Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Dear Friends, This quote from J. Krishnamurti was posted on another list today and I wanted to repost it here: Ojai , California Tuesday , April 19 , 1983 .................................... That which is immeasurable cannot be measured by words. We are always trying to put the immeasurable into a frame of words , and the symbol is not the actual. But we worship the symbol , therefore we always live in a limited state. So with the clouds hanging on the tree tops and all the birds quiet , waiting for the thunderstorm , this is a good morning to be serious , to question the whole of existence , to question the very gods and all human activity. Our lives are so short and during that short period there is nothing to learn about the whole field of the psyche , which is the movement of memory ; we can only observe it. Observe without any movement of thought ,observe without time , without past knowledge, without the observer who is the essence of the past . Just watch . Watch those clouds shaping and reshaping , watch the trees , the little birds. It is all part of life . When you watch attentively , with diligence , there is nothing to learn ; there is only that vast space , silence and emptiness , which is all-consuming energy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Krishnamurti Krishnamurti to Himself His Last Journal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Michael - I must say there are lot of words in the quote of JK that which words cannot describe. Vedanta says in much simpler words - consciousness is brahman and you are that. Hari OM! Sadananda --- Michael Bowes <rmichaelbowes wrote: > Dear Friends, > > This quote from J. Krishnamurti was posted on another > list today and I wanted to repost it here: > > Ojai , California > Tuesday , April 19 , 1983 > > > ................................... > > > That which is immeasurable cannot be measured by > words. We are always trying to put > the immeasurable into a frame of words , and the > symbol is not the actual. But we worship > the symbol , therefore we always live in a limited > state. > > So with the clouds hanging on the tree tops and all > the birds quiet , waiting for the > thunderstorm , this is a good morning to be serious , > to question the whole of > existence , to question the very gods and all human > activity. Our lives are so short > and during that short period there is nothing to learn > about the whole field of the > psyche , which is the movement of memory ; we can only > observe it. Observe > without any movement of thought ,observe without time > , without past knowledge, > without the observer who is the essence of the past . > Just watch . Watch those clouds > shaping and reshaping , watch the trees , the little > birds. It is all part of life . > When you watch attentively , with diligence , there is > nothing to learn ; there is > only that vast space , silence and emptiness , which > is all-consuming energy. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > J. Krishnamurti > Krishnamurti to Himself > His Last Journal > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > The New with improved product search > > ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada> wrote: > Michael - I must say there are lot of words in the quote of JK that > which words cannot describe. Vedanta says in much simpler words - > consciousness is brahman and you are that. > Hari OM! > Sadananda > Namaste sir, Or even simpler words: "Be... Still..." :-) Aum Namah Shivaya Shishya > > --- Michael Bowes <rmichaelbowes> wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > > > This quote from J. Krishnamurti was posted on another > > list today and I wanted to repost it here: > > > > Ojai , California > > Tuesday , April 19 , 1983 > > > > > > ............................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Here is how TRUTH is perceived by others: -- Hegel observed: "The human mind moves dialectically, constantly embracing an ever increasing scope of reality discovering the truth of anything only after discovering its relation, to the whole, to the Idea." Aristotle said: "The knowledge of Soul contributes greatly to advance truth in general, and above all, to our understanding of Nature." Augustine on Truth: The origin of truth was not of as much concern for Augustine as was the issue of the certainty of our ideas. For Augustine, humans and their "mind" was constructed in such a way that they see the physical and eternal truths by means of two different lights. The corporeal or sun light allows the eyes to see physical things around us while the eternal truths (such as mathematical truths), are seen through a certain "incorporeal light" of a unique kind. More precisely, Augustine's "doctrine of Illumination" states: "There is present in us the light of eternal reason, in which light the immutable truths are seen." Just as birds and bees exist in the dark but are seen only when the light of the sun shines on them (a physical truth), Augustine believed that the eternal truths pre-exist and that the divine light performs the same kind of function, as does sunlight. In other words, the divine light is not the source of eternal truth but rather a means to recognize those truths: it allows our judgment to perceive certain ideas that contain eternal truth. God and Eternal Truth After his deep involvement in sensual pleasures with two mistresses, Augustine realized that