Love

[Guest guest]

This is one of my favorite

dialogues with

Sri Ramana Maharshi;

 

Q: Swami, it is good to love God, is it not?

 

Then why not follow the path of love?

 

Maharshi: “Who said you couldn’t follow it?

 

You can do so.

 

But when you talk of love,

 

there is duality,

 

is there not?-

 

the person who loves

 

and the entity called God who is loved?

 

The individual is not separate from God.

 

Hence love means one has love towards one’s own Self.”

 

Q: That is why I am asking you

 

whether God could be worshipped

 

through the path of love.

 

Maharshi:

 

“That is exactly what I have been saying.

 

Love itself is the actual form of God.

 

If by saying,

 

‘I do not love this, I do not love that’,

 

you reject all things,

 

that which remains is the real form of the Self.

 

That is pure bliss.

 

Call it pure bliss, God, Self, or what you will.

 

That is devotion,

 

that is realization and that is everything.

 

If you thus reject everything,

 

what remains is the Self alone.

 

That is real love.

 

One who knows the secret of that love

 

finds the world itself full of universal love.

 

The experience of not forgetting consciousness, alone,

 

is the state of devotion

 

which is the relationship of unfading real love,

 

because the real knowledge of Self,

 

which shines as the undivided supreme bliss itself,

 

surges up as the nature of love.

 

Only if one knows the truth of love,

 

which is the real nature of Self,

 

will the strong entangled knot of life be untied.

 

Only if one attains the height of love

 

will liberation be attained.

 

Such is the heart of all religions.

 

The experience of Self is only love,

 

which is seeing only love,

 

hearing only love,

 

feeling only love,

 

tasting only love

 

and smelling only love,

 

which is bliss.”

 

Take care,

 

with Love,

 

Michael L.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard

http://antispam./whatsnewfree

[Guest guest]

thank you so much for the post!

 

It is proverbial!!!

 

Lovealways

bhuvaneswar

 

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 Michael L. wrote :

>This is one of my favorite

>dialogues with

>Sri Ramana Maharshi;

>

>Q: Swami, it is good to love God, is it not?

>

>Then why not follow the path of love?

>

>Maharshi: “Who said you couldn’t follow it?

>

>You can do so.

>

>But when you talk of love,

>

>there is duality,

>

>is there not?-

>

>the person who loves

>

>and the entity called God who is loved?

>

>The individual is not separate from God.

>

>Hence love means one has love towards one’s own Self.”

>

>Q: That is why I am asking you

>

>whether God could be worshipped

>

>through the path of love.

>

>Maharshi:

>

>“That is exactly what I have been saying.

>

>Love itself is the actual form of God.

>

>If by saying,

>

>‘I do not love this, I do not love that’,

>

>you reject all things,

>

>that which remains is the real form of the Self.

>

>That is pure bliss.

>

>Call it pure bliss, God, Self, or what you will.

>

>That is devotion,

>

>that is realization and that is everything.

>

>If you thus reject everything,

>

>what remains is the Self alone.

>

>That is real love.

>

>One who knows the secret of that love

>

>finds the world itself full of universal love.

>

>The experience of not forgetting consciousness, alone,

>

>is the state of devotion

>

>which is the relationship of unfading real love,

>

>because the real knowledge of Self,

>

>which shines as the undivided supreme bliss itself,

>

>surges up as the nature of love.

>

>Only if one knows the truth of love,

>

>which is the real nature of Self,

>

>will the strong entangled knot of life be untied.

>

>Only if one attains the height of love

>

>will liberation be attained.

>

>Such is the heart of all religions.

>

>The experience of Self is only love,

>

>which is seeing only love,

>

>hearing only love,

>

>feeling only love,

>

>tasting only love

>

>and smelling only love,

>

>which is bliss.”

>

>Take care,

>

>with Love,

>

>Michael L.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard

>http://antispam./whatsnewfree

>

>

>Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

>Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

>To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

>Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Nair,

 

In your mail to Dennis, you have wondered why Shri Atmanadaji had not

talked much about devotion or love. You will see the answer below

from Ramana Maharshi. Thanks Michael for sharing it with us.

