Is there Light in Enlightenment?

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Nairji,

 

I entirely agree with you. Intellectual appreciation is something and

assimilation of the Knowledge is entirely a different thing.

 

What I wanted to convey was that the problem involved is ignorance and knowledge

alone can help in “removal” of the ignorance. And, self-knowledge, rather

removal of self-ignorance can take place only through Teaching, as it is

Atheendriyam. “The lot to do” mentioned by you is – as Jagadguru Sri Adi

Shankaracharya said, “tat chinthanam, tat kadhanam, tat parasparabodhanam”

(i.e. thinking of that, talking about that and mutually eaching/understanding

about that), which alone will help towards the assimilation of the knowledge and

I must say, in this connection, our elec. forum is doing a great service to the

students of Vedanta, like me.

 

Your example of Glow-worm is excellent. However, *The effective removal of that

feeling of `outsideness'

 

without a trace is therefore Enlightenment or Self-realization*, - is it

necessary or is it possible so long as one lives? Is it not “Udaseenatha” about

the so-called “outsideness” that takes place on the assimilation of

self-knowledge? I may be wrong, but when you know that you are in fact

“dreaming” what is the necessity of effective removal of what is happening in

that “dream”? Would you not rather enjoy that dream? Even if one is re-born what

difference it makes to him so long as he revels in that knowledge?

 

It reminds me of a story that I heard. One morning one Master was found laughing

by his disciples. When asked why he was laughing, he said he had a dream last

night. What does it matter, we all dream every night, said the disciples. The

master said, that is not the point, in my dream a butterfly came. So what, in

our dreams we also see butterflies, elephants and so many things, said the

disciples. The master said laughing, the point is, did in my dream the butterfly

came or I was in the dream of the butterfly? That is what confuses me and makes

me laugh! Can anyone throw some light to his doubt? Do you dream or are you a

role or part of some other’s dream? “I am not what I think I am, I am also not

what I think I am not”. Then, “Who or what am I?” The answer lies in

Enlightenment and we only can pray “Lead kindly Light amidst the encircling

gloom, lead Thou me on, The night is dark and I am far from home, lead Thou me

on”. The Light in Enlightenment is this “Light”, as it alone can

lead one to his “home”.

 

In absolute sense (?) (it is neither a sense nor a state, as it is the whole or

Poornam within which all states, senses etc, play)) there is neither ignorance

nor its removal, as all are at the Mithya level only, which is again within that

Poornam. However, if we talk of Absolute Sense (?), where is the need for any

teaching, as who is teaching and who is listening!

 

With kind regards to all group members

 

R.S.Mani

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Maniji.

 

That is brilliant. You touched on the practicable side of the

question.

 

Maniji:

> Your example of Glow-worm is excellent. However, *The effective

removal of that feeling of `outsideness' without a trace is

therefore Enlightenment or Self-realization*, - is it necessary or is

it possible so long as one lives? Is it not "Udaseenatha" about the

so-called "outsideness" that takes place on the assimilation of self-

knowledge? I may be wrong, but when you know that you are in

fact "dreaming" what is the necessity of effective removal of what is

happening in that "dream"? Would you not rather enjoy that dream?

Even if one is re-born what difference it makes to him so long as he

revels in that knowledge?

 

Nair:

 

Well. I didn't mean any deliberateness about it. I am very

comfortable with 'udAsInatA' in its vEdantic sense. The glow-worm

revels in its glow when Knowledge takes place. It then ceases to be

an 'earthworm'. That is the 'effective removal' I meant. Please

remember I was only trying to answer Benji's subject vs. objects.

Besides, the feeling that I have a lot to do only implies

that 'udAsInatA' has not still fully blossomed.

 

 

Maniji:

> It reminds me of a story that I heard. One morning one Master was

found laughing by his disciples. When asked why he was laughing, he

said he had a dream last night. What does it matter, we all dream

every night, said the disciples. The master said, that is not the

point, in my dream a butterfly came. So what, in our dreams we also

see butterflies, elephants and so many things, said the disciples.

The master said laughing, the point is, did in my dream the butterfly

came or I was in the dream of the butterfly? That is what confuses me

and makes me laugh! Can anyone throw some light to his doubt? Do you

dream or are you a role or part of some other's dream?

 

Nair:

 

Yes. That is a beautiful story and we had it narrated here before by

Venkatji. When pUrnamidam is understood, then we can't help laughing

out aloud like the Master of the story.

 

Maniji:

> In absolute sense (?) (it is neither a sense nor a state, as it is

the whole or Poornam within which all states, senses etc, play))

there is neither ignorance nor its removal, as all are at the Mithya

level only, which is again within that Poornam. However, if we talk

of Absolute Sense (?), where is the need for any teaching, as who is

teaching and who is listening!

 

Nair:

 

Quite right, Sir. I have laboured to convey this same feeling in my

comments to Dennisji today.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair