Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 endaro mahanubhavulu, andariki vandanamu. LORD KRISHNA does NOT say that one should do actions without expectation [of fruits]. what he says is the following: "karmanya eva adhikaara ha, maa phaleshu ,kadaachana " the operative word is neither karma [action], nor phala [ fruits of action]. the OPERATIVE WORD IS "ADHIKAARAM " [ CONTROL]. what KRISHNA says is the following: " you have CONTROL over your actions ONLY, NOT on the FRUITS THEREOF, NEVER". what HE says is that man can exert control over what he intends to do and what he does. but he has NO CONTROL over the fruits thereof, he has no control over the returns from his actions. the LORD ALONE has that control, and he alone can decide what is the quantum of returns you deserve against your "actions". therefore , if you are in the habit of assigning all your actions to HIM,in good grace, instead of trying to control what you will get out of it[ anyway you have no AUTHORITY over it], HE will be that much more pleased, and thus , may be tempted to give you more returns and dividents on your deposit [of actions], and you may actually end up getting more out of the credit you have established with his bank. KRISHNA is a very practical avatar. he will never , kadaachana, advise his devotees that they should perform their rights and duties "without expecting" ANYTHING in return. HE knows that such a dictum is against the very nature of human beings, and they will straight away rebel against such an advice. KRISHNA says " my dear child, do please perform whatever you wish to do with utmost dedication [yoga h karmasu kaushalam], and leave the rest TO ME. I will be your bank, I will keep detailed accounting of all your "actions", ; but, my dear child, it is I who will decide how much of returns you will receive out of your deposits with MY bank. if your credit rating is very good, you may get much more than the current rate of interest, and you may get even bonuses---, but if your ratings are full of debits, then -----" after witnessing HIS viswaroopa darsanam, when arjuna surrendres totally, and pleads, OH LORD, it is YOU who do everything , then why dont you yourself finish off this task also? why involve poor me?" KRISHNA's answer is " the duty is yours, the role is yours; you have to play your part. dont worry about the results; that lies in MY domain". karmanya eva ADHIKAARA ha; maa phaleshu,-- kadaachana. learned group-members may please forgive me if i am being presumptuous. with pranams, a.v.krshnan. ======================================================== --- b vaidya nathan <vaidyanathiyer wrote: > > friends, > > wish you all a happy deepavali. > > Aim of human life > > > CHENNAI OCT.24 . The raison d'être of human birth is > liberation from bondage according to the scriptures > and they do not lose any opportunity to drive home > the > urgency of realising this goal in worldly life. But, > in general there is all-round complacency about > spiritual life as there is a misconception that it > is > to be pursued in the end of life when all worldly > responsibilities are over. One should stop to think > whether there is any guarantee about one's lifespan > to > chalk out what one wants to do at every stage in > life. > Certainly no. Besides, no one knows what kind of > birth > is possible in the next life if this chance is > frittered away in materialistic pursuits. It is > imperative then that there is a dire need to make a > beginning immediately towards realising this > objective > as soon as the significance of human birth is > grasped. > > > Spiritual life is not divorced from worldly life and > hence it is a question of orienting one's life > towards > the goal of liberation and adopting the right way of > performing action. Lord Krishna says categorically > that man cannot desist from action because the > natural > tendency of a spiritual aspirant who undertakes > scriptural study is to shy away from action after > learning that knowledge liberates. In fact, > scriptures > prescribe certain obligatory duties for man, which > are > in the form of rituals that one must perform > everyday. > By doing them one does not gain merit. But from the > spiritual standpoint there was a definite gain > because > the mind developed the capacity to engage in action > without expectation of the result and thereby became > purified which was essential for gaining spiritual > knowledge, said Sri Goda Venketeswara Sastri in his > discourse. > > When an action is performed with a motive it binds > man > by creating fresh Karma. But when the same action is > done without expectation of result it liberates man > from bondage. This is the right way of engaging in > action taught in the Gita. But, one will certainly > ask > whether it is possible to act like this. In worldly > life as it is the norm to be result oriented in > every > endeavour the Gita teaching may appear an > impractical > ideal to pursue. But, it is not so. It is only when > there is attachment to the result of one's action > that > there will be anxiety about it and therefore one > will > not be able to engage in it with total involvement. > By > dedicating all actions to God the mind becomes free > to > give full attention to whatever one is engaged in > and > also develop the right frame of mind to accept > whatever be the outcome as God's grace. > > > copy right; the Hindu daily > > > > ______________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? > Get the FREE > Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk > ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 advaitin, av krshnan <avkrshnan> wrote: > > endaro mahanubhavulu, > andariki vandanamu. > LORD KRISHNA does NOT say that one > should do actions without expectation [of fruits]. > what he says is the following: ------------------------------ Namaste Krishnanji, Though what you write about this key shloka of the Gita is acceptable as a first approximation to its meaning and significance, there is much more in it. The full meaning of this `maa phaleshhu' shloka has to be grasped by reading it along with the following eight shlokas (and probably many more!) which occur later: yogasthaH kuru karmANi sangam tyaktvA dhananjaya / siddhy-asiddhyos-samo bhUtvA samatvaM yoga uchyate // II – 48 Established in Yoga, perform actions, abandoning attachment, remaining even-minded in success and failure; for, even-mindedness is said to be Yoga. niyataM kuru karma tvaM karma jyAyo hy-akarmaNaH / sharIra-yAtrApi cha te na prasiddhyed-akarmaNaH // III – 8 You must perform action that has been enjoined. For, action is superior to inaction. Even the maintenance of your body cannot be properly accomplished through inaction. yajnArthAt-karmaNonyatra lokoyaM karma-bandhanaH / tadartham karma kaunteya mukta-sangas-samAchara // III -9 The world is fettered by action which is not performed as a yajna; hence, O son of Kunti, being freed from attachment, you must properly perform (every) action as a yajna. tasmAd-asaktas-satataM kAryaM karma samAchara / asakto hyAcharan-karfma param-Apnoti pUrushhaH // III -19 Therefore, unattached always, you should perform action that is to be performed; for, the person, performing action without attachment, attains the Supreme saktAH karmaNyavidvAmsaH yathA kurvanti bhArata / kuryAdvidvAms-tathA-saktaH chikIrshhur-loka-san grahaM // III-25 Just as the unwise persons, being attached to action, do, Arjuna, so the wise should perform, (but) being unattached and for the purpose of holding the world together. mayi sarvANi karmANi sannyasyAdhyAtma-chetasA / nirAshIr-nirmamo bhUtvA yudhyasva vigata-jvaraH // III-30 Renouncing all actions in Me, with mind intent on the Self, you should fight, devoid of (mental) excitement, free from expectations and without any sense of proprietorship. yuktaH karma-phalaM tyaktvA shAntim-Apnoti naishhTikIM / ayuktaH-kAmakAreNa phale sakto nibadhyate // V – 12 Having abandoned (the attachment for) the fruit of actions, the master of Yoga attains the highest Peace. But the person, who is not in this Yoga, attached to the fruit of action, is bound by his action born of desire chetasA sarva-karmANi mayi sannyasya matparaH / buddhiyogam-upAshritya maccittas-satataM bhava // XVIII – 57 Mentally surrendering all actions to Me, and accepting Me as the Supreme, have your mind fixed on Me by resorting to buddhi-yoga. Taking into account all these and a global understanding of the Gita, the following elaborate paraphrase of `Maa phaleshhu' shloka emerges. It is attachment that rouses desire and it is desire that brings in anger and so on the chain reaction goes. The final result is a further bondage to the cycle of works and thereon to the cycle of births and deaths. Non-attachment on the other hand will not bind you to the results of the action, just as a child kicking the chest of the adult who is carrying it, does not have any axe to grind and so does not get tarnished by the kicking act. This is the great secret of Karma Yoga. If actions are done without desire or attachment they do not bind you by their results. The strategy of implementing this in actual practice is the greatest contribution of Hinduism to the ways of the world. It is called Yajna. Any action done in total dedication to a cause or to a person or a deity is called yajna. The word `sacrifice' inbuilt into the meaning of the word refers to the attitude of `not mine' which is a prerequisite for all yajnas. Whatever is done, is dedicated as not mine. This is the strategy of action. The finite personality in us always craves for results, for proprietorship and for enjoyment of the reward for the actions. This craving is the Satan in us. Starve this Satanic desire in us. Then the Eve in the form of the results and rewards of actions will not tempt you. Action done for the sake of fruits is what is being tabooed. Like a gramaphone needle which plays any kind of music with the same regard for precision and perfection, irrespective of whether it is to `its' liking or not, we should do our actions irrespective of whether we like it or not. (II – 48). The strategy for this is dedication. Dedication means: VOLUNTARY ACCEPTANCE OF SUFFERING FOR THE SAKE OF SOMEBODY ELSE. The deity of the dedication – maybe a father, a mother, a guru, a boss, a cause, or a God – is the only thing that should matter. You do a certain thing because it is to the liking of the deity of your dedication not because, you will get something out of it. You avoid doing a certain thing because it is not to the taste or the orders or the wishes of the deity of your dedication. Once we start doing actions with this attitude of dedication we are sure to find an alchemy taking place in the interior core of our minds. Thereafter without our knowing it our whole internal psychology will start restructuring itself to this methodology of doing actions. Dedicated action is yajna. Whether it is academic study or a competitive poroject or a financial deal or a religious worship or a social service – whatever it be, the work done with the attitude of dedication will not bind one in terms of its consequences. That is what a judge does when he sentences a criminal. That is what a surgeon does, at the operation table. He is dedicated to the cause, he is not attached to the person on the operation table. Thus Karma Yoga is self-less desireless dedicated action – action, for all purposes, done exactly as would be done by a person who is totally attached and involved. (Shloka III -25). The difference is only in the mental attitude of the doer. (Shloka XVIII-57). Desireless and unselfish action performed and dedicated in this way leads to purification of the mind. Vasanas that are bound to be imprinted in the mind can be avoided only by such actions. Such nishhkAma-karma is the summum bonum of Karma Yoga. PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Namaste Professor, Absolutlely fantastic. When the relevant shlokas are brought together the way you have done, the coherence of the whole Gita message is crystal clear. praAmshu labhye phale lobhAt udhbAhuriva vAmanah - like a dwarf reaching for the fruit which is within reach only for a tall man, I would like to make some suggestions: You write "Any action done in total dedication to a cause or to a person or a deity is called yajna. The word `sacrifice' inbuilt into the meaning of the word refers to the attitude of `not mine' which is a prerequisite for all yajnas. Whatever is done, is dedicated as not mine. This is the strategy of action. The finite personality in us always craves for results, for proprietorship and for enjoyment of the reward for the actions. This craving is the Satan in us. Starve this Satanic desire in us. Then the Eve in the form of the results and rewards of actions will not tempt you. Action done for the sake of fruits is what is being tabooed. Like a gramaphone needle which plays any kind of music with the same regard for precision and perfection, irrespective of whether it is to `its' liking or not, we should do our actions irrespective of whether we like it or not. (II – 48). The strategy for this is dedication. Dedication means: VOLUNTARY ACCEPTANCE OF SUFFERING FOR THE SAKE OF SOMEBODY ELSE. The deity of the dedication – maybe a father, a mother, a guru, a boss, a cause, or a God – is the only thing that should matter. You do a certain thing because it is to the liking of the deity of your dedication not because, you will get something out of it. You avoid doing a certain thing because it is not to the taste or the orders or the wishes of the deity of your dedication. Once we start doing actions with this attitude of dedication we are sure to find an alchemy taking place in the interior core of our minds. Thereafter without our knowing it our whole internal psychology will start restructuring itself to this methodology of doing actions." My comments In my opinion suffering is not germane to the above shlokas. What is germane is the attitude of equanimity arising out of the RIGHTNESS of the action. So I would suggest that the portion above starting with "The strategy" and ending with "methodology of doing actions" be reworded as follows: "The strategy for this is dedication. Dedication means: DOING AN ACTION FOR THE SAKE OF DOING IT - THE REASON FOR DOING IT IS THAT IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. The deity of the dedication is DHARMA and not the apparent earthly beneficiary of the action – maybe a father, a mother, a guru, a boss, a cause, or a God – is the only thing that should matter. You do a certain thing because it is in accordance with the deity of your dedication - DHARMA and not because, you will get something out of it. You avoid doing a certain thing because it is not in accord with the deity of your dedication - DHARMA. Once we start doing actions with this attitude of dedication we are sure to find an alchemy taking place in the interior core of our minds. Thereafter without our knowing it our whole internal psychology will start restructuring itself to this methodology of doing actions." Has the dwarf overreached? If so please do not hesitate to put him in his place. pranAms, Venkat - M Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 dear prof., as i have mentioned in the mail, i am an ignoramus in the august company of this group. therefore, i am happy to stand corrected. thank you for your reply par excellence. regards. a.v.krshnan. --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: > advaitin, av krshnan > <avkrshnan> wrote: > > > > endaro mahanubhavulu, > > andariki vandanamu. > > LORD KRISHNA does NOT say that > one > > should do actions without expectation [of fruits]. > > what he says is the following: > ------------------------------ > > > Namaste Krishnanji, > > Though what you write about this key shloka of the > Gita is > acceptable as a first approximation to its meaning > and significance, > there is much more in it. The full meaning of this > `maa phaleshhu' > shloka has to be grasped by reading it along with > the following > eight shlokas (and probably many more!) which > occur later: > > yogasthaH kuru karmANi sangam tyaktvA dhananjaya / > siddhy-asiddhyos-samo bhUtvA samatvaM yoga uchyate > // II – 48 > > Established in Yoga, perform actions, abandoning > attachment, > remaining even-minded in success and failure; for, > even-mindedness > is said to be Yoga. > > niyataM kuru karma tvaM karma jyAyo hy-akarmaNaH / > sharIra-yAtrApi cha te na prasiddhyed-akarmaNaH // > III – 8 > > You must perform action that has been enjoined. > For, action is > superior to inaction. Even the maintenance of your > body cannot be > properly accomplished through inaction. > > yajnArthAt-karmaNonyatra lokoyaM karma-bandhanaH / > tadartham karma kaunteya mukta-sangas-samAchara // > III -9 > > The world is fettered by action which is not > performed as a yajna; > hence, O son of Kunti, being freed from attachment, > you must > properly perform (every) action as a yajna. > > tasmAd-asaktas-satataM kAryaM karma samAchara / > asakto hyAcharan-karfma param-Apnoti pUrushhaH // > III -19 > > Therefore, unattached always, you should perform > action that is to > be performed; for, the person, performing action > without attachment, > attains the Supreme > > saktAH karmaNyavidvAmsaH yathA kurvanti bhArata / > kuryAdvidvAms-tathA-saktaH chikIrshhur-loka-san > grahaM // III-25 > > Just as the unwise persons, being attached to > action, do, Arjuna, so > the wise should perform, (but) being unattached and > for the purpose > of holding the world together. > > mayi sarvANi karmANi sannyasyAdhyAtma-chetasA / > nirAshIr-nirmamo bhUtvA yudhyasva vigata-jvaraH // > III-30 > > Renouncing all actions in Me, with mind intent on > the Self, you > should fight, devoid of (mental) excitement, free > from expectations > and without any sense of proprietorship. > > yuktaH karma-phalaM tyaktvA shAntim-Apnoti > naishhTikIM / > ayuktaH-kAmakAreNa phale sakto nibadhyate // V – 12 > > > Having abandoned (the attachment for) the fruit of > actions, the > master of Yoga attains the highest Peace. But the > person, who is not > in this Yoga, attached to the fruit of action, is > bound by his > action born of desire > > chetasA sarva-karmANi mayi sannyasya matparaH / > buddhiyogam-upAshritya maccittas-satataM bhava // > XVIII – 57 > > Mentally surrendering all actions to Me, and > accepting Me as the > Supreme, have your mind fixed on Me by resorting to > buddhi-yoga. > > Taking into account all these and a global > understanding of the > Gita, the following elaborate paraphrase of `Maa > phaleshhu' shloka > emerges. > > It is attachment that rouses desire and it is > desire that brings in > anger and so on the chain reaction goes. The final > result is a > further bondage to the cycle of works and thereon to > the cycle of > births and deaths. Non-attachment on the other hand > will not bind > you to the results of the action, just as a child > kicking the chest > of the adult who is carrying it, does not have any > axe to grind and > so does not get tarnished by the kicking act. This > is the great > secret of Karma Yoga. If actions are done without > desire or > attachment they do not bind you by their results. > The strategy of > implementing this in actual practice is the greatest > contribution of > Hinduism to the ways of the world. It is called > Yajna. > > Any action done in total dedication to a cause or to > a person or a > deity is called yajna. The word `sacrifice' inbuilt > into the meaning > of the word refers to the attitude of `not mine' > which is a > prerequisite for all yajnas. Whatever is done, is > dedicated as not > mine. This is the strategy of action. The finite > personality in us > always craves for results, for proprietorship and > for enjoyment of > the reward for the actions. This craving is the > Satan in us. Starve > this Satanic desire in us. Then the Eve in the form > of the results > and rewards of actions will not tempt you. Action > done for the sake > of fruits is what is being tabooed. Like a > gramaphone needle which > plays any kind of music with the same regard for > precision and > perfection, irrespective of whether it is to `its' > liking or not, we > should do our actions irrespective of whether we > like it or not. > (II – 48). The strategy for this is dedication. > Dedication means: VOLUNTARY ACCEPTANCE OF SUFFERING > FOR THE SAKE OF > SOMEBODY ELSE. The deity of the dedication – maybe a > father, a > mother, a guru, a boss, a cause, or a God – is the > only thing that > should matter. You do a certain thing because it is > to the liking of > the deity of your dedication not because, you will > get something out > of it. You avoid doing a certain thing because it > is not to the > taste or the orders or the wishes of the deity of > your dedication. > Once we start doing actions with this attitude of > dedication we are > sure to find an alchemy taking place in the interior > core of our > minds. Thereafter without our knowing it our whole > internal > psychology will start restructuring itself to this > methodology of > doing actions. > Dedicated action is yajna. Whether it is academic > study or a > competitive poroject or a financial deal or a > religious worship or a > social service – whatever it be, the work done with > the attitude of > dedication will not bind one in terms of its > consequences. That is > what a judge does when he sentences a criminal. That > is what a > surgeon does, at the operation table. He is > dedicated to the cause, > he is not attached to the person on the operation > table. Thus Karma > Yoga is self-less desireless dedicated action – > action, === message truncated === ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Many Thousand Namaskarams to all The discussion on Maa Phaleshu is indeed enchanting. With reference to the following part on Dedication: "Dedication means: VOLUNTARY ACCEPTANCE OF SUFFERING > > FOR THE SAKE OF > > SOMEBODY ELSE. The deity of the dedication – maybe a > > father, a > > mother, a guru, a boss, a cause, or a God – is the > > only thing that > > should matter. " I am trying to think of a say a housewife, whose world does not extend beyound her husband, children and Inlaws. If she does serve these people with a yagna bhava( that is perform all the actions from early in the morning to late in the night only because these actions have to be performed and they are the right ones to do), will she be a karma yogin on par with say a social worker who engages in action to alleviate the suffering of masses ( Like a Mother Teresa or Gandhiji). I am always occupied by issues of scale in action and achievement and any light the group can throw on this will help in the enquiry on karma yoga for which I shall be eternally indebted. Hari Om Sridhar