Scriptures and violence

[Guest guest]

Namaste!

 

Michael said (mirror message #17638)

>Sorry to be tiresome about this but has any war ever been

>fought on purely religious grounds. From what you say the

>inference could be drawn that war was joined on behalf of

>Christian or Muslim values. Wars are fought for political

>reasons, for control, pillage, plunder, empire building.

>Rationalisations may be offered which have a religious tinge

>but really that is high minded guff. They happen to be Muslims

>or Hindus or Christians or Protestants or Catholics but in fact

>it's tribal dominance that is the issue. No scripture whatever

>sanctions rapine. Jihad is inner moral struggle. Latterly we

>have an invading army remaining on to promote truth, justice

>and the American way (like Superman). Do you believe that or

>is it globalisation - empire building by another means?

 

 

Hmmmm... Let me see if I can handle this in a mature and polite way.

Of course, the moderators will already be concerned that I am

digressing from the topic of Advaita. But let's be honest about

something. We are all interested in religion, and there are some

aspects of religion that are of great importance to everybody, about

which it is our duty to be *informed*. We cannot really separate

Advaita from the general subject of religion and its effect on

humanity, though we should not digress too much into these

socio-political aspects. Anyhow, this will be interesting.

 

One of these topics concerns the ethics of the various scriptures

that guide the world's major religions, especially regarding

tolerance and divinely sanctioned violence. I shall simply be

factual and present a series of quotations from such scriptures, and

the reader can decide for himself. I am convinced that many

well-intentioned people who sweetly say that all religions are

nothing but 'good' (and that only people are bad) have simply not

done their homework. They are idealists who simply assume that the

various scriptures agree with their gentle preconceptions. Often

this is the case, but not always, as we will see.

 

First, though, I must make an important point. I am fully aware that

many millions of devout people of all faiths ignore the darker

aspects of their scriptures and concentrate on what is good. Thank

God for that! However, it is a fact that the dark parts exist, and

it does seem to me that they are more numerous in the Bible and the

Koran than in the Eastern scriptures. And these violent passages

have inspired much real-life violence throughout the ages and

continue to do so. We must accept this, while remaining aware of the

good people who disregard what is not so good in their scriptures.

 

Now let me present a series of quotes for your edification. You can

form your own judgements. And as I have said, I am only showing some

of the darker parts of these scriptures, while neglecting the light,

which is also definitely there.

 

 

1) THE BIBLE.

 

Let us start with the Bible. Most of the following is from the

so-called Old Testament of the Jews, since this is where the most

violence occurs. I hasten to add that most of the Jews I have met

have been modern, educated, enlightened, decent, secular, progressive

and all that good stuff. Which proves my point that people can be

better than the darkest parts of their scriptures, especially if they

use their brains instead of blindly following some book just because

someone calls it 'holy'.

 

Now you must understand that the God of the Bible does not like idols

(Hindus beware!), nor adultery and prostitution. But what do you

think the punishment for those sexual offenses should be? Not death,

I hope! (I assume that few list members wish to punish so-called

idolatry with even a fine!) Well, the following punishments are from

a very angry God for one or the other of the above mentioned 'sins'.

These are just quotes, folks! You can look them up yourself.

 

By the way, you will see that Michael is simply wrong when he says

that 'no scripture whatsoever sanctions rapine'. You would think so,

but the evidence says otherwise. Also, notice that much of this rape

is a result of the spoils of war, a barbarism that is repeated in the

Koran, again with God's approval. This was carried out in real life

with millions of Hindu women when the Muslims invaded India for

centuries starting in the 10th century. We know this from the

chronicles of the actual invaders, who boasted of their exploits in

the name of Allah. And it is disingenuous to say that this was done

despite the religion, when the scriptural quotes actually encourage

it, as you will see. For some serious studies on the Muslim

invasions of India, see

 

http://www.bharatvani.org/

 

 

Useful references for violence in the Bible are:

 

Biblical Atrocities compiled by Donald Morgan

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.shtml

 

Cruelty and Violence in the Bible

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty.html

 

 

Here are the quotes. (For Hindus, the funny names at the tops of the

quotes refer to various books of the Bible. The 'Lord' refers to

God.)