 

praNAms,

Venkat

 

advaitin, "Michael L." <uarelove> wrote:

This is one of my favorite dialogues with Sri Ramana Maharshi;

 

Q: Swami, it is good to love God, is it not? Then why not follow the

path of love?

 

Maharshi: "Who said you couldn't follow it? You can do so.

But when

you talk of love, there is duality, is there not?- the person who

loves and the entity called God who is loved? The individual is not

separate from God. Hence love means one has love towards one's

own

Self."

 

Q: That is why I am asking you whether God could be worshipped

through the path of love.

 

Maharshi: "That is exactly what I have been saying. Love itself

is

the actual form of God. If by saying, `I do not love this, I do

not

love that', you reject all things, that which remains is the real

form of the Self. That is pure bliss. Call it pure bliss, God, Self,

or what you will. That is devotion, that is realization and that is

everything. If you thus reject everything, what remains is the Self

alone. That is real love. One who knows the secret of that love finds

the world itself full of universal love. The experience of not

forgetting consciousness, alone, is the state of devotion which is

the relationship of unfading real love, because the real knowledge of

Self, which shines as the undivided supreme bliss itself, surges up

as the nature of love. Only if one knows the truth of love, which is

the real nature of Self, will the strong entangled knot of life be

untied. Only if one attains the height of love will liberation be

attained. Such is the heart of all religions. The experience of Self

is only love, which is seeing only love, hearing only love, feeling

only love, tasting only love and smelling only love, which is

bliss."

 

Take care,

with Love,

Michael L.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Venkatji.

 

In my post to Dennisji, I only endeavoured to highlight (a)the

oneness of devotee and the object of devotion stressed in traditional

practices, (b) the importance of such undivided devotion in advaitic

sAdhana and © the lack of attention such devotion receives in Shri

Atamandandaji's teachings.

 

As a bhakta, I understand, advaita is undivided devotion where

devotee and deity have vanished in the Oneness of Love. In Shri

Michael's quote, even Bh. Ramana had to begin his construct from the

duality of devotee, love and God.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

____________________

 

 

advaitin, "S. Venkatraman" <svenkat52>

wrote:

> In your mail to Dennis, you have wondered why Shri Atmanadaji had

not

> talked much about devotion or love. You will see the answer below

> from Ramana Maharshi. Thanks Michael for sharing it with us.

[Guest guest]

In Michael L.'s apt quote about love, from Ramana Maharshi, I was

struck by the following description of how jnyana relates to bhakti:

 

"The experience of not forgetting consciousness, alone, is the state

of devotion ... [in which] the real knowledge of Self ... surges up

as the nature of love."

 

That surging up of real knowledge is what Shri Atmananda

called 'vidya-vritti' (literally the 'functioning of knowledge')

or 'higher reason'. And Shri Atmananda was equally clear that it

comes from love for truth. He pointed here to a stanza from Shri

Shankara's Viveka-cudamani (31):

 

moksha-sAdhana-sAmagryAm bhaktir eva garIyasI

sva-svarupAnusandhAnam bhaktir ity abhidhIyate

 

(In textbooks that I've seen recently, 'sAdhana' in the first line is

replaced by 'kAraNa'. The above is what I heard from an elder

disciple, Nitya Tripta.)

 

Freely translated, the stanza says:

 

Among all ways of striving to be free,

it's love that is the best, one must agree.

To question one's own truth, to ask what's there,

that is the love of those who ask with care.

 

Thus, as for Ramana Maharshi and Shri Shankara, love and devotion

have a central place in Shri Atmananda's approach. In the field of

traditional bhakti, he composed a Malayalam work called 'Radha-

madhavam', about the non-dual culmination of Radha's love for

Krishna. And he made it clear that bhakti is the only remedy for the

troubles and limitations encountered by the yogic expansion of

intuition and the jnyana use of intellect.

 

In particular, for those on the jnyana path, he said that it is only

bhakti which can take dry ideas and arguments to living truth. Such

ideas and arguments work only as expressions of a love affair with

truth.

 

As the affair proceeds, what else but love can inspire ego to give up

all partialities, in search of an utterly impartial truth? And how

else can the affair come to fulfilment, if not in non-dual happiness,

where known and knower are at one?

