). The Gita's path of spirituality is to create first a good person with the Satvik virtues(Gita spells out the qualities of Satvik, Rajastik and Tamasik persons in chapters 14 to 18). But Gita's requirement for the ultimate level of spiritual maturity specifies the spiritual person to be free from all Gunas including Satvik and to attain Nirguna. The quotation of Poonja that Sri Dennis posted in a recent post may become relevant at this state of spiritual maturity: "You are ripe for enlightenment when you want nothing else. In order to be born as a baby you have to spend 9 months getting bigger and bigger. For enlightenment you have to get smaller and smaller until you disappear completely." Thanks again for your insights, Ram Chandran advaitin, Benjamin Root <orion777ben> wrote: > > Namaste Sri Ram! > > I > believe that many people create misery for themselves and others > through a dishonest and irresponsible attitude. ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 "- Ram Chandran By being spiritual, we understand the value of having a good friend and a good wife and we are obligated to take efforts to avoid 'creating' a bad friend or a bad wife!" How can an Advaitin have a *bad* company? How can he judge others when he doesnt even believe in *others*? Anger, hate, jealousy, pride and the like arises because of plurality, isnt it? The impression of plurality has its roots deep down. Spiritual growth is definetely a long journey ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Namaste: The advaitic goal of reaching the state of Nirguna is the ultimate reality (Paramarthika). But we do live in a pluralistic world and experience the vyavaharika level reality and our Gunas (Satvik, Rajastik and Tamasik) changes at different moments of time. At the paramarthika level pluralities such as good and bad, joy and sorrow, love and hatred, etc. don't exist. But at the vyavaharika level we do need to employ our intellect to discriminate between the good and bad and choose accordingly. The spiritual growth happens gradually and we need to recognize the value of being spiritual. The spiritual and material approaches to life has been well documented and illustrated by Sage Vedavyasa in Mahabharat. The materialistic approach to life was beautifully dramatized by the members of the Kaurava family which includes includes Dhryodhana, Dhuchchadhana and others). Pandavas in contrast demonstrated the spiritual approach to life. Yudhistra the eldest of the Pandavas was a Satvik person with noble goals of life. Dhryodhan on the otherhand exhibited Tamasik Guna and his only goal is to acquire wealth and seek the pleasures of life. At the time of war, Lord Krishna gave two options to Dhryodhana and Arjuna ask them to make thier own choice: option 1: Lord Krishna will provide guidance and moral support and will not participate in the war as a soldier. option 2. The entire army of Krishna's kingdom along with horses, elephants and weapons will be provided. Lord Krishna also asked Dhryodhana to make his choice first with the condition that the option not chosen by Dhryodhana will be awarded to Arjuna. Dhryodhana who was drowned in materialism obviously chose Krishna's army and weapons instead of Krishna! During the Mahabharat, the Kauravas possessed the best army and weaponary where as the Pandavas had the best mind (in the form of Lord Krishna). When the Mahabharat war was over, the entire Kaurava army was completly destroyed! The Mahabharat story is quite subtle and Vedavyasa's dramatization was just to illustrate that materialism will ultimately bring misery and grief where as spiritualism will ultimately bring spiritualism. Mahabharat contains another interesting episode to illustrate that good and bad are only our own creations. Lord Krishna in one of the occasions asked the evil minded Dhryodhana to find and bring a good person to Him. At the same time, Lord Krishna requested the good natured Yudhistra to find and bring a bad person to Him. Both Yudhistra and Dhryodhana went for a long search and returned back empty handed. Yudhistra said to Lord Krishna that he didn't find any bad person either. Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, "Ranjeet Sankar" > How can an Advaitin have a *bad* company? How can he judge others when he > doesnt even believe in *others*? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...> wrote: > Namaste: > > The advaitic goal of reaching the state of Nirguna is the ultimate > reality (Paramarthika). But we do live in a pluralistic world and > experience the vyavaharika level reality and our Gunas (Satvik, > Rajastik and Tamasik) changes at different moments of time. At the > paramarthika level pluralities such as good and bad, joy and sorrow, > love and hatred, etc. don't exist. But at the vyavaharika level we do > need to employ our intellect to discriminate between the good and bad > and choose accordingly. The spiritual growth happens gradually and we > need to recognize the value of being spiritual. > Namaste, Has there ever been an exception where anyone escaped the 'dark night of the soul' ? http://www.catholicfirst.com/TheFaith/CatholicClassics/JohnoftheCross/ dark_night/darknight1.htm http://calvarychapel.com/library/Bunyan- John/PilgrimsProgress/PilgrimsProgress.htm#010 [the split-up URLs may not work as direct links]. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 "The advaitic goal of reaching the state of Nirguna is the ultimate reality (Paramarthika). But we do live in a pluralistic world and experience the vyavaharika level reality and our Gunas (Satvik, Rajastik and Tamasik) changes at different moments of time. At the paramarthika level pluralities such as good and bad, joy and sorrow, love and hatred, etc. don't exist. But at the vyavaharika level we do need to employ our intellect to discriminate between the good and bad and choose accordingly. The spiritual growth happens gradually and we need to recognize the value of being spiritual." living a lie to realize the Truth.. just a thought :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Namaste Sri Ranjit: It is not living a lie, but just lie down and free all thoughts to realize the Truth! advaitin, "Ranjeet Sankar" wrote: > ... > living a lie to realize the Truth.. > just a thought :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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