 

Ezekiel 5:8-10

"Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself am against

you, Jerusalem, and I will inflict punishment on you in the sight of

the nations. Because of all your detestable idols, I will do to you

what I have never done before and will never do again. Therefore in

your midst fathers will eat their children, and children will eat

their fathers. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all

your survivors to the winds.

 

Ezekiel 9:4-6

....and [the Lord] said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem

and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over

all the detestable things that are done in it." As I listened, he

said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without

showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens,

women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin

at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were in front of

the temple.

 

Numbers 31:17-18

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,

but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

 

Numbers 31:40

So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses. The

plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000

sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys and 32,000 women who had never

slept with a man. The half share of those who fought in the battle

was: 337,500 sheep, of which the tribute for the LORD was 675; 36,000

cattle, of which the tribute for the LORD was 72; 30,500 donkeys, of

which the tribute for the LORD was 61; 16,000 people [women...do the

math], of which the tribute for the LORD was 32.

 

Deuteronomy 20:13-14

When the LORD your God delivers it [a conquered city] into your hand,

put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children,

the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as

plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God

gives you from your enemies.

 

Deuteronomy 20:16

However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you

as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. [i

guess insects are spared...]

 

Deuteronomy 21:10-13

When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God

delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice

among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you

may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her

shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was

wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned

her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be

her husband and she shall be your wife. [Haha! As though a captive

woman will willingly become the wife of an enemy who slew her people

and husband.]

 

Deuteronomy 2:33-34

The LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down,

together with his sons and his whole army. At that time we took all

his towns and completely destroyed them - men, women and children. We

left no survivors.

 

Joshua 6:21-27

They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every

living thing in it - men and women, young and old, cattle [Hindus

will love this], sheep and donkeys. Joshua said to the two men who

had spied out the land, "Go into the prostitute's house and bring her

out and all who belong to her, in accordance with your oath to her."

So the young men who had done the spying went in and brought out

Rahab, her father and mother and brothers and all who belonged to

her. They brought out her entire family and put them in a place

outside the camp of Israel. Then they burned the whole city and

everything in it, but they put the silver and gold and the articles

of bronze and iron into the treasury of the LORD's house. But Joshua

spared Rahab the prostitute, with her family and all who belonged to

her, because she hid the men Joshua had sent as spies to Jericho -

and she lives among the Israelites to this day. [isn't the LORD

nice. He spares only a prostitute, because she was a traitor to her

people. Also, notice how much he loves precious metals. What a

great example of detachment.]

 

Joshua 8:22-25

The men of the ambush also came out of the city against them, so that

they were caught in the middle, with Israelites on both sides. Israel

cut them down, leaving them neither survivors nor fugitives. But they

took the king of Ai alive and brought him to Joshua. When Israel had

finished killing all the men of Ai in the fields and in the desert

where they had chased them, and when every one of them had been put

to the sword, all the Israelites returned to Ai and killed those who

were in it. Twelve thousand men and women fell that day - all the

people of Ai. {That's right ... ALL the people. And you thought the

US troops were bad?!!]

 

Oh, and this God also condones slavery:

 

Leviticus 25:44

25. "As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may

buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you.

You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and

their families that are with you, who have been born in your land;

and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons

after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of

them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule,

one over another, with harshness."

 

And on and on and on ...

 

 

Now the Koran is no better. Indeed the Koran patterns itself on the

Bible, but with even more harshness and less 'wisdom', in my opinion.

Must have something to do with the desert heat. The following speaks

for itself. Again, although many [hopefully most] Muslims are decent

people who simply ignore these darker passages, the fact remains that

a great many of them actually glorify these passages and wish to

reenact them today. To them, Mohammed was the ultimate Jihadi, and

converting the whole world to Islam is the ultimate goal. And force

rather than persuasion is very much part of the game. That is

reality. It is simply false to say, as Michael does, that Jihad is

[only] inner moral struggle. That is what the sweet-talking

good-hearted idealists of the world believe, and it is indeed true

for many Muslims. But not all of them. And those who take the

harsher and more militarist view have plenty of scripture to back

them up.

 

A useful reference is http://www.faithfreedom.org/

 

Here are the quotes. All of the following is from the above website.

