Grace

[Guest guest]

Bible is full of it and Christians invoke God's Grace all the time.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

There is a thing called Grace. I don't know which scriptures mention

it but Sri Ramana often spoke of it.

 

Grace of the Guru is beyond words. It can start with words. Words of the

Guru are like scriptures for one who has faith. Instructions of the

Guru are a form of Grace.

 

Somehow the words of the Guru themselves spontaneously turn into Grace

at the right moment when the mind of the aspirant is ripe.

 

Meditation on the words that indicate the Reality of the Self allows the

mind to gradually purify and mature.

 

Faith and surrender plays a key role on the spiritual path. Sri Ramana

may tell a devotee......"You are the Self, nothing but the Self. You are

already That. Pure Existence, Awareness, Being, Bliss. Let the mind

that perceives diversity merge in the Heart."

 

If the faith of the devotee is absolute, the words of the Guru are

accepted absolutely creating a firm conviction and there is the

receptivity for Grace to manifest and thus out of nowhere the Eternal

Self- Recognition appears to assert itself -- the nature of which is

Self-Knowledge.

 

Love to all

Harsha

 

 

--

 

[Guest guest]

Danand5 wrote:

> Bible is full of it and Christians invoke God's Grace all the time.

 

Good point. I think Greg can tell us that there is even a "Grace School"

and a "Works School"

 

According to the "Grace School" only God's grace saves us. According to

the "Works School" only good works save us.

 

Thanks for the reminder.

[Guest guest]

                                   Guru Nanak & Sikhism

 

Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism, was born in 1469. His birthday will be

celebrated on Nov. 8 this year since that is the day of full moon in the Punjabi

month of Kartik, the traditional practice of pinning the event.

Traditionally, Sikhs and other believers celebrate the day with prayers and also

some pomp

and show.

 

Born to Hindu parents in a place called Talwandi, now known as Nankana Sahib

in Pakistan Punjab, Nanak developed a penchant for the search of truth very

early in his life. He was deeply distressed by the divide between religious

precepts and what the people practiced and could not see ritualism shorn of

deeper

commitment as being the path for salvation.

 

During his time (1469-1539), society was split strictly along the religious

lines. Nanak's wisdom helped to bring the polarized cultures together. His

first pronouncement after what is believed to be his enlightenment, were the

words: There is no Hindu and no Muslim - albeit, we are all children of one God.

He

spread this message of oneness and the need for love of each other throughout

his travels that took him to most of India, Tibet, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan,

Iran, Central Asia, and Iraq.

 

For Guru Nanak, God is the one and only essence that pervades the Universe

and the Cosmos. His home is everywhere, meaning - he created the world to be a

place of beauty where virtuous deeds and moral judgment must predominate to

overcome sin and suffering. Nanak sang praises of God through "Kirtan" in which

Mardana, his Muslim companion, played the instrument of Rebeck to promote these

very ideas of virtuosity and morality.

 

Nanak preached less and practiced what he said. Even though the supreme aim

of humans is to unite with God, Nanak knew this must be achieved while living

in a world that is real and full of perils. Therefore he guided his followers

to take a holistic view of life and try to understand human's place in the

divine scheme of things. By this he meant that each one of us has been blessed

with intellect and free will that give us the ability to discriminate and choose

a way of life that brings us closer to God.

 

The Guru did not propose denial, austerities, or animal sacrifices as a way

to salvation. His persuasion was for virtuous living, truthfulness and above

all breaking life's bondages with moderation and meditation. Finding Truth can

only be through living in Truth, Nanak said.

 

Nanak believed that a society can achieve greatness only if it is founded on

equality and justice for all. He opposed the then prevalent caste system and

the tyranny of the rulers against the weak and innocent. Despising war and the

terrible suffering it caused, the Guru even questioned God - "why do you bring

about wars if you feel their pain through thousands of innocent victims?"