the pleasures of flesh and sensations are not the way for the "soul" to find peace. Since he also had the experience of knowing certain truths that seemed to him eternal (e.g. Beauty and mathematics), it occurred to Augustine that the activities of "mind" are the ones that leave a more lasting and profound mark than those of the physical body. What touched Augustine the most was the fact that the human "mind" is capable of gaining knowledge beyond its capacity and that this "knowledge-beyond" does not come from the finite things we see. Nor was it a creation of the "mind" - rather, Augustine found it essential that the source of "knowledge-beyond" or immutable truth or eternal truth, be God. This also led Augustine to the conclusion that eternal truths pre-exist. Bhagavad Gita: The unreal has no being: there is no non-being of the real. The true understanding about being/non-being and real/unreal comes only to those who are close to the Truth. "Brahma" is the eternal Truth and therefore imperishable. ----------------------- Dave Anand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 --- Shishya <sanatana_shishya wrote: > Namaste sir, > > Or even simpler words: > > "Be... Still..." > > :-) > > Aum Namah Shivaya > Shishya Shishya, you do not need words for one to be silent. We do not need shaastra for that if that is all needed. Shaastra becomes a pramaaNa only in the sense the consciousness that I am is the total and there is nothing other than consciousness. That teaching does not come by being silent - it comes by enquiry with a mind that is prepared. The problem with JK analysis is, to be one with the universe by observing the mind as sadhana is O.K to say but one needs a knowledge. Being one with the universe can happen, but I am that one is to be understood too. Hence I put two of the four mahavaakyas of the Veda-s - Consciousness is Brahman and you are that. The rest of the two mahavaakya-s constitute assertion of that fact when one is one with the universe. Jk is good to read but how many you find in this world that say that they have followed JK (by the by he himself does not want any one to follow him too!)and then realized. You may find lot more seekers following Bhagavaan Ramana since even though he was silent most of the time, he was pushing enquiry of ones own self - using scriptures as pramaaNa. To oberserve the mind one should have the detachment to observe. That is the vairaagya and for that there is a path - yoga. Krishna emphasizes the detachment (vairaagya) and practice (abyaasa) as two essential tools for meditation. My recommendation is one should not study JK until one has understood Vedanta. The he will make more sense. Otherwise it may become more a problem than solution. This is based on my personal experience! I think Ram Chandran has already worned posters not to put quotes without proper context since it is mostly misunderstood than understood. Hari OM! sadananda ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 Namaste all Respected Members, Regarding “Truth” Swamiji, defined it very beautifully. While conversing with one of the curious disciples, who asked Swamiji “Swamiji, can you tell me what is Truth?” “Yes I can, but you try to find it out yourself and come to me tomorrow”. Next day he came to Swamiji and said “Swamiji I tried my best, but I cannot say what is Truth and I cannot define it.” “Truth is that which you cannot negate.” Swamiji said. The disciple asked “Is there such a thing that I cannot negate?” Swamiji said “Yes, there is such a thing and you think, you can definitely find it out, and come to me tomorrow”. Next day, the disciple came and said, “Swamiji, I admit, I cannot find out any such thing, and I think there is nothing that cannot be negated.” Swamiji said, “It is very simple, “You are That” “can you negate yourself.” After thinking for a while, the disciple said “Yes, that is right, but how did it not occur to me, and how could you say that?” “What cannot be negated is Truth”, it is a very fine definition of Truth! Hari Om! kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: Sponsor Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 On reading Shri Mani's 24th Oct story about truth as that which cannot be negated, the following affirmation by Shri Ramakrishna came to mind (from the biography by Swami Saradananda, 'Ramakrishna -- the Great Master', III.2.13-14): ------------------- While offering everything to the Mother, he had said, "Mother, here is Thy knowledge and here is Thy ignorance; here is Thy good and here is Thy evil; here is Thy vice and here is Thy virtue; here is Thy fame and here is Thy calumny. Grant me pure devotion to Thy lotus feet and show Thyself to me."... But the Master's was not a cheat's mind like ours.. [He] could never claim anything as "mine", if he had once made an offering of it to the Mother.... We would like to add another thing in this connection. The Master could not say to the Divine Mother, "Here is Thy truthfulness and here is Thy untruthfulness, O Mother!" though he made to her an offering of everything belonging to his mind and body, merit and demerit, vice and virtue, good and evil, fame and calumny and the like. Once the Master himself told us the reason of it. "If I give up truthfulness in this way,' said the Master, 'how can I keep the truth that I have offered everything to the Mother of the universe?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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