advaitin, av krshnan <avkrshnan> wrote: > > > dear prof., > as i have mentioned in the mail, > i am an ignoramus in the august company of this > group. > therefore, i am happy to stand > corrected. > thank you for your reply par > excellence. > regards. > a.v.krshnan. > > > > > > --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote: > > advaitin, av krshnan > > <avkrshnan> wrote: > > > > > > endaro mahanubhavulu, > > > andariki vandanamu. > > > LORD KRISHNA does NOT say that > > one > > > should do actions without expectation [of fruits]. > > > what he says is the following: > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Namaste Krishnanji, > > > > Though what you write about this key shloka of the > > Gita is > > acceptable as a first approximation to its meaning > > and significance, > > there is much more in it. The full meaning of this > > `maa phaleshhu' > > shloka has to be grasped by reading it along with > > the following > > eight shlokas (and probably many more!) which > > occur later: > > > > yogasthaH kuru karmANi sangam tyaktvA dhananjaya / > > siddhy-asiddhyos-samo bhUtvA samatvaM yoga uchyate > > // II – 48 > > > > Established in Yoga, perform actions, abandoning > > attachment, > > remaining even-minded in success and failure; for, > > even-mindedness > > is said to be Yoga. > > > > niyataM kuru karma tvaM karma jyAyo hy-akarmaNaH / > > sharIra-yAtrApi cha te na prasiddhyed-akarmaNaH // > > III – 8 > > > > You must perform action that has been enjoined. > > For, action is > > superior to inaction. Even the maintenance of your > > body cannot be > > properly accomplished through inaction. > > > > yajnArthAt-karmaNonyatra lokoyaM karma-bandhanaH / > > tadartham karma kaunteya mukta-sangas-samAchara // > > III -9 > > > > The world is fettered by action which is not > > performed as a yajna; > > hence, O son of Kunti, being freed from attachment, > > you must > > properly perform (every) action as a yajna. > > > > tasmAd-asaktas-satataM kAryaM karma samAchara / > > asakto hyAcharan-karfma param-Apnoti pUrushhaH // > > III -19 > > > > Therefore, unattached always, you should perform > > action that is to > > be performed; for, the person, performing action > > without attachment, > > attains the Supreme > > > > saktAH karmaNyavidvAmsaH yathA kurvanti bhArata / > > kuryAdvidvAms-tathA-saktaH chikIrshhur-loka-san > > grahaM // III-25 > > > > Just as the unwise persons, being attached to > > action, do, Arjuna, so > > the wise should perform, (but) being unattached and > > for the purpose > > of holding the world together. > > > > mayi sarvANi karmANi sannyasyAdhyAtma-chetasA / > > nirAshIr-nirmamo bhUtvA yudhyasva vigata-jvaraH // > > III-30 > > > > Renouncing all actions in Me, with mind intent on > > the Self, you > > should fight, devoid of (mental) excitement, free > > from expectations > > and without any sense of proprietorship. > > > > yuktaH karma-phalaM tyaktvA shAntim-Apnoti > > naishhTikIM / > > ayuktaH-kAmakAreNa phale sakto nibadhyate // V – 12 > > > > > > Having abandoned (the attachment for) the fruit of > > actions, the > > master of Yoga attains the highest Peace. But the > > person, who is not > > in this Yoga, attached to the fruit of action, is > > bound by his > > action born of desire > > > > chetasA sarva-karmANi mayi sannyasya matparaH / > > buddhiyogam-upAshritya maccittas-satataM bhava // > > XVIII – 57 > > > > Mentally surrendering all actions to Me, and > > accepting Me as the > > Supreme, have your mind fixed on Me by resorting to > > buddhi-yoga. > > > > Taking into account all these and a global > > understanding of the > > Gita, the following elaborate paraphrase of `Maa > > phaleshhu' shloka > > emerges. > > > > It is attachment that rouses desire and it is > > desire that brings in > > anger and so on the chain reaction goes. The final > > result is a > > further bondage to the cycle of works and thereon to > > the cycle of > > births and deaths. Non-attachment on the other hand > > will not bind > > you to the results of the action, just as a child > > kicking the chest > > of the adult who is carrying it, does not have any > > axe to grind and > > so does not get tarnished by the kicking act. This > > is the great > > secret of Karma Yoga. If actions are done without > > desire or > > attachment they do not bind you by their results. > > The strategy of > > implementing this in actual practice is the greatest > > contribution of > > Hinduism to the ways of the world. It is called > > Yajna. > > > > Any action done in total dedication to a cause or to > > a person or a > > deity is called yajna. The word `sacrifice' inbuilt > > into the meaning > > of the word refers to the attitude of `not mine' > > which is a > > prerequisite for all yajnas. Whatever is done, is > > dedicated as not > > mine. This is the strategy of action. The finite > > personality in us > > always craves for results, for proprietorship and > > for enjoyment of > > the reward for the actions. This craving is the > > Satan in us. Starve > > this Satanic desire in us. Then the Eve in the form > > of the results > > and rewards of actions will not tempt you. Action > > done for the sake > > of fruits is what is being tabooed. Like a > > gramaphone needle which > > plays any kind of music with the same regard for > > precision and > > perfection, irrespective of whether it is to `its' > > liking or not, we > > should do our actions irrespective of whether we > > like it or not. > > (II – 48). The strategy for this is dedication. > > Dedication means: VOLUNTARY ACCEPTANCE OF SUFFERING > > FOR THE SAKE OF > > SOMEBODY ELSE. The deity of the dedication – maybe a > > father, a > > mother, a guru, a boss, a cause, or