Why or how to remove Anatma to “experience” self?

September 26, 2003

Namaste,

Pardon me for my arrogance, but I thought I would share my little understanding

with the learned members of the group, with regard to some of the postings in

the forum.

(As a matter of fact, there can't be any results from Self-realization.)

If there is no result from self-realization, why all the study and even this

forum? There is definitely a result, but it is not like a result of any other

action. Such results are time bound, as the action leading to such results is

within time. The result of self-knowledge, as declared by the Upanishads, is

“apnoti swarajyam” “ashnuthe sarvan Kaman saha” “apnoti param” “tarati shokam”,

etc. etc. A self-realized person i.e. the enlightened jeeva always rest in the

most desired inner peace, although very much participating in all activities.

The internal peace is the result of such a person. His attitude towards him and

others, including God changes. He is not fooled by the dream going on, as he

has the knowledge that, although he is not dreaming, what is going is only a

dream.

(The crux of the problem is that we all want to *experience* Self-realization

and we all expect a *result*.)

There is no action without expecting a result. Even Lord Krishna while teaching

Arjuna expected that Arjuna should understand what he was teaching about.

Although there is no action required for any knowledge to take place, the

knowledge, that has taken place in one, leads to some result, and self-knowledge

is no exception. The only difference is, there is “vyabhicharitwam (possibility

of change) in the case of other knowledge, as they are mostly notions, and

therefore, result can also change, but Self-Knowledge, being Absolute Knowledge,

i.e. not relative, and not subject to vyabhicharitwam, the result also is

Absolute and not subject to change later on.

As far as experience is concerned, what we all experience is Self only,

although, “asti, bhati, priyam” (Sat, Chit, Anand), appearing in different names

and shapes (nama and roopa). Children run after different shapes of chocolates

like car shaped, egg shaped, etc. but when they eat, they only enjoy the

chocolate, although they may say, I am enjoying a car, or an egg etc. An adult

does not bother what is the shape of the chocolate, he knows whatever maybe the

shape, it is actually chocolate. This example may look quite silly, but for a

self-realized person, nama and roopa are not important, and what he is looking

for, rather what he sees is only Asti, Bhati, Priyam, and he knows that is the

substratum for all. The words Anatma or Mityha etc. are used while unfolding the

Self, only for the purpose of right understanding of that Self, which is always

Prasidham, i.e. well known, Heyam and Upadeyam that which cannot accepted or

rejected, Praptam, always available. because it is actually

“I” the Consciousness or Awareness. We cannot be Conscious of the

Consciousness, nor aware of the awareness, as it is self-effulgent, and because

of which all get their effulgence. So, there is no special experience required

to know Consciousness or Awareness, rather it is not possible.

Swami Chinmayanand used to say “your, (Narayana’s) Narayana wife, brings

Narayana vegetable, cuts it with Narayana knife, cooks with Narayana knowledge,

in Narayana Pot with Narayana water, in a Narayana Oven, and serves to you,

Narayana, and you Narayana enjoys the Narayana food”. This means the Tripudi

i.e. Experiencer, (or knower), experienced (or known) and the experience (or

knowledge) are all that Self only, for a self-realized person this difference of

the three is only apparent, and therefore, he is not bothered by the Tripudi,

and with this recognition he conducts his activities like any other person, and

although dwaita appears to be there, without which no action is possible, but

that does not bother him.

With kind regards, Hari Om

Mani

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September 26, 2003

Namaste Shri Mani-ji,

You said:

" There is no action without expecting a result. Even Lord Krishna while

teaching Arjuna expected that Arjuna should understand what he was teaching

about. "

Please read Gita2.47 - "karmaNyEvAdhi ..."

Is Lord Krishna asking us to do the impossible?

You said:

" Although there is no action required for any knowledge to take place, the

knowledge, that has taken place in one, leads to some result, and

self-knowledge is no exception."

A result of an action is something which does not exist while the action is

performed.

The results starts when the action end.

If Self-realization is a result of sAdhana, then it ought to have a

beginning.

If it has a beginning, it invariably has an end.

So does Self-Realization has a beginning and an end?

I agree to your other remarks.