Fig Trees and horses.

[Guest guest]

--- Sunder Hattangadi <sunderh wrote:

> Hope that this ride by a 'Sancho Panza on

> the donkey' will

> not deter Ken-ji and others from developing their

> own insights.

 

Good Morning Sunder (also known as Sancho),

 

Ignoring the Spanish part of your alias:

Sanskrit: sam....together with

cho....to cut off

 

All this etymology and imagery of horses and trees and

fruits and figs and apples and all this division is

great fun but how good it is to settle back into

simple statements such as 'The Self is One.'

 

That is why I like your following statement:

>

> a = not

> shvas = tomorrow

> sthatta = existing

>

> a-shva-ttha = unsteady, 'shaken by the winds of

> desire' (Shankara

> Bhashya on Katha Upanishad, II:iii:1; it is used in

> the same manner

> in Gita 15:1).

 

So taking out Sancho's sword of discrimination we can

rest, stand still in understanding before being

impelled once more into the appearance of duality.

 

Back on our horses then.

Some years ago I was being introduced to a Sufi Pir

who asked my name. He found the surname 'Knight' to be

amusing. 'Do you ride your horse or does the horse

ride you?' he asked. I was somewhat baffled but later

in the day it was explained that in the Sufi

traditional teaching stories the 'horse' is the ego

(ahankara). This has been very useful teaching over

the years, not only in watching the movements in this

mind but also in understanding Sufi stories. There

is, of course, equivalent interpretation in India's

teachings.

> Vedic symbolism of the horse (which is

> associated with the

> Gods Indra, Surya, and Vayu) is given by Sri

> Aurobindo as the Vital

> Powers, and the Horse-Sacrifice (Ashvamedha Yajna)

> as the offering of

> these to the Supreme.

 

While following the horse though all the various

kingdoms yesterday I was led to HH Chandrashekharendra

Sarasvati's 'Hindu Dharma' page 33. Here he interprets

the elements of the biblical 'Garden of Eden': Eve

being 'jiva' and Adam the 'AtmAn'. I have heard this

tradition before and believe that there may be some

long lost etymology in this but would question his

statement 'The Upanishadic ideas transplanted into a

distant land underwent a change after the lapse of

centuries.'

The Upanishads and the Hebrew Creation myths are

probably close in their dates and maybe the latter

came first in any case.

I think he should probably have said the 'Vedic ideas'

and that takes us back to the Peepal fruit. HH has an

interesting diversion in that he likens the sound of

the word 'peepal' to the English 'apple'. I like

that. In fact 'Pippin' is a tart type of apple in

England.

 

So the horse wandered awhile.

 

The appearance of the fruit from Eden as being an

apple has always baffled me as the Bible talks of the

'Tree of Life' and the 'Tree of good and evil'.

 

In our advaitin understanding then this is easy.

Because Adam and Eve, us, eat of the fruit of the

seeing of duality 9good and bad, I like, I do not

like,' then we are impelled out of the garden of

unity.

So maybe it was a fig tree there in the Garden.

We can see this 'journeying' in the Vedic and Vedantin

teachings as the sweetness of the fig...the taste of

devotion in unity maybe.......becomes the tainted

sweetness of sensuality and its accompanying

bitterness.

 

And still the horse roamed on.

 

Following the apple, with the question, 'What is the

history of the apple?', the following appeared when

describing a type of apple known in the Near Eastern

lands. It sounds like a gourd but with our

pleasure/pain theme the description is wonderful:

'It is round and very attractive to look at but turns

to dust when it is touched.'

Sounds like Microsoft products.

 

Then came some very pleasing territory. The story of

the Labours of Hercules and the Golden Apples took me

to this site:

 

http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/hercules/herc1019.html

 

This kind of writing would not normally draw me in

because I do not get excited by astrology.......'When

the true sun shines they (the constellations) are

nakshatra ( without power).' (Jyotisha

Vedanga)......but there is some very good reasoning in

this essay which I would recommend. I have not looked

at anything else on the site but thought that Sunder

would like to add it to his store of interesting

places to go.