 

The life and teachings of Nanak are quite unique in the sense that they are

very conducive to promoting inter-faith relations. Since Nanak was a good

practitioner and not a preacher extraordinaire or a prisoner of rituals - he

engaged leaders of many persuasions in his travel within India and abroad. The

"Sidh

Gost" section of Sikh Scriptures (Granth Sahib) has a detailed account of

questions and answers that Nanak addressed during hundreds of dialogues with the

"Sidhas," which is full of wisdom on both sides.

 

The Guru opened a Dharmshal at Kartarpur, Punjab, in 1521 that was open to

all. There he started the practice of morning and evening prayers and sang

Kirtan. By now his influence had grown and people in large numbers, came to

listen

to his message from far and near. Thus began a way of life of hours of

meditation that later included free food for all irrespective of whether they

attended the prayer sessions or not.

 

Nanak's Sikhism evolved with nine more Gurus who followed him. Collectively,

they preached and practiced the issues concerning right and wrong, good and

evil, virtue and vice to create a vision of a civil society that is rooted in

equality, justice, freedom and governed by principles of humility and strength

(Meree and Peree). [That vision closely resembles how America evolved and its

current system of values in my view!].

 

In closing, I will repeat the last words of the Sikh daily prayer (ARDAS)

that summarize Nanak's wisdom - TERE BHANE SARBAT DA BHALLA - I pray for the

well

being of everyone with your Grace (and not just me or the Sikhs alone).

 

Dave Anand

For his latest eBook, please visit:

 

<A

HREF="http://www.peoplesuperhighway.com/">http://www.PeopleSuperHighway.com</A>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> According to the "Grace School" only God's grace saves us.

According to

> the "Works School" only good works save us.

 

 

I dont think either of the above saves. For neither of the above

really destroys actions and by saving, I am taking to mean the

complete destruction of actions. The only thing that can really save

is Self-knowledge. As Krishna says - Wisdom fire reduces all actions

to ashes.

[Guest guest]

Dear Narayanaji,

 

Namaste.

 

 

-

narayana_kl_71

> According to the "Grace School" only God's grace saves us.

According to

> the "Works School" only good works save us.

 

I dont think either of the above saves. For neither of the above

really destroys actions and by saving, I am taking to mean the

complete destruction of actions. The only thing that can really save

is Self-knowledge. As Krishna says - Wisdom fire reduces all actions

to ashes.

---------------------

 

Action is inevitable.

Krishna himself says "na hi kashchit sreNam api.." - Gita 3.5 (Never, not even

for a moment, does one abide without performing action. One is compelled

irresistibly to action by guNas- the qualities-of nature).

Selfless action leads to anthakaraNa shuddhi (purification of the subtle body)

which makes an adhikAri out of a sAdhaka. So in a way action helps. That is why

one entire chapter to dedicated to karma-yoga in the Gita.

 

Hari Om

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ranjeetji,

 

Not all actions confer antahkarana shuddhi. Only those actions that are

dedicated to the lord and the reaction/result accepted as prasada will

confer Antahkara shuddhi. In short, Karma Yoga confers adhikaram NOT plain

Karmas.

 

best regards,

K Kathirasan

>

> Ranjeet Sankar [sMTP:thefinalsearch]

> Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:14 PM

> advaitin

> Re: Re: Grace

>

> Dear Narayanaji,

>

> Namaste.

>

>

> -

> narayana_kl_71

>

> > According to the "Grace School" only God's grace saves us.

> According to

> > the "Works School" only good works save us.

>

> I dont think either of the above saves. For neither of the above

> really destroys actions and by saving, I am taking to mean the

> complete destruction of actions. The only thing that can really save

> is Self-knowledge. As Krishna says - Wisdom fire reduces all actions

> to ashes.

> ---------------------

>

> Action is inevitable.

> Krishna himself says "na hi kashchit sreNam api.." - Gita 3.5 (Never, not

> even for a moment, does one abide without performing action. One is

> compelled irresistibly to action by guNas- the qualities-of nature).