a God – is the > > only thing that > > should matter. You do a certain thing because it is > > to the liking of > > the deity of your dedication not because, you will > > get something out > > of it. You avoid doing a certain thing because it > > is not to the > > taste or the orders or the wishes of the deity of > > your dedication. > > Once we start doing actions with this attitude of > > dedication we are > > sure to find an alchemy taking place in the interior > > core of our > > minds. Thereafter without our knowing it our whole > > internal > > psychology will start restructuring itself to this > > methodology of > > doing actions. > > Dedicated action is yajna. Whether it is academic > > study or a > > competitive poroject or a financial deal or a > > religious worship or a > > social service – whatever it be, the work done with > > the attitude of > > dedication will not bind one in terms of its > > consequences. That is > > what a judge does when he sentences a criminal. That > > is what a > > surgeon does, at the operation table. He is > > dedicated to the cause, > > he is not attached to the person on the operation > > table. Thus Karma > > Yoga is self-less desireless dedicated action – > > action, > === message truncated === > > ____________________ __ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE > Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 dear professor, you said it corect. the sloka under discussion is to be read along with other slokas. also what you said about dedication is also correct. we have a practical example in our life. sri narayana bhattathri of sri narayaneeyam, took over the disease of his guru as he could not see his guru suffering. guru became allright but bhattathri was made to suffer which made him to go to guruvayoor and sing the praise of lord and get cured. pranams, cdr bvn ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 dear gurujis, inspite of having been the depository of the most humane dharma in the world, inspite of having been and continuing to be the most empotionally intelligent peoples, inspite of having reached the highest levels of scientific achievements, we as a nation had no wherewithal to defend ourselves against successive onslaughts from alien believers. even today, our answer to repeated attacks on our nationhood and taunts is to offer more and more concessions and more and more avenues for "talks". why? indian? why? the westerner's answer to this question is that we are too passive, and our passivity is due to our extreme fatalism, our innate belief in " karmanyeva adhikaraste , maa phaleshu kadaachana",and our firm belief in past and future births. my accent on the word "ADHIKAARA : " WAS THE REPLY given by swami DAYAANANDA SARASWATI at a lecture during his visit here. i did not title the credit at the first instance because : * i do not know if i can substantiate the quote thro any printed version. * i did not want to cause any prejudice attendant on names. * i APOLOGISE if i was wrong. we as our dharmiks must be aware of the following : @ our attitude of sarva dharma sama bhava has led to : % our dharma is completely in the minority in the north east. % in six states including kerala, we are on the borderline of 50:50 majority [1996 figures!] % we are in minority in chhattisgarh. % 70% of our dharmiks are "neutralised" already. oh! revered swamijis and avadhootas! , is there not amongst you all one raajaguru who is a combination of one chanakya plus one aadi shankara plus one krishna devaraaya plus one shivaaji amongst you all to preserve and save us???? I AM TERRIBLY SORRY IF I HAVE STRAYED AWAY FROM THE NARROW PATH WE HAD CHOSEN TO DISCUSS. MY INTENTION IS NOT TO CAUSE ANY RIPPLES. IT IS JUST MY HELPLESS OUTCRY. apologetically yours, a.v.krshnan. --- b vaidya nathan <vaidyanathiyer wrote: > dear professor, > > you said it corect. the sloka under discussion is to > be read along with other slokas. also what you said > about dedication is also correct. > > we have a practical example in our life. sri > narayana > bhattathri of sri narayaneeyam, took over the > disease > of his guru as he could not see his guru suffering. > guru became allright but bhattathri was made to > suffer > which made him to go to guruvayoor and sing the > praise > of lord and get cured. > > pranams, > > cdr bvn > > ______________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? > Get the FREE > Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk > ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Many Thousand Pranams to all Krishnanji, reference to your post. This is an Anguish we face every now and then, not just with respect to our nation but whenever we read news ( All news seem to be only about calamity and calumny). Firstly, It is true that As a nation we did sink into 'Tamas' for several centuries, being attached to inaction which Gita has warned us against. The result was centuries of occupation, suffering of oppressions etc.Then, India produced some great mahapurushas like Gandhiji, Swami Vivekanand etc., who reawakened Hindus to the fundamental and enduring tenets of Sanatana Dharma. It is credit to the Sattvic foundations and evolved spiritual thought of several thousands of years that we could combat the tamas successfully and are a free and strong nation today. I would not worry about the quoted western nations- These mighty nations scale great heights only to be reduced to a minor reflection of their former selves in a very short time. Take Britain, Germany or Japan - only 50 years back each of one them was poised to be a mega power, probably a Global Ruler backed by Technology and sophisticated arms. Today America is riding high. If it remains and