When you get to the comments he makes regarding Iran, you must

realize that he is a refugee from Iran and knows what he is talking

about. (Of course, the letter 'Q' refers to Quran.)

 

'We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. They serve

other gods for whom no sanction is revealed. Hell shall be their

home.' The Imrans; Sura 3:150.

 

'When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks then, when you have

made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them

free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its load.'

Women; Sura 4:47. To 'smite a neck' means to decapitate.

 

'When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you

find them. Arrest them, besiege them, lie in ambush everywhere for

them.' Repentance'; Sura 9:5.

 

Quran tells Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them

(Q. 2:191), to murder them and treat them harshly (Q. 9:123), slay

them (Q. 9:5), fight with them, (Q. 8:65) even if they are

Christians and Jews, humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax

(Q. 9:29). Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity

and tells clearly that no other religion except Islam is accepted (Q.

3:85). It relegates those who disbelieve in Quran to hell (Q. 5:10),

calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (Q. 9:28). It orders

its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except

Islam is left (Q. 2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to

hell and will drink boiling water (Q. 14:17). It asks the Muslims to

slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that

they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that 'they shall

have a great punishment in world hereafter' (Q.5:34). 'As for the

disbelievers', it says that 'for them garments of fire shall be cut

and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby

whatever is in their bowls and skin shall be dissolved and they will

be punished with hooked iron rods' (Q. 22:9). Quran prohibits a

Muslim to befriend a non-believer even if that non-believer is the

father or the brother of that Muslim (Q. 9:23), (Q. 3:28). Quran asks

the Muslims to 'strive against the unbelievers with great endeavor

(Q. 25:52), be stern with them because they belong to hell' (Q.

66:9). The holy Prophet demanded his follower to 'strike off the

heads of the disbelievers'; then after making a 'wide slaughter among

them, carefully tie up the remaining captives' (Q. 47:4).

 

As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and

their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found

disobedient (Q. 4:34). It teaches that women will go to hell if they

are disobedient to their husbands (Q. 66:10). It maintains that men

have an advantage over the women (Q. 2:228). It not only denies the

women's equal right to their inheritance (Q. 4:11-12), it also

regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not

admissible in the court (Q. 2:282). This means that a woman who is

raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness.

Muhammad allowed the Muslims to marry up to four wives and gave them

license to sleep with their slave maids and as many 'captive' women

as they may have (Q. 4:3). He himself did just that. This is why

anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir

and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers raped up

to 250,000 Bangali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000

unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that

Bangladeshis are unislamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic

regime of Iran rape the women and then kill them after calling them

apostates and the enemies of Allah.

 

Now what about Hinduism? Is there any dark stuff? I'm sure there

is, though I've mostly been concentrating on Advaita. Anyhow, I'm

aware of a lot of angry Dalit websites who love Ambedkar and don't

particularly like Brahmins. I don't know India well enough to take

sides in that struggle, but I will provide some quotes from the Laws

of Manu obtained from a Dalit website at

 

http://www.angelfire.com/ak/ambedkar/BRManusmriti.html

 

Regarding the study of Vedas by shudras:

 

IV - 99. He (the twice born) must never read (the vedas) ----- in the

presence of the shudras.

 

VIII - 37. When a learned Brahmin has found treasure, deposited in

former (times), he may take even the whole (of it); for he is the

master of everything.

 

VIII - 270. A shudra who insults a twice born man [i.e. Brahmin] with

gross invective, shall have his tongue cut out; for he is of low

origin.

 

VIII - 271. If he mentions names and castes of the (twice born) with

contumely, an iron nail, ten fingers, shall be thrust red hot into

his mouth.

 

VIII - 410. King should order each man of the mercantile class to

practice trade, or money lending or agriculture and attendance on

cattle; and each man of the servile class to act in the service of

the twice born.

 

So I guess everything is not sweet in every Hindu 'scripture'.

However, I don't know if the Laws of Manu are as important to Hindus

as the Bible and Koran are to Jews, Christians and Muslims. I have

heard that the Laws of Manu were almost forgotten until the British

revived them as part of their 'divide and conquer' strategy (to

weaken India by exploiting caste divisions). More importantly, I

have seen nothing but truth, love and wisdom in the Upanishads. That

is why I am interested in Advaita!!!!

