Why cant a Sudra study the upanishads?

[Guest guest]

Where do the upanishads say that a sudra must not read them?(AFAIK,

they dont say anywhere) The Brahmasutras have been interpreted as to

make Sudras ineligible for upanishad study, but the relevant sutra

seems to be lacking in authority from any upanishad. With reference

to the discussion between Yudhisthira and Nahusha in the Mahabharata

vanaparva, the former is of the opinion that birth does not determine

brahmin-hood or sudra-hood and the latter seems to agree. How is this

reconciled with the relevant Brahma sutra?

 

If everything is the Atman, then why withhold the upanishads from

Sudras? Can someone who advocates distinction be considered as a

jIvanmukta? If yes, how can non-duality be still maintained in the

state of liberation?

 

 

Regards

Lakshminarayana

[Guest guest]

Blessed self

 

There is always a disparity between practice vs. preaching - and that is

the human problem and India is no exception for this.

 

Krishna being a universal teacher his teaching has to be universal -

independent of space and time.

 

The classification that he provides is universal and based on the guNa

and the resulting karma. Karma can lead to janma- but that is not

important here. The guNa-s are the mental texture of vasanas which

belong to prakRiti. Those that have satvic tendencies are the one who

are contemplative and Vedanta being an inquiry is specifically addressed

to those.

 

Those who are rajasic will close the books soon and want to jump into

action and therefore the recommended approach is to reduce the

agitations by service - karma yoga.

 

Those that are tamasic - first they need to get rid of lethargy - even

if you try to teach them they not only do not understand but likely to

misunderstand - when Krishna talks about non-action in action.

 

For any filed of inquiry including medicine or engineering or arts - one

requires proper prerequisites and for very subtle investigation of

oneself - the mind has to be subtle - otherwise one sees only

controversies and contradictions. The classification is intended to

channel oneself and not to discriminate the others. The discrimination

in the past and the reverse discrimination now obviously are all

politically motivated. That is again human weakness. Let us not go

beyond that and let us see oneness in all. That is what Vedanta truly

teaches.

 

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

--- narayana_kl_71 <narayana_kl_71 wrote:

> Where do the upanishads say that a sudra must not read them?(

>

> Regards

> Lakshminarayana

 

 

=====

What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift

to Him - Swami Chinmayananda.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Lakshiminarayana:

 

In addition to the excellent explanation of Sadaji, let me add the

following rule of thumb adopted by the sages while evaluating rishis

and rivers. "Do not question either the Rishi moolam or the Nadi

moolam; i.e. the origins of hermits and rivers." Basically during the

vedic time periods, the recognition of a person was only based on

scholarship and character and not on the basis of birth origin. The

term, 'Sudra' during the vedic time was a reference to unqualified

people and was never a reference to a person's birth origin.

Unfortunately, the purity of vedi culture got degenerated mostly due

to socio-political and materialistic influences.

 

Interestingly, we are witnessing a strange situation that is

prevailing in the eastern and western hemisphere: the westerners got

fed up by materialism look to the east for spiritual guidance; and at

the same time the easterners are willing to trade spiritualism in

exchange for materialistic comforts!

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "narayana_kl_71"

<narayana_kl_71> wrote:

> Where do the upanishads say that a sudra must not read them

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <rchandran@c...>

wrote:

> Namaste Sri Lakshiminarayana:

>

> In addition to the excellent explanation of Sadaji, let me add the

> following rule of thumb adopted by the sages while evaluating

rishis

> and rivers. "Do not question either the Rishi moolam or the Nadi

> moolam; i.e. the origins of hermits and rivers." Basically during

the

> vedic time periods, the recognition of a person was only based on

> scholarship and character and not on the basis of birth origin. The

> term, 'Sudra' during the vedic time was a reference to unqualified

> people and was never a reference to a person's birth origin.

> Unfortunately, the purity of vedi culture got degenerated mostly

due

> to socio-political and materialistic influences.

>

 

Namaste,

 

For an insightful discussion of Varnashrama Dharma,Kanchi

Paramacharya's lectures in the book, Hindu Dharma, is valuable:

 

http://www.kamakoti.org/index2.html# esp. part 3.

 

The Vana Parva of Mahabharata also has several refernces to

this subject, and the concluding one is:

 

http://sanskrit.gde.to/mirrors/mahabharata/txt/03.txt

 

yastu shUdro dame satye dharme cha satatotthitaH .

taM brAhmaNamahaM manye vR^ittena hi bhaveddvijaH ..

 

"I consider to be a Brahmana that Sudra who is ever endowed with self-

restraint,, truthfulness and righteousness. A man becomes a Brahmana

by his conduct."

Mahabharata Vana (Aranya) Parva 206:12

 

Satyakama Jabala did not know his lineage, and was accepted

for initiation. Shankara refers to Raikva and Gargi Vachaknavi in the

Brahma Sutra Bhashya as other examples.

 

Finally, in the Gita (9:32), Krishna says:

 

maa.n hi paartha vyapaashritya ye.api syuH paapayonayaH .

striyo vaishyaastathaa shuudraaste.api yaanti paraaM gatim.h ..

 

"Taking refuge in Me, women, Vaishyas, Sudras, and likewise even

those of inferior birth, attain to the highest spiritual goal."

 

One should not confuse the goal of Moksha, which is the birth-

right to be fulfilled by everyone, with the qualifications required

for pursuing a particular path.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder