Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Namaste Madathil, In B.S.B. II.i.9 I find this (directed to it by an article in Philosophy East and West by Michael Comans on the differing emphasis on samadhi in Sankara's commentary on the priniciple Upanishads and later vedanta eg.Vivekananada): "As in natural slumber and samadhi (absorption in divine consciousness), though there is a natural eradication of differences, still owing to the persistence of the unreal nescience, differences occur over again when one wakes up ...." Comans points out that there is no direct talk about samadhi in these upanishads and in the commentary there is likewise no mention of it. There are injuntions to meditate generally of the sort of sucessive objectification as in Br.Up. II.iv.11. Of course this process would lead to samadhi but that is not mentioned, it is rather the practice than the goal that is emphasised. Insight through the analytic erosion of ignorance/avidya is the sadhana enjoined. So then, is it theoretically possible that one could become enlightened without ever having 'experienced' samadhi? A fortiori there would be still less need of lights, sounds and visions or any of the son et lumiere of la vie spirituelle. For those navigators of the cool, pellucid head waters of the Upper Vedanta this may be so but further downstream I do not repudiated the occasional go I have been given at the psychic pickle tray. I notice this: glow, glimmer, glitter, glisten - all those sounds in English have been traced back by linguists through the ancient tongues back to the putative original language Indo-European. The 'gl' root always relates to the flash of light. We seem to be led to primeval origins of seed sounds or those first utterances of a hominid that now can reflect the consciousness which is all pervasive and constituitive. Complexity of brain and central nervous system must play a part. The insoluble puzzle for evolutionary theory is that consciousness could emerge at a certain level of complexity. It is unthinkable that consciousness could begin so this atemporal nature gives rise to the occasional uncanny experience. So what is the state of the Jivanmukti? I incline to the combination view that you offer in your excellent introduction. The paradoxical thing about those who are plunged in impersonal reality is that they are all very individual characters. Best Wishes, Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Namaste Michaelji, In Shankara's BSB bhashya 2:3:39, Samadhi is seen in a different light. For your comments. best regards, K Kathirasan > > ombhurbhuva [sMTP:ombhurbhuva] > Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:59 PM > advaitin > Is there 'light' in Enlightenment? > > Namaste Madathil, > In B.S.B. II.i.9 I find this (directed to it by an > article in Philosophy East and West by Michael Comans > on the differing emphasis on samadhi in Sankara's > commentary on the priniciple Upanishads and later > vedanta eg.Vivekananada): > "As in natural slumber and samadhi (absorption in > divine consciousness), though there is a natural > eradication of differences, still owing to the > persistence of the unreal nescience, differences occur > over again when one wakes up ...." > > Comans points out that there is no direct talk about > samadhi in these upanishads and in the commentary there > is likewise no mention of it. There are injuntions to > meditate generally of the sort of sucessive > objectification as in Br.Up. II.iv.11. Of course this > process would lead to samadhi but that is not > mentioned, it is rather the practice than the goal that > is emphasised. Insight through the analytic erosion of > ignorance/avidya is the sadhana enjoined. > > So then, is it theoretically possible that one could > become enlightened without ever having 'experienced' > samadhi? A fortiori there would be still less need of > lights, sounds and visions or any of the son et lumiere > of la vie spirituelle. > > For those navigators of the cool, pellucid head waters > of the Upper Vedanta this may be so but further > downstream I do not repudiated the occasional go I have > been given at the psychic pickle tray. I notice this: > glow, glimmer, glitter, glisten - all those sounds in > English have been traced back by linguists through the > ancient tongues back to the putative original language > Indo-European. The 'gl' root always relates to the > flash of light. We seem to be led to primeval origins > of seed sounds or those first utterances of a hominid > that now can reflect the consciousness which is all > pervasive and constituitive. Complexity of brain and > central nervous system must play a part. The insoluble > puzzle for evolutionary theory is that consciousness > could emerge at a certain level of complexity. It is > unthinkable that consciousness could begin so this > atemporal nature gives rise to the occasional uncanny > experience. > > So what is the state of the Jivanmukti? I incline to > the combination view that you offer in your excellent > introduction. The paradoxical thing about those who > are plunged in impersonal reality is that they are all > very individual characters. > > Best Wishes, Michael. > > > > > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of > Atman and Brahman. > Advaitin List Archives available at: > http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin > Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages > > > > Your use of is subject to > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Namaste Michael. Thank you for your brilliant post. I enjoyed the pickle on the tray with my borderline hypertension. In fact, in my current state as an aspirant advaitin, I come by a lot of pickle. I don't prohibit the 'experiencer' in me from lapping all that up. There definitely is a lot of enjoyment in it. I see the basics of Soundarya Lahari in the pickle I get. Yet, I keep reminding myself times without number: "Boy, raise your eyes and look up while you lap up the delicacies. Don't get yourself drowned in them. Ask yourself who enjoys the pickle.". That is the irresistible inner call from the cool, pellucid waters! Bhaskarji, had asked a question about the dream state. Do you have anything to say from your solid anchor on Sankara BhASya? PraNAms and best wishes. Madathil Nair ______________ advaitin, ombhurbhuva <ombhurbhuva@e...> wrote: > So then, is it theoretically possible that one could > become enlightened without ever having 'experienced' > samadhi? A fortiori there would be still less need of > lights, sounds and visions or any of the son et lumiere > of la vie spirituelle. > > For those navigators of the cool, pellucid head waters > of the Upper Vedanta this may be so but further > downstream I do not repudiated the occasional go I have > been given at the psychic pickle tray. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Namaste Ramlalji and all. Ramlalji, I believe you should have told the Members about your having been rechristened by Ammachi. I am doing that on your behalf, anticipating your permission. Ramlalji is none other than our Shivramdasji who had posted a number of very enlightening posts on this forum before. Thank you for bringing in Ammachi. She was very much in my mind when I wrote the lead post. Her biography says that She was enlightened when the Devi descended into Her corporeal being as a massive mass of brilliance (I am just recalling what I read long back and may not be using the exact words). She is Soundarya Lahari personified. She is just a primary school drop out. But speak to Her, you will realize that She is an ocean of knowledge. Every word She speaks in simple Malayalam has the ring of advaita. This, coupled with Her superhuman patience with the millions of devotees who throng Her presence for whom all She has a loving hug and some kind words to say, is the main reason why I see the Universal Mother in Her. We ought to bring in such personages into this discussion and think aloud about what could have happened to them in Enlightenment. I am very happy that Mother's dear son Ramlalji has raised this topic. May Mother encourage others to follow suit and grace this debate. This is an area where Michael can also contribute going by what he had written before about his spiritual errands in India. Michael, can you please look at the experiences of these spiritual personages as an advaitin rooted in Sankara BhASya? Thanks and PraNAms Ramlalji. Madathil Nair _ -- In advaitin, Ramlal <conte@i...> wrote: > However, I have been rethinking my estimate of these phenomena in the > light of some more recent and much more interesting experiences which > commenced at my last darshan with Holy Mother Amritanandamyai Devi. After > leaving her arms I sat down and closed my eyes to meditate. To my > surprise I noticed that the familiar overhead indigo-violet circle or > crown of light which I've observed for years during meditation had > suddenly turned a brilliant bluish-white, had elongated upward, and had > taken on a shaft-like quality. And the center of consciousness or > awareness, which I typically experience lodging somewhere between my ears, > was now located at the upper extremity of the light, i.e., about 1 1/2 > feet or .5 metres above the top of my head. This novel impression has > persisted in my meditation over the course of the past two months, and the > character of my meditation has also changed, becoming more silent and > acquiring a certain ethereal, timeless, and out-of-body quality. > > Thus it is with considerable personal interest that I am following the > erudite discussions of our learned Advaitins, to all of whom I offer my > humble PraNAms. > Aum Amriteshvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Namaste all, Sorry if this appears twice but I posted it earlier today but it disappeared. Maybe the gods saw it was a waste of space. --- Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy wrote: >To take it literally > is missing > the point altogether. We use the word 'light' when > something > positive dawns on the person. When we say tamasomA > jyotirgamaya > (lead us from darkness to brightness), it is said in > a metaphorical > sense only with the meaning being lead us from > blinding ignorance > to the light of Knowledge. There is no literal > 'light of the > thousand Suns' in enlightenment. > > The vedA-s are full of such metaphorical statements. > Some > examples are "sahasrashIrShA puruShaH..." , "aum > ityetad > aksharaM..", IshAvAsya mantra-3, bhagavadgItA 11.12 > and > so on. > > If we are looking for an experience of literal > extreme > brightness on enlightenment, I think we are on the > wrong > track. Namaste all, With respect, can we get rid of the use of 'literal' alongside metaphor in this instance. Literally the answer to 'Is there LIGHT in enLIGHTenment' is of course there is. Just as there is 'YOT in jYOTi'. QED; literally speaking. Let us take another example: 'upasana'. Literally we may take this as approaching some physical form of a deity in our daily worship. But this has a limited effect as it is enclosed in the physical parameters of the worshipper's intention. ( I have in front of me a very scholarly study by Griswold on the RgVeda which must have taken years of research but he cannot progress beyond the physical clouds and lightning etc.) However we may take upasana as a mental approaching through the use of a mantra or some other technique. Again the parameters may entrap in the now metaphorical use of the word 'drawing near' as we are still ignorant of Self. If done with sincerity these upasanas will lead to the realisation that as Absolute is all pervading, the word 'upasana' is now redundant yet it has served its purpose for all levels of meaning were held in it in the first instance but initiation was needed. We are now in the region of ineffability which is both transcendent while being immanent; That One becoming 'many' while remaining That One, without breath but breathing by its own power. That is why my original challenge to the use of metaphor was posted and I included in that posting Yaska's words and Durgacharya's commentary on those words describing the use of adhibhautika and adhidaivika and adhiatmika understanding of the Vedic use of Sun in 'direct experience.' Adhibhautic: regarding the external world Adhidaivic: regarding divine beings Adhiyatmic: regarding spiritual truths (see Yaska’s nirukta; yajnadaivate pushpaphale devatadhyAtme vA) Professor Krishnamurthy's recent posting I believe to reflect this succinctly. When he enjoins us to 'tear apart' his meaning he is asking us to tear apart that which is 'partless'............. unless we take him literally. I think that much or our present dialogue points to why our wise teachers from the past sought out a fourth (level) turiya when they started trying to work back from the many to That One to aid in the teaching of the uninitiated Maybe I am still missing the point but as a point has no dimension, .................... There is something strange going on here as I do not usually join in these discussions. You all move too quickly for me as I am often struggling to look up Sunder's quotes while you all gallop off over the horizon. However I keep opening books for other studies and unexpectedly finding relevant material for this topic. Therefore, please forgive the length of tbis post but below is an extract from 'Consciousness in Advaita Vedanta' by William Indich. It is directly on this topic and is a good summary of our discussion for those who would like a summary. I make no comment on the content and also hope that I have picked up most of the scanning errors: Happy Study ken knight CONSCIOUSNESS IN ADVAITA VEDANTA by William Indic 36-40 Having discussed Shankara’s central objections to attempts to define the ontological nature of consciousness and the self and to explain the relationship between them in terms of the traditional categories of Indian philosophical thought, we conclude once again that consciousness is essentially one, homogeneous and unqualified for Advaita Vedãnta. Given this ontology of consciousness, it now remains to be seen how the Advaitic tradition deals with the epistemology of eternally self-revealing reality, i.e., with the question of how consciousness reveals itself. Advaitic thinkers have sought to support the ontological autonomy of self-revealing, absolute consciousness by endowing it with a parallel and unique epistemological nature, called self-luminosity (svaprakAShatva, svataH prakAShatva). The doctrine of the self-luminosity of consciousness, as interpreted by Advaitins, guarantees the priority of absolute consciousness, both as the ground (adhishThAna) and the eternal witness (sAkshin) of all manifestation.’ According to this doctrine, the self-revelation of consciousness consists in the fact that consciousness illumines or lights everything, including itself. The doctrine of self-luminosity thus provides the Advaitin with the means of transcending the intentional functioning of modified or empirical consciousness. involving the distinction between the knowing subject and the object known. For while empirical cognition consists in the apprehension of an object by a subject, self-luminous transcendental consciousness is neither an object nor a subject and is known solely by means of itself. In this sense, Brahman knowledge, or the self-revelation of consciousness, is completely self-caused or autonomous, and eternally known, or indubitable. In order to emphasize the autonomous and indubitable nature of absolute consciousness, Citsukha, a thirteenth century Advaitin. has defined self-luminosity as “the capacity of being called immediately known in empirical usage while not being an object of cognition.” (Citsukha, Tatt va-pradIpikA. ed. by Pt. R. K. Sastri, p. 9.) The first part of this definition indicates that the self-luminosity of absolute consciousness does not limit consciousness as a quality would. Rather, consciousness is not the locus of the absolute absence of immediacy, i.e., of an external source of awareness, and is thercfore autonomous. The second part of the definition distinguishes the immediacy applicable to absolute consciousness from the immediacy characteristic of empirical perception, i.e., non-dualistic from dualistic immediacy, and therefore asserts that consciousness is never remote from, or in doubt about, its own self~awareness. (Cf. V. A. Sharma, Citsukha’s Contribution to advaita pp. 41-55.) The basic point behind the Advaitic doctrine of self-luminosity is that consciousness is a light which illuminates itself and everything else at once. Strictly speaking, of course, this doctrine rests on the metaphorical use of light to convey the unitary and undifferentiated intelligence which characterizes absolute consciousness or the Self. And there is a considerable amount of Upanshadic precedent for the Advaitic reliance upon this particular metaphorical description of consciousness. To cite just a few examples: ‘The Self (utmost). indeed, is his light ... for with the Self, indeed, as his light one sits, moves, does his work, and returns’ ( Brihadaranyaka Upanisad 4.3.6. a. 4.4.16., KaushitakI Upanisad 2.5.15) ‘Now, the light which shines higher than this heaven .... verily. that is the same as this light which is here within a person. (Chandogya Upanishad 3.13.7. Cf. 3.14.2.) ‘The sun shines not there, nor the moon and stars. These lightnings shine not., much less this (earthly) fire ! After Him, as he shines, doth everything shine. This whole world is illumined with His light.’ (Katha Upanishad 5.15., repeated at Mundaka Upanishad 2.2.9-10., Svetasvitara Upanishad 6.14.) Of the bright power that pervades the sky it is only a portion which, rising in the midst of the sun, becomes the two light-rays. That is the knower of unity, the Eternal Real. ... That is the immortal. That is the realm of Brahman. That is th’ ocean of light.’ (Maitri Upanishad 6.35) Shankara picks up this metaphor in the course of his exposition and defense of Advaitic philosophy. His most vocal opponents on this point were those realists, including the Naiyayikas and the Mimñttisist, Kumarila Bhatta, who wished to deny the epistemologically privileged position which the doctrine of self-luminosity bestows on consciousness. However, even these thinkers were not opposed to treating consciousness as a light as long as it was made clear that consciousness as light only illumines other objects and not itself (paraprakASha). Against this position then, Sankara upholds the principle of self-luminous consciousness on the analogy of the sun, which illumines itself as well as everything else. So Brahman being the only self-luminous entity beyond the sun and moon etc., everything that exists and shines does so on account of the light of Brahman. It manifests everything but it is not manifested or perceived by any other light. (BSSB 1.3.22) And the conclusion derived from this doctrine, which the realist finds so unacceptable, is that : ‘There being nothing else but the Atman, what should he see or know in particular, except being eternally aware of himself? The Atman therefore is eternally conscious of itself.’ (BSSB 2.3.18) However, it is apparent that even the metaphor of light for consciousness breaks down in the face of the Advaitic claim that ultimately, there is nothing other than transcendental and undifferentiated awareness of Self. This point is brought home in the context of Sankara’s criticisms of the vijnanavada theory of self-luminous consciousness, which portrayed consciousness as a lamp that lights its objects and itself at the same time. Shankara objects that any self-luminous physical object, such as a lamp, or the sun, is objectified by its own light and thus becomes an object of illumination, just like all the objects illuminated by it.’ ( Brihad. S.B. 4.3.7., pp. 619-20. It is interesting to note that Sankara clarifies his objections to the light metaphor in the context of his criticisms of the VijnanavAda school, although it is clear that Shankara’s sun objectifies itself just as much as the Vijnanavadin’s lamp. Further. the Upanishads themselves use the lamp to portray the tight metaphor, and the lamp was picked up by later Advaitins as well, Cf. discussion of the comparison of witness intelligence to the light on a dramatic stage (Natakadipa) In Staal. ‘Advaita and Neoplatonism pp. 1034, and Mahadevan The Panchadasi. .. pp. 187-88.) Absolute consciousness, on the other hand, is immaterial and therefore is never perceived by the sense organs, and in particular by the eye.’ (Brihad. S.B. 4.3.6.. p. 602.) In this sense, the ‘self-luminosity” of absolute consciousness is unique because the consciousness illuminated is identical with, and never an object of, intelligence, while all other entities and non-entities are objectifiable, and therefore distinct from consciousness itself. In addition to the particular objection to the light metaphor offered by Sankara, it is clear that there are other, and perhaps more serious, objections to it. However, since many Western thinkers also found in light an appropriate means to convey something significant about the nature of consciousness, we will review their treatment of this metaphor before entertaining the additional criticisms against it. The light metaphor has long had an important and even predominant place in Western treatments of consciousness. Beginning with Plato and Aristotle, and