 

Finally, regarding what Michael said about the US invasion of Iraq...

Well, we really must not get into politics here. (The preceding had

to do with *scriptures*, i.e. religion.) I will just say that I

agree that the US has made many mistakes, such as being too close to

dictators when it suited us. Also, I do fear global dominance by

gigantic corporations increasingly accountable to no nation. But I

also believe the Weapons of Mass Destruction are real and extremely

dangerous in the hands of terrorists who are clearly suicidal. That

is very very scary. Enough said.

 

I hope this was informative. Please remember what I said about

millions of good people ignoring the darker parts of their

scriptures. That is the major SILVER LINING to this dark cloud!!!!

 

Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Benjamin Root <orion777ben>

wrote:

>

> Namaste!

>

> Michael said (mirror message #17638)

>

> >Sorry to be tiresome about this but has any war ever been

> >fought on purely religious grounds. From what you say the

> >inference could be drawn that war was joined on behalf of

> >Christian or Muslim values. Wars are fought for political

 

Namaste,

 

We are on very shaky ground trying to use these books as history

instead of esoteric...

 

http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/politicoconspiracy/RothschildsPalesti

ne.htm

 

ONS....Tony.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

That url is too long so here are the relevant parts of my article or

piece......ONS...Tony.

 

 

Secondly let me say that the Israelis themselves are in the main just

as much in the dark, about their own genetic origins. In the end, how

they behave is more important than what they are. This is not an anti-

semitic piece, although no doubt it is politically incorrect in some

quarters.

 

 

 

The Article:

 

Now on with this months article about the settlement of Palestine and

the rather spurious claims to it by the Israelis. Mostly Zionist

financed by the Rothchilds, to buy land for Jews. Nobody said

anything about a State, even the British Balfour Declaration of 1916,

talked of only a home.

 

The Claim is based on a Jewish existence based on the Bible.

 

There is no evidence for the existence of Solomon or David except in

the Bible.

 

(Chaim Romanescu of Tel Aviv University) The Temple Mount could not

have been built by Solomon because it was built 400 years prior to

the claimed time of his existence 1,000 B.C. The description in the

Bible fits the Palace/Temple of Amenhotep III at Thebes in Egypt!

Right down to the mosaics on the floor, described by the Queen of

Sheba/Saba. The Temple Mount was probably built by Egyptian Tothmosis

III, in or about 1468 B.C. The word David in Hebrew is written DWD

which means Toth in Egyptian. He was the conqueror of Palestine and

David is probably loosely based on this character.

 

Moses/Mosis was probably Akenaten the Pharoah, ( this was a theory

held by Sigmund Freud), who was thrown out of Egypt for his

monotheism. The word Mosis means 'rightful heir', in Egyptian. Moses

is also probably, as well, a composite figure from different times

and exoduses. Hebrew settlements existed in Europe, Ethiopia, India,

Arabia and the settlement in Palestine/Falastinia/Philistinia never

was as large as to occupy the whole country. The

Palestinians/Canaanites pre date any Hebrew existence in Palestine.

 

Most Hebrew history was written in Babylon, for there was no Hebrew

literature until 500 B.C. It was mostly purloined from Egyptian

stories to give the Jews a feeling of identity and continuity. Which

in itself is not a bad motive, considering the times. The Songs of

Solomon are a mixture and many reflect a female view. Also the

Essenes never were prisoners in Babylon and preserved a direct line

of Mosaic Law, somewhat on the fringes of the new religion.

 

(Credit: Michael Bradley who has written articles on this subject,

recently in the Vancouver Sun, October 10.)

 

So as one can see the Bible is an esoteric book with much fiction and

cannot be used as a history book or for the validation for

dispossessing the Palestinians. I am not saying some Jews did not

come from Palestine, although at the time of Jesus there were many

races and religions there.

 

Most of the Jews in Israel are not wholly, Hebrew but a mixture of

Europeans and in some cases Turkic Khazars. Http://www.khazaria.com

 

This has been born out by Jewish investigations into the genetic

origins of Israelis, who seem to be closer to the Kurds ( Indo-

Europeans) and Turks than the surrounding Arab Semites. Some of the

later Russians have very tenuous claims to being Hebrew or even

Jewish at all. So we are left with a mostly Sephardic minority, who

have any real claim at all.

The Bible Unearthed:

Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of its

Sacred Texts

by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman

~ Book Review By Adrienne Morris ~

March 2003

Why is understanding the origins and purposes of the Bible important?

No one book has more strongly influenced Western history, and still

does. Modern Zionists justify not only Israel's existence but its

aggression based on so-ca1led Biblical history. Right-wing Christians

who believe in a literal Bible strongly influence the Bush

administration policies. Sadly, most Americans are ignorant of its

nature and contents. This makes them very vulnerable to manipulation

and power-grabbing "authorities."

 

Starting with genuine Biblical criticism in the 18th century, most of

it has been focused on the text itself, and later with what actual

history seemed to reveal or not. The Bible Unearthed is a revelation

of the vast difference between what the Bible claims and what modern

archeology has demonstrated. It is no surprise to find out there were

no patriarchs, no exodus, no conquest of Canaan. What might be

surprising to many is that Finkelstein, an archeologist at Tel Aviv

University, and Silberman, also an archeologist and historian, also

draw conclusions from archeological digs all over Israel in the past

few decades to conclude that there was not even a united monarchy.

 

The book is divided into three logical sections: "The Bible as

History" (it isn't), "The Rise and Fall of Ancient Israel" (not so

ancient after all) and "Judah and the Making of Biblical History"

(most of it was fabricated for political and religious purposes). The

last section is, in my opinion, the most interesting one. The two

authors think the "book of law," most probably Deuteronomy, was

produced in the 7th century BCE by King Josiah and cohorts to purify

the cult of Yahweh and further the aims of a small nation. Monotheism

began to take root, and the Bible began to be compiled, pulling on

many traditions, being edited and embellished at will.. It is among

other things a political document designed to connect Josiah, etc.,

to a golden era, weaving historical fragments and myths of various

Canaanite peoples to justify expansionist policies. The Israelites

were originally natives of the land, indistinguishable from other

Canaanite peoples. Much later they became the "chosen people"--an

ambivalent legacy.

 

I highly recommend this book to anyone who thinks it is important to

demythologize the ancient idols to which so many humans remain

subject. Without benefit of modern science, Thomas Jefferson

wrote, "We discover (in the Bible) a groundwork of vulgar ignorance,

of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism, and fabrication."

He was so right.

 

I also recommend two classics, Folklore in the Old Testament by J. G.

Frazer and Robert Graves and the Hebrew Myths by Graves and R. Patai.

 

The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and

the Origin of its Sacred Texts, by Israel Finkelstein and Neil

Silberman; The Free Press, 2001.

 

--Adrienne Morris

 

 

 

Also considering the way in which the Palestinians were expelled from

Israel, the Israelis owe them compensation. We cannot turn the clock

back but we can prevent the same thing happening in the West Bank and

Gaza, with the stealing of land and building of settlements. My

solution would be to return to pre 1967 borders, dismantle

settlements in the West Bank, give Palestinians Independence

and 'Internationalise' Jerusalem, give financial compensation to

those, whose property was stolen in Israel proper.

 

One must remember that Judaism is a religion, not a race and all Jews

cannot be tarred with the same brush as some Israelis. They are as

exploited and manipulated as the rest of us. However since when is a

religion allowed to take over a country on its own basis? Its like

saying all Catholics have a right to live in Italy, because the Popes

live in Rome.

 

Both Romanised Christianity and Pharaseic Judaism survived because

they were allowed to by the Romans. Notwithstanding that today

Judaism is descended from the Pharisees and celebrates Hannuka of the

Maccabees, who they split from or were rivals to.

 

(This also applies to all the immigrant countries, USA, CANADA,

AUSTRALIA ETC, where the natives were dispossessed. However the

settlement of Palestine was at a much later date, and colonialism was

in it's last days. Also the Palestinians came from a much more

definate, organised background and civilisation, than did the

Aborigines and Native North Americans.)

 

During the war to take over Palestine, Begin's plan was to destroy

400 Arab villages and kill or expel the inhabitants, as in:-

 

DEIR YASSIN. The roots of Palestinian hatred! Search under Deir

Yassin.

 

 

 

'It's difficult to count'

 

By Amira Huweidy

 

Few survived the massacre of Deir Yassin 50 years ago, and of them,

even fewer are alive today to recount its horrors. Amira Howeidy

reviews the carnage through their words

 

Despite controversy over the exact number of those slain in the Deir

Yassin massacre, the length of time their murder took and the

strategic significance of the location of the village, the survivors'

accounts unanimously agree in their descriptions of the atrocities

committed by the Jewish gangs begining around daybreak on Friday 9

April 1948, and lasting until dusk.

 

Abu Mahmoud (1) was 21 when the massacre took place. He and his young

friends "were ready for whatever might happen after the battle of

Kastel." A day earlier the leader of the Palestinian guerrilla, Abdul-

Qader El-Husseini, had been seriously wounded at Al-Qastal. Residents

of the neighboring town of Deir Yassin were alarmed. "By 4.30 pm on

Thursday 8 April, El-Husseini was dead. We were watching the battle

from a distance. After his death we took precautionary measures in

case anything happened: we guarded the village until 2.30 the next

morning when the Jews began to enter using spot and search lights to

look for our fighters. The Jews closed in on the village, exchanging

fire with us as they came." Mahmoud Kassem El-Yassini (2) who

witnessed the massacre at age 15, clearly remembered that the village

had actually been surrounded since the night before. His mother was

in labour, "we could not get to a hospital because the village was

under siege and there was no way out by night. At four o'clock on the

morning of Friday 9 April, we heard shots coming from all directions.

Then people started screaming: "The Jews have taken us," and "The

Jews are taking hold of Deir Yassin."

 

In the whole village, he says, there were "40 British-made guns...

and no mortar of any kind." By contrast, Abu Mahmoud points out, "The

Jews had all sorts of automatic weapons, tanks, missiles, cannons."

 

"Once they entered the village, fighting became very heavy on the

eastern side, and later it spread to other parts, to the quarry and

the village centre, until it reached the western edge. The battle was

on three fronts: East, South and North," Abu Mahmoud recounts. The

Western front, following the pattern of phase 1 of Plan Dalet (3),

was open for survivors to escape and tell others of the horrors they

had seen with their own eyes.

 

The fighting, says Abu Mahmoud, continued till around 3.30 in the

afternoon. Most survivors describe what happened during the preceding

12 to 14 hours as "indiscriminate" killing. "They used to enter

houses and kill women and children indiscriminately," Mahmoud for one

recounts.

 

"I saw how Hilweh Zeidan was killed, along with her husband, her son,

her brother and Khumayyes. Hilweh Zeidan went out to collect the body

of her husband. They shot her and she fell over his body... I also

saw Hayat Bilbeissi, a nurse from Jerusalem who was serving in the

village, as she was shot before the door of Musa Hassan's house. The

daughter of Abu El-Abed was shot dead as she held her baby niece. The

baby was shot too... Whoever tried to run away was shot dead," says

Um Mohammed (4), 64, who was fifteen when the events took place.

 

El-Yassini tells of horrific details. "Everything seemed strange.

There was blood everywhere. A dead woman holding her baby reminded me

of my mother, so I dashed to our house. I found my mother hiding in

fear in the basement and when she saw me she cried and started

screaming. She told me to go to my uncle's house next door through a

hole in the wall to make sure that the rest of the family was still

alive. When I peered through the hole, I saw horror. I could see

traces of blood all over the place. All that I could see was blood. I

knew that they had all been massacred... I had lost my uncles Youssef

and Mohammed Hamida."

 

Rape, mutilation and humiliation were the norm. Says El-

Yassini, "there were [corpses of] women lying in houses with their

skirts torn up to their waists and their legs wide apart; children

with their throats cut open, rows of young men shot in the back after

being lined up at an execution wall. There were even bodies of

babies." Moreover, "some had vivid crimson or black scars down the

left side of their throats. One of the women held a tiny baby against

her body. The bullet had passed through her breast and killed the

baby. Someone had slit open her stomach, cutting sideways and then

upwards, perhaps trying to kill her unborn child. Her eyes were wide

open, her dark face frozen in horror."

 

The number of the victims of the Deir Yassin massacre remains

controversial. Most researchers, following a statement given to the

press by Mordechai Ra'anan (the then Irgun Zvai Leumi commander for

Jerusalem, and commander of the Deir Yassin operation), use the

figure 254. That same figure was confirmed by The 254 figure appears

in almost every account of the massacre at the time it occured.

Sources endorsing that figure include: the Jewish Agency, a Red Cross

official, the New York Times and Dr Hussein Al-Khalidi, spokesman of

the Jersualem-based Arab Higher Committee. However, this figure has

been periodically contested, mainly by extreme right wing Zionist

researchers. They claim that the figure cannot be more than 120-140.

Yet whatever sources we adopt, it remains an undisputed fact that the

number of victims was immense and horrified the survivors. El-Yassini

recalls, "I remember hearing a Jewish terrorist who was touring the

village and reporting the massacre, saying, 'Minus 15 Arabs. Minus 60

Arabs.' After a while his message on the radio to headquarters

became: 'It's difficult to count.'" Fifteen-year-old El-Yassini did

not count, but "came across the evidence of widespread murder. Dozens

of bodies of men littered the streets... Down an alleyway, no more

than 50 yards from our house, there lay a pile of corpses. There were

more than a dozen young men whose arms and legs were wrapped around

each other in the agony of death. All had been shot at point-blank

range through the cheek, the bullet tearing away a line of flesh up

to the ear before entering the brain... We found out later that whole

families were killed. I heard that the Zahran clan lost 40 men, women

and children. They were the first family in Deir Yassin to be

slaughtered by the Jewish terrorists."

 

Despite the complete destruction of the village, which was now firmly

under Jewish control, the killing frenzy continued unabated.

According to Abu Yousef (5) who was 21, "after the battle, the Jews

took elderly men and women and youths, including four of my cousins

and a nephew. They took them all. Women who had on them gold and

money were stripped of their gold. After the Jews had removed their

dead and wounded, they took the men to the quarry and sprayed them

all with bullets... One woman saw her son taken some 40 to 60 metres

away from where she and the rest of the women stood, and shot dead.

Then they brought Jewish kids to throw stones at his body. Then, they

poured kerosene over his body and set it ablaze, while the women

watched from a distance."

 

"Later, we collected together and checked who was missing. We were

brought to Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem by the Arab Higher Committee. Each

of us was looking for a son, a daughter, a sister or a mother."

 

"The elderly men were told to remove the dead, both Arabs and Jews.

They took the bodies of the Jews and left the Arab bodies; later they

were thrown down a well in the village centre."

 

Abu Mahmoud makes a similar account. "They took about 40 prisoners

from the village. After the battle was over, they took them to the

quarry where they shot them dead and threw their bodies into the

quarry. After they had removed their dead and wounded, they took the

prisoners and killed them."

 

Although the survivors of Deir Yassin were given shelter in the Al-

Aqsa mosque, they were still not safe. "I saw many Jewish assailants

targeting the Dome of the Rock with mortar bombs" says El-

Yassini. "After a while, we had to go to the village of Abu Dies,

because in Jerusalem we were constantly under attack.

 

There were many more massacres like this and it is a lie that the

Palestinians left under their own accord, they were expelled from

their own land. I may be painted as an anti-Semite for writing this

but, I am not, it is the Truth.

 

Also: http://codoh.com/zionweb/zionmassacres.html by a Jewish

researcher, Guy Erlich…of…Ha'ir.

 

So not all Israelis/Jews can be painted with the same brush, there is

honesty and integrity as well. Also in all fairness, there have been

massacres of Jews by Palestinians, over many years, but it is

disproportionate to the suffering of the Palestinians. However

lurking in the background is always Rothschilds and the Illuminati.

Who really wanted to form Israel to 'mind', the middle east and its

oil resources. Of course as a matter of expediency many Jews

emigrated after the Holocaust, believing the same myth of origins.

The Europeans got rid of some refugees in the process, but the

Palestinians became refugees.

 

Although Judaism has been hi-jacked so to speak this doesn't take

anything away from it in a religious sense. It is a religion like any

other and many good and pious people have been produced by it. Also

many Jews do not support a Religious State at all, even if they

support a spiritual Zionism.

 

Israel should be a secular state behind 1967 borders.

 

 

 

Regards Tony.