enduring success over centuries then we'll listen to them and wonder if a predominant expression of Rajas can make for a nation with enduring might. On whether we want a Kautilya, whether we should be making concessions, whether we should bulldoze opposition - This may not be the forum to elaborate. Realpolitik, diplomacy etc. have their own place and ways of working. Such thoughts should no doubt arise and we seek answers as to what each individual should be doing. What can seekers like us do?. My humble submission is that we start by influencing the world nearest to us depending on each ones' state of evolution. There are three worlds which any of us would like to set right. First world is the universe and natural phenomena - earthquakes, natural disasters, tragedies etc.This would be the most difficult to influence. Second world is one of people, societies and their interactions - Intolerance between nations, even within a nation between communities, castes etc. - This is also difficult to influence but can be done. The third is the world within each one of us- our own raaga, dvesha, prejudices, moha etc. Most spiritual disciplines advise us to start with this world first. The methods, Sadhanas, Bhaavas etc. need not be enumerated here. So whenever, One feels daunted by the larger problems of the society, nation and the world , the first step has to be in terms of reforming one's own internal world.When Many people in the nation attempt this, A few emerge who influence the course of National/Global thought and action in substantive ways. I believe that it is a continuuing process and is happening every moment and will only get strengthened when each one of us work hard at the first step without checking if there are many others who are doing the same! I may have tried to answer Krishnanji, not very directly. My apologies for the shortcomings and if I have strayed. Many thousand Pranams to all Sridhar advaitin, av krshnan <avkrshnan> wrote: > > dear gurujis, > inspite of having been the depository of > the most humane dharma in the world, inspite of having > been and continuing to be the most empotionally > intelligent peoples, inspite of having reached the > highest levels of scientific achievements, we as a > nation had no wherewithal to defend ourselves against > successive onslaughts from alien believers. > even today, our answer to repeated > attacks on our nationhood and taunts is to offer more > and more concessions and more and more avenues for > "talks". > why? indian? why? > the westerner's answer to this question is > that we are too passive, and our passivity is due to > our extreme fatalism, our innate belief in " > karmanyeva adhikaraste , maa phaleshu kadaachana",and > our firm belief in past and future births. > my accent on the word "ADHIKAARA : " WAS > THE REPLY given by swami DAYAANANDA SARASWATI at a > lecture during his visit here. > i did not title the credit at the first > instance because : > * i do not know if i can substantiate > the quote thro any printed version. > * i did not want to cause any prejudice > attendant on names. > * i APOLOGISE if i was wrong. > > we as our dharmiks must be aware of the > following : > @ our attitude of sarva dharma sama bhava > has led to : > % our dharma is completely in the minority > in the north east. > % in six states including kerala, > we are on the borderline of > 50:50 majority [1996 figures!] > % we are in minority in chhattisgarh. > > % 70% of our dharmiks are "neutralised" > already. > > oh! revered swamijis and avadhootas! , > is there not amongst you all one raajaguru > who is a combination of one chanakya plus one aadi > shankara plus one krishna devaraaya plus one shivaaji > amongst you all to preserve and save us???? > I AM TERRIBLY SORRY IF I HAVE STRAYED > AWAY FROM THE NARROW PATH WE HAD CHOSEN TO DISCUSS. > MY INTENTION IS NOT TO CAUSE ANY RIPPLES. IT IS JUST > MY HELPLESS OUTCRY. > apologetically yours, > a.v.krshnan. > > > > > > > > --- b vaidya nathan <vaidyanathiyer> wrote: > > dear professor, > > > > you said it corect. the sloka under discussion is to > > be read along with other slokas. also what you said > > about dedication is also correct. > > > > we have a practical example in our life. sri > > narayana > > bhattathri of sri narayaneeyam, took over the > > disease > > of his guru as he could not see his guru suffering. > > guru became allright but bhattathri was made to > > suffer > > which made him to go to guruvayoor and sing the > > praise > > of lord and get cured. > > > > pranams, > > > > cdr bvn > > > > > ____________________ __ > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? > > Get the FREE > > Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk > > > > ____________________ __ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE > Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Namaste, Excellent Reply! I feel this post. To spread the light or to fight the darkness, the best course is to become the lamp. Regards, Ajay advaitin, "asridhar19" <asridhar19> wrote: > Many Thousand Pranams to all > Krishnanji, reference to your post. > This is an Anguish we face every now and then, not just with respect > to our nation but whenever we read news ( All news seem to be only > about calamity and calumny). > Firstly, It is true that As a nation we did sink into 'Tamas' for > several centuries, being attached to inaction which Gita has warned > us against. The result was centuries of occupation, suffering of > oppressions etc.Then, India produced some great mahapurushas like > Gandhiji, Swami Vivekanand etc., who reawakened Hindus to the > fundamental and enduring tenets of Sanatana Dharma. It is credit to > the Sattvic foundations