> Selfless action leads to anthakaraNa shuddhi (purification of the subtle

> body) which makes an adhikAri out of a sAdhaka. So in a way action helps.

> That is why one entire chapter to dedicated to karma-yoga in the Gita.

>

> Hari Om

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

> Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

> http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

It is also done with the attitude "yogaha karmasu kaushalam"

That means any action done keeping in view the harmony of everything, also leads

to anthakaranashuddhi. Any evil action even if done with arpana budhi, will not

lead to anthakaranawhuddhi

Hari Om

Mani

 

K Kathirasan NCS <kkathir wrote:

Namaste Ranjeetji,

 

Not all actions confer antahkarana shuddhi. Only those actions that are

dedicated to the lord and the reaction/result accepted as prasada will

confer Antahkara shuddhi. In short, Karma Yoga confers adhikaram NOT plain

Karmas.

 

best regards,

K Kathirasan

>

> Ranjeet Sankar [sMTP:thefinalsearch]

> Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:14 PM

> advaitin

> Re: Re: Grace

>

> Dear Narayanaji,

>

> Namaste.

>

>

> -

> narayana_kl_71

>

> > According to the "Grace School" only God's grace saves us.

> According to

> > the "Works School" only good works save us.

>

> I dont think either of the above saves. For neither of the above

> really destroys actions and by saving, I am taking to mean the

> complete destruction of actions. The only thing that can really save

> is Self-knowledge. As Krishna says - Wisdom fire reduces all actions

> to ashes.

> ---------------------

>

> Action is inevitable.

> Krishna himself says "na hi kashchit sreNam api.." - Gita 3.5 (Never, not

> even for a moment, does one abide without performing action. One is

> compelled irresistibly to action by guNas- the qualities-of nature).

> Selfless action leads to anthakaraNa shuddhi (purification of the subtle

> body) which makes an adhikAri out of a sAdhaka. So in a way action helps.

> That is why one entire chapter to dedicated to karma-yoga in the Gita.

>

> Hari Om

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

> Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

> http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Kathirasanji,

 

That was what I meant by "Self-less action".

 

Anyway, thanks for the refinement.

 

Hari Om

 

-

K Kathirasan NCS

 

Not all actions confer antahkarana shuddhi. Only those actions that are

dedicated to the lord and the reaction/result accepted as prasada will

confer Antahkara shuddhi. In short, Karma Yoga confers adhikaram NOT plain

Karmas.

>

> Ranjeet Sankar [sMTP:thefinalsearch]

> Selfless action leads to anthakaraNa shuddhi (purification of the subtle

> body) which makes an adhikAri out of a sAdhaka. So in a way action helps.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ranjeetji,

 

I fail to understand the meaning of your mail in the given context.

May be it would help to note that Karma and Karma yoga are not the

same. Please clarify your point.

 

Lakshminarayana

>

>

> -

> narayana_kl_71

>

> > According to the "Grace School" only God's grace saves us.

> According to

> > the "Works School" only good works save us.

>

> I dont think either of the above saves. For neither of the above

> really destroys actions and by saving, I am taking to mean the

> complete destruction of actions. The only thing that can really

save

> is Self-knowledge. As Krishna says - Wisdom fire reduces all

actions

> to ashes.

> ---------------------

>

> Action is inevitable.

> Krishna himself says "na hi kashchit sreNam api.." - Gita 3.5

(Never, not even for a moment, does one abide without performing

action. One is compelled irresistibly to action by guNas- the

qualities-of nature).

> Selfless action leads to anthakaraNa shuddhi (purification of the

subtle body) which makes an adhikAri out of a sAdhaka. So in a way

action helps. That is why one entire chapter to dedicated to karma-

yoga in the Gita.

>

> Hari Om

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Narayanaji,

 

Namaste.

 

I will try to put in words what I had in mind.

 

The action is inevitable for all, except an enlightened one.