 

I had better put the horse back into the stable until

the meaning of sacrifice is properly understood,

 

Thanks again for the leads which are very useful as

always,

 

Ken Knight

 

 

>

> A similar analogy occurs in Scandinavian

> mythology:

>

>

> http://www.teosofia.com/Mumbai/7101gita.html

>

> "Prof. Ranade, in his Constructive Survey of

> Upanishadic Philosophy,

> compares the Ashwattha with the tree Igdrasil in

> Scandinavian

> mythology, described in Carlyle's picturesque

> language in

> his "Heroes":

> Its boughs with their buddings and

> disleafings—events, things

> suffered, things done, catastrophes—stretch through

> all lands and

> times. Is not every leaf of it a biography, every

> fibre there an act

> or word? Its boughs are histories of nations. The

> rustle of it is the

> noise of human existence, onwards from of old. It

> grows there, the

> breath of human passion rustling through it....It is

> Igdrasil, the

> Tree of Existence. It is the past, the present and

> the future; what

> was done, what is doing, what will be done: the

> infinite conjugation

> of the verb to do. "

>

==================================================================

>

> The word pitaram in RigVeda 1:164:22 has

> been translated by

> Griffith as Fathe, and by Wilson (transl. of

> Sayana's Bhashya) as

> Protector.

>

>

>

http://www.srivaishnava.org/scripts/veda/rv/rvbook1.htm

>

> 1.164.20 Two birds associated together, and mutual

> friends, take

> refuge in the same tree; one of them eats the sweet

> fig; the other

> abstaining from food, merely looks on. [Two birds

> associated

> together: the vital and supreme spirit, jiva_tma_

> and parama_tma_,

> are here alluded to using the metaphor of the two

> birds; eats the

> sweet fig: pippalam sva_du atti: the vital spirit

> enjoys the rewards

> of acts. dvau dvau pratis.t.hitau sukr.tau

> dharmakarta_rau: two

> species of souls to be intended as abiding in one

> body (Nirukta

> 14.30)].

> 1.164.21 Where the smooth-gliding (rays), cognizant

> (of their duty),

> distil the perpetual portion of ambrosia (water);

> there has the lord

> and steadfast protector all beings consigned me,

> (though) immature

> (in wisdom). [smooth-gliding: supran.a = supatanah

> s'obhana gamana

> ras'mayah, the goers easily or beautifully, the rays

> of the sun;

> consigned me: A_ditya has admitted, or admits me,

> the reciter of the

> hymn, to the sphere of the sun].

> 1.164.22 In the tree into which the smooth-gliding

> (rays) feeders on

> the sweet (produce), enter, and again bring forth

> (light) over all,

> they have called the fruit sweet, but he partakes

> not of it who knows

> not the protector (of the universe). [The tree: the

> orb or region of

> the sun; he partakes not of it, who: tan na unna

> s'ad yah pitaram na

> veda: pitaram = pa_laka, cherisher, protector; the

> sun, the supreme

> spirit].

>

==================================================================

>

(in Vedic Symbolism, by

> M.P.Pandit, a disciple

> of Sri Aurobindo.)

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

advaitin, ken knight

> <hilken_98@Y...> wrote:

> > Namaste all,

> > I suspect that this rather odd mail will have

> Sunder

> > riding to my rescue.

> >

>

> >

>

> > I had recently found the background to these in

> the

> > fuller image in RgVeda I.164.20-22 and had been

> > intrigued by the reference to the Father in verse

> 22.

> > This led me to attempt a translation of the

> Sanskrit

> > and hence began an enquiry into the fig-tree and

> its

> > sacred place in the context of the Indian

> > environment...also the parallels with the tree of

> life

> > and knowledge in the Garden of Eden stories.

> >

> > The next step came when I was looking at the 'I

> am'

> > statements in the Bhagavad Gita. When I read in

> 10.26

> > 'Among trees I am the holy fig' I looked at the

> > Sanskrit and found aShvatTas.

> > "What has fig trees got to do with horses?" I

> > wondered. Then lo and behold the next verse

> begins,

> > "Know that I am of horses,Ucchaishravas born of

> > nectar.

> > It was time to get out the dictionary and Monier

> > Williams tells me that aShvatTa means 'under which

> > horses stand' and that Ucchaishravas means

> 'long-eared

> > and neighing loud' and is the name of Indra's

> horse.

> >

> > By now all the symbols were getting to me so I

> > searched the net for the text of the story and for

> > some insights. All very interesting but so far

> only

> > diversions have appeared so I decided to seek help

> > from the members of this site who have a greater

> > understanding of these traditions.

> >

> >

> > Who is the Father in the Rgvedic hymn and why do

> the

> > Upanishads omit this aspect of the image?

> > Why does a 'horse' emerge from the churning?

> > Why is it that the name of the fig tree...ficus

> > religiosa'...... used in the Gita has the idea of

> > horses sheltering under its leaves? Why not

> monkeys,

> > for example? Is it to do with the Sanskrit ucchaiH

> > meaning lofty, high, loud, powerful?

> > In translating the RgVedic hymn I keep coming

> across

> > possible meanings to do with sound and language.

> Any

> > thoughts on this?

> >

>

>

 

 

 

 

SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

http://sbc.