and evolved spiritual thought of several > thousands of years that we could combat the tamas successfully and > are a free and strong nation today. I would not worry about the > quoted western nations- These mighty nations scale great heights only > to be reduced to a minor reflection of their former selves in a very > short time. Take Britain, Germany or Japan - only 50 years back each > of one them was poised to be a mega power, probably a Global Ruler > backed by Technology and sophisticated arms. Today America is riding > high. If it remains and enduring success over centuries then we'll > listen to them and wonder if a predominant expression of Rajas can > make for a nation with enduring might. > On whether we want a Kautilya, whether we should be making > concessions, whether we should bulldoze opposition - This may not be > the forum to elaborate. Realpolitik, diplomacy etc. have their own > place and ways of working. > Such thoughts should no doubt arise and we seek answers as to what > each individual should be doing. What can seekers like us do?. > My humble submission is that we start by influencing the world > nearest to us depending on each ones' state of evolution. There are > three worlds which any of us would like to set right. First world is > the universe and natural phenomena - earthquakes, natural disasters, > tragedies etc.This would be the most difficult to influence. Second > world is one of people, societies and their interactions - > Intolerance between nations, even within a nation between > communities, castes etc. - This is also difficult to influence but > can be done. The third is the world within each one of us- our own > raaga, dvesha, prejudices, moha etc. Most spiritual disciplines > advise us to start with this world first. The methods, Sadhanas, > Bhaavas etc. need not be enumerated here. So whenever, One feels > daunted by the larger problems of the society, nation and the world , > the first step has to be in terms of reforming one's own internal > world.When > Many people in the nation attempt this, A few emerge who influence > the course of National/Global thought and action in substantive ways. > I believe that it is a continuuing process and is happening every > moment and will only get strengthened when each one of us work hard > at the first step without checking if there are many others who are > doing the same! > I may have tried to answer Krishnanji, not very directly. My > apologies for the shortcomings and if I have strayed. > Many thousand Pranams to all > Sridhar > > advaitin, av krshnan <avkrshnan> wrote: > > > > dear gurujis, > > inspite of having been the depository of > > the most humane dharma in the world, inspite of having > > been and continuing to be the most empotionally > > intelligent peoples, inspite of having reached the > > highest levels of scientific achievements, we as a > > nation had no wherewithal to defend ourselves against > > successive onslaughts from alien believers. > > even today, our answer to repeated > > attacks on our nationhood and taunts is to offer more > > and more concessions and more and more avenues for > > "talks". > > why? indian? why? > > the westerner's answer to this question is > > that we are too passive, and our passivity is due to > > our extreme fatalism, our innate belief in " > > karmanyeva adhikaraste , maa phaleshu kadaachana",and > > our firm belief in past and future births. > > my accent on the word "ADHIKAARA : " WAS > > THE REPLY given by swami DAYAANANDA SARASWATI at a > > lecture during his visit here. > > i did not title the credit at the first > > instance because : > > * i do not know if i can substantiate > > the quote thro any printed version. > > * i did not want to cause any prejudice > > attendant on names. > > * i APOLOGISE if i was wrong. > > > > we as our dharmiks must be aware of the > > following : > > @ our attitude of sarva dharma sama bhava > > has led to : > > % our dharma is completely in the minority > > in the north east. > > % in six states including kerala, > > we are on the borderline of > > 50:50 majority [1996 figures!] > > % we are in minority in chhattisgarh. > > > > % 70% of our dharmiks are "neutralised" > > already. > > > > oh! revered swamijis and avadhootas! , > > is there not amongst you all one raajaguru > > who is a combination of one chanakya plus one aadi > > shankara plus one krishna devaraaya plus one shivaaji > > amongst you all to preserve and save us???? > > I AM TERRIBLY SORRY IF I HAVE STRAYED > > AWAY FROM THE NARROW PATH WE HAD CHOSEN TO DISCUSS. > > MY INTENTION IS NOT TO CAUSE ANY RIPPLES. IT IS JUST > > MY HELPLESS OUTCRY. > > apologetically yours, > > a.v.krshnan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- b vaidya nathan <vaidyanathiyer> wrote: > > > dear professor, > > > > > > you said it corect. the sloka under discussion is to > > > be read along with other slokas. also what you said > > > about dedication is also correct. > > > > > > we have a practical example in our life. sri > > > narayana > > > bhattathri of sri narayaneeyam, took over the > > > disease > > > of his guru as he could not see his guru suffering. > > > guru became allright but bhattathri was made to > > > suffer > > > which made him to go to guruvayoor and sing the > > > praise > > > of lord and get cured. > > > > > > pranams, > > > > > > cdr bvn > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > __ > > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? > > > Get the FREE > > > Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk > > > > > > > > ____________________ > __ > > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? 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