 

It's only there that discerning reason finds its end, as it is joined

by love. That is the meeting point of head and heart, at which all

differences discerned are found at last resolved. It can't of course

be described at a distance, but only found by being there, by

realizing what one is and has always been.

 

Ananda

[Guest guest]

--- Ananda Wood <awood wrote:

Namaste Ananda,

Further to your excellent quote I am posting below

something from the life of the late Papa Ramdas of

Anandashram. Having discovered the Kaivalya Upanishad

I had long wondered about devotion in advaita. The

following, which I have probably posted before, was a

help because it seemed so delightful. As always, it is

an account with particular resonance for those present

and is not to be picked apart out of its context. I

personally feel that Papa Ramdas gives us enough

through this dialogue to further the study of

Shankara's advaita.

 

Best wishes

 

ken Knight

 

'After the evening bhajan, Joshiji and other devotees

were sitting before Papa in the bhajan-hall. Joshiji

had certain doubts. He asked Papa about renunciation.

Joshiji had been a follower of the path of bhakti,

trying his best to lead the life of a true

householder. He was not at first assailed by doubts as

to the efficacy of his path. But, after he came into

contact with that sannyasi friend and heard his talks

on jnana yoga he was beginning to feel disturbed. He

wanted to get the matter cleared up, and requested

Papa to remove his lingering doubts.

 

Papa “Never think that you are the perishable body.

Always identify yourself with the Spirit, the

imperishable, changeless Atman. When you fully realise

that you are the Atman and not the body—which you can

do only after practising long dissociation from the

body—you will not be bound by anything. You are then

free. As a true householder, you are to consider that

the whole of your property, your wife and children

belong to God and that you are only His agent,

entrusted by Him with the task of running the

household. This is the right spirit in which a

householder should carry on his duties. If you are

able to adopt this attitude, why should you have to

become a sannyasi? Is not every one in your household,

verily, the manifestation of Brahman? You cannot

easily give up the world as mere illusion. As long as

the ego-sense is alive in you, the world is real to

you. Having the body-idea you cannot say, ‘I am

Brahman.’ And, after all, renunciation is only a means

to an end. You have ultimately to realise the whole

universe as the manifestation of the Lord, as a part

of His lila. Through bhakti you attain jnana and after

attaining jnana, you have to go still beyond that to

what is called para-bhakti. A mere jnani says the

whole universe is an illusion. But one who has reached

the plane of para-bhakti sees the whole universe as

Brahman. Then he does not call it an illusion, but as

the Lord’s lila, though at the same time, he knows the

play to be impermanent and transitory and so does not

get entangled in it.

 

“So if a householder is able to lead a purely detached

life, with the full consciousness that Brahman alone

is real and that the whole universe, including his own

family and possessions, are nothing but manifestations

of God, he will realise Him. There is no need for such

a one to renounce the family, as he is fully aware of

the impermanence of the world and is not deceived by

this passing show. He is absolutely detached and so is

happy under all conditions. Whether his relations live

or die, whether his business fails or flourishes, he

ever remains happy and cheerful, being firmly

established in the consciousness of the divine.”

It was about 7 o’clock in the morning. Joshiji was

sitting in front of Papa when S. entered the

bhajan-haII. Joshiji was continuing yesterday’s

di~cussion with Papa on jnana.

Papa said “Jnana is born in the womb of bhakti and

protected by bhakti. The jnanis say that the universe

is an illusion. When Ramdas was once in Mount Abu, he

was taken to a mahatma living there, known as Swami

Kaivalyananda. Going near the mahatma, Ramdas

prostrated before him. The latter sprang up and asked

Ramdas, ‘To whom are you prostrating?’ Ramdas replied,

‘Ramdas is prostrating to Ram.’ He asked again, ‘Are

you not the same Ram?’ Ramdas said, ‘Yes, Ram is in

Ramdas also. He knows he is one with Ram, but at the

same time, he wants to be His child and prostrate to

Him as a child does to its mother.’ Swami

Kaivalyananda said, ‘Oh, that is all false. The whole

universe is an illusion. There is only one, no two’.”

 

The Gospel of Swami Ramdas

 

 

 

 

Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard

http://antispam./whatsnewfree