continuing through the Neoplatonists to Medieval Christian thinking and seventeenth century Rationalism, this metaphor has been used to focus attention on the intelligible nature of the universe as well as on the capacity of the rational mind to have knowledge of reality. Let us look at three of the earliest examples of the use of this metaphor. Our first example is taken from Plato, who speaks in the Republic about the Form of the Good, which is the supreme Form of divine Reason and thus the highest possible object of knowledge for the individual soul (psyche) or consciousness. Plato proceeds to liken this Form of ihe Good, as the cause of intelligence and intelligible objects, to the sun whose light is the cause of vision and of visible things. (Plato Republic 502-509c) Note that the light of divine Reason, in Plato’s analogy, not only accounts for the power by which the soul knows but also is the source of the existence and essence of the Forms themselves. In our second example, Aristotle uses the light metaphor to emphasize the causal, or active dimension of mind (nous). He says that the active intellect makes knowledge possible, just as light makes vision possible when, for example, it changes potential colors into actual colors. (Aristotle, de Anima 3.5) Finally, Plotinus’ transcendental One, which is beyond intellectual activity but neither unintelligent nor unconscious, is likened to the sun in the sense that both the One and the sun are said to illuminate the universe while remaining entirely undiminished in the process. Plotinus, Enneads VI.9(9), Ch.9.) This particular use of the analogy between the sun and the One, which represents Plotinus’ development of the analogy in Plato’s Republic, is the closest to the Advaitic use of the light metaphor that we find in Western philosophy. The following objections have been offered against the use of light as a metaphor for consciousness. It has been argued that a causal, productive or creative relationship is suggested between consciousness and the world by the notion that the illuminating activity of consciousness populates the world with existents just as the light and warmth of the sun nourish the emergence of life on earth. Another objection has been lodged against the fact that sunlight is indifferent in lighting whatever is before it, while consciousness is highly selective with regard to the content and forms of which it is aware. Thirdly, while proponents of the light metaphor have implied a universal conscious substance which is peaceful, pure and homogeneous, others have objected that consciousness evolves and is adaptable to change. Following from the theory of universal, creative consciousness arise two further objections to whom does this universal consciousness belong; and what role does individual experience play in the formation and functioning of consciousness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Dear Sri Ken: It seems that the 'Gods' wanted it to appear twice and that may explain why posted it twice! Also the 'light' of Sun also appears everyday as though it rises in the morning and disappears in the evening! Literally speaking: what is 'space'? what is 'today'? what is 'gods'? what did appear and disappear? Our limitations may be the cause for the confusion. Any explanation that we provide requires a 'point of reference' that clears some doubts and instantaneously introduce doubts on the very 'point of reference.' Our doubts will disappear only when we regain our wisdom to dissolve all 'points of references.' Until then, we do need to hang and hold on with the incomplete and inappropriate 'literal' meaning! Warmest regards, Ram Chandran Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, ken knight <hilken_98@Y...> wrote: > Namaste all, > > Sorry if this appears twice but I posted it earlier > today but it disappeared. Maybe the gods saw it was a > waste of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair> wrote: > Namaste Ramlalji and all. > > Ramlalji, I believe you should have told the Members about your > having been rechristened by Ammachi. I am doing that on your behalf, > anticipating your permission. > > Ramlalji is none other than our Shivramdasji who had posted a number > of very enlightening posts on this forum before. > > Thank you for bringing in Ammachi. She was very much in my mind when > I wrote the lead post. Her biography says that She was enlightened > when the Devi descended into Her corporeal being as a massive mass of > brilliance (I am just recalling what I read long back and may not be > using the exact words). She is Soundarya Lahari personified. > > She is just a primary school drop out. But speak to Her, you will > realize that She is an ocean of knowledge. Every word She speaks in > simple Malayalam has the ring of advaita. friends, pl read this. The role of spiritual guides CHENNAI SEPT. 4. While God will not make His appearance to human beings directly He has delegated His powers and responsibilities to a select few who, by virtue of their austerities and pure life, are in a position to advise those who come to them and guide them on to the path of spirituality. They are called by different names but all will know them as "Guru". God sends them whenever world needs them, when men pass through difficult times and when they face problems, which they are unable to solve. Each one of these qualified and enlightened "Gurus" has perceived and realised God. Their task is to make the minds of those who seek their help pure. Just as men need food, the life of every person has to be closely associated with such a spiritual guide. The first duty of these pious men is to inculcate the spirit of devotion, the first step in the ladder of religious pursuit. As there is progress in a disciple who approaches them they will teach them one of the advanced "sadhanas" or exercises — "silence", which leads them to enjoy God inside. When all external oscillations cease that which is steady and unmoving within stands revealed. Swami Omkarananda (head of the Omkara Ashram) said in a lecture that in the past even the kings would heed the advice of the "Raja Guru". The world today longs for peace and harmony. Over the past several decades, attempts were made to achieve these two. The solution lies in knowing the nature of each individual. Peace does not mean an arid or barren state of existence. It implies contentment, eternal bliss and terrestrial happiness. In old days "Siddhars" expounded the highest philosophy of spiritual life and they guided men and elevated them to higher consciousness. Chanting the "Omkara" (Om) regularises the breath and fetches tranquillity of mind, when self-discipline will become possible. The spiritual leader stands as it were on the threshold of immortality, and bending down, raises the struggling individuals. Materialistic happiness is perishable, leaving grief in its trail. The Guru infuses moral strength in aspirants and awakens the dormant power within them. It is necessary for those who desire to tread the religious path to surrender themselves at the feet of the Gurus and follow their instructions. copy right; The hindu daily. mr nair, i want to ask you can we call all godmens as avatara's like you said about ammachi? they may be siddha's who by powers aquired by thapas doing good for humanity. even Sri Ramana did thapas and had powers. also Sadguru Gnanandagiri of thapovanam in thirukkovilur who was an expert hata yogi. he never claimed to be god. so we have to only appreciate the good works done by ammachi and continue on our spiritual path. pranams cdr b vaidyanathan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 advaitin, "cdr b vaidyanathan" <vaidyanathiyer> wrote: > advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" > <madathilnair> wrote: > > Namaste Ramlalji and all. > > > > Ramlalji, I believe you should have told the Members about your > > having been rechristened by Ammachi. I am doing that on your > behalf, > > anticipating your permission. > > > > Ramlalji is none other than our Shivramdasji who had posted a > number > > of very enlightening posts on this forum before. > > > > Thank you for bringing in Ammachi. She was very much in my mind > when > > I wrote the lead post. Her biography says that She was enlightened > > when the Devi descended into Her corporeal being as a massive mass > of > > brilliance (I am just recalling what I read long back and may not > be > > using the exact words). She is Soundarya Lahari personified. > > > > She is just a primary school drop out. But speak to Her, you will > > realize that She is an ocean of knowledge. Every word She speaks > in > > simple Malayalam has the ring of advaita. > > friends, > pl read this. > The role of spiritual guides Namaste, I have visited with Ammachi or Amma as she now likes to be known on several occasions in different countries. I found the atmosphere around her to be charged with devotee's energy, especially with group chanting of ONS...Om Namah Sivaya. The most positive thing about her is there is no bad press and she does good work and really helps people, sacrificing her own body in the process. She sometimes has to wear a brace due to arthritis from hugging so many people. The only thing I felt a little disturbed at was the amount of money raising and the overpricing etc. 20 rupee bangles for US$50.00 etc etc. I know it goes to a good cause but it did unsettle me a little. Here is Amma's description of her whatever??? Ananda Veethi. The Divine Mother with bright, gentle, hands, Caressed my head, With bowed head, I told Mother, That my life is dedicated to Her. Smiling, She became a Divine Effulgence, And merged in me, My mind blosomed, Bathed in the many-hued Light of Divinity, And the events of millions of years gone by, Rose up within me, Thenceforth, Seeing nothing as separate from my own Self, A Single Unity, and merging in the Divine Mother, I renounced all sense of enjoyment. IMO this seems to be a description of a Savikalpa Samadhi as opposed to a Moksha. However as only a Jivanmukta can recognise another I can make no final comment. Except to say Amma is a force for good in a world needing it. I notice a lot of her devotees are women, who have had bad sexual experiences with men, assaults, abuse etc. Also many of her dovotees are those that have left famous gurus who have been compromised by sexual accusations and fraud. So she is the Mother to come home to for succour. AS she is really a point of concentration for Dvaita rather than Advaita, I am not a devotee as such, but I do use her bhajans before my meditations for helping prepare myself etc.....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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