 

You are right. Karma and Karma-Yoga are not the same. Actions done with the

sense of doership is Karma and it is different from Karma-Yoga which is

Self-less actions done as per dharma. A Karma-yogi never expects results from

his actions. He accepts the result of his actions as a prasAdham from the lord.

So by following Karma-yoga, one purifies antakaraNa and become an adhikAri.

 

But as you rightly said, Wisdom reduces action to ashes. But that is the final

stage. Karma-yoga is the stepping stone in the evolution. Not everyone can

embrace renunciation on day one. Only a seleted few can. The others should

perform their Karma according to their dharma.

 

Krishna warns us when he says "na karmaNAmanAranbha..." - Gita 3.4 (Inaction

doesnt one lead to transcendence of action. Renunciation alone doesnt lead to

perfection.)

 

Arjuna himself is confused and so his question, "Lord, if Knowledge is superior

to action, then why are you asking me to engage in action?".

 

So what exactly is the way out?

 

Selfless action is the alternate way to those who cannot follow the path of

renunciation.

"kurvannE vEha karmANi.." - IshAvAsya (2)

 

While engaging in Karma-yoga, a time will come when the sAdhka gets the right

vision and he will fall at the feet of the Guru.

"parIksha lOkAn karmachithAn.." - Mundaka 1.2.12

 

So (Selfless)action has its own importance in the path to Self-realization.

 

I hope I was able to drive home the point.

 

Hari Om

 

 

-

narayana_kl_71

 

I fail to understand the meaning of your mail in the given context.

May be it would help to note that Karma and Karma yoga are not the

same. Please clarify your point.

 

Lakshminarayana

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ranjeetji,

 

Actually there is doership in both Karma and Karma Yoga. The only difference

being that the latter includes ishwara arpana buddhi and ishwara prasada

buddhi.

 

best regards,

K Kathirasan

>

> Ranjeet Sankar [sMTP:thefinalsearch]

> Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:02 PM

> advaitin

> Re: Re: Grace

>

> Dear Narayanaji,

>

> Namaste.

>

> I will try to put in words what I had in mind.

>

> The action is inevitable for all, except an enlightened one.

>

> You are right. Karma and Karma-Yoga are not the same. Actions done with

> the sense of doership is Karma and it is different from Karma-Yoga which

> is Self-less actions done as per dharma. A Karma-yogi never expects

> results from his actions. He accepts the result of his actions as a

> prasAdham from the lord. So by following Karma-yoga, one purifies

> antakaraNa and become an adhikAri.

>

> But as you rightly said, Wisdom reduces action to ashes. But that is the

> final stage. Karma-yoga is the stepping stone in the evolution. Not

> everyone can embrace renunciation on day one. Only a seleted few can. The

> others should perform their Karma according to their dharma.

>

> Krishna warns us when he says "na karmaNAmanAranbha..." - Gita 3.4

> (Inaction doesnt one lead to transcendence of action. Renunciation alone

> doesnt lead to perfection.)

>

> Arjuna himself is confused and so his question, "Lord, if Knowledge is

> superior to action, then why are you asking me to engage in action?".

>

> So what exactly is the way out?

>

> Selfless action is the alternate way to those who cannot follow the path

> of renunciation.

> "kurvannE vEha karmANi.." - IshAvAsya (2)

>

> While engaging in Karma-yoga, a time will come when the sAdhka gets the

> right vision and he will fall at the feet of the Guru.

> "parIksha lOkAn karmachithAn.." - Mundaka 1.2.12

>

> So (Selfless)action has its own importance in the path to

> Self-realization.

>

> I hope I was able to drive home the point.

>

> Hari Om

>

>

> -

> narayana_kl_71

>

> I fail to understand the meaning of your mail in the given context.

> May be it would help to note that Karma and Karma yoga are not the

> same. Please clarify your point.

>

> Lakshminarayana

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

> Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

> http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>