Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Dear All, I had asked honourable learned members on the following verses of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharishi which says "According to one's prarabda god ordains things in life,so u cannot by ur effort make things come to faster or the opposite. Hence the best way is to remain silent. My question is " has this been said of for life or sadhana" Please help KAmesh B Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Namaste: This has been said for our Living which is our sadhana! What Sri Ramana Maharishi has said is also implied by Gita Verse (Chapter 2, Verse 47) on Karma Yoga. Conduct your duties (work or action) with the yagana spirit and accept the outcome of such duties as His Prasad! The English saying, "Man proposes and God disposes" is also on the same line. regards, Ram Chandran regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, kamesh ratnam <kameshratnam> wrote: > Dear All, > "According to one's prarabda god ordains things in > life,so u cannot by ur effort make things come to > faster or the opposite. Hence the best way is to > remain silent. > > My question is " has this been said of for life or > sadhana" > > Please help > > > KAmesh B > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 --- kamesh ratnam <kameshratnam wrote: > Dear All, > > I had asked honourable learned members on the > following verses of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharishi > which says > > "According to one's prarabda god ordains things in > life,so u cannot by ur effort make things come to > faster or the opposite. Hence the best way is to > remain silent. > > My question is " has this been said of for life or > sadhana" > > Please help > > > KAmesh B Shree KAmesh To me the statement of Bhagavan is clear but not your question. The statement says about prarabda. Prarabda is result of the actions I have performed in the past. God is karmaphala daata - he gives or ordains the results for actions. The results are determined by the laws of creation such as, for example gravitation law etc. So if I throw a stone, the action is done - the results come after the action. Hence from results point the action is past. The laws - gravitational forces, frictional forces etc, determine the trajectory of the stone, and He is the author of the laws. If you apply this in general, God ordains the results according to ones prarabda. Since one has no control on the results, he cannot by his efforts change the results of previous actions. There is of course a clause in this - if I throw a stone and as the laws determine the trajectory of it. I can now throw another stone faster in such a way to diver the direction of the previous stone while it is still flying. For that my next action should be very calculated one. Even there, I have a choice in the action and the results of that action too are dictated by laws I have no control. So if you know precisely what the previous action was, and now you can repair action to reduce or change the results of the previous action. These are called prayachitta karma-s (repair actions) - For example to say - I am sorry - if I have offended someone by my previous action. Even here I have no control on the results - that is whether the offended person is going to excuse me or not. But the role of prayachitta karma is relieve me from the burden of guilt feelings. Hence in puja - there is sankalpa - samasta durita kshayaartham aham idam puujaam karishye - for the elimination of all the sins that I have performed I am doing this puja. If one does the puja mechanically - nothing happens. But if one does with devotion and has faith that Lord removes the sins then he is free from those since mentally he has full faith that Lord has removed. This is autosuggestion. The mind is now fresh or free - not for committing more sins but for learning or inquiry. Hence during sandhya vandanam - this is exactly what is chanted - suuryascha ....... paapebhyo rakshantaam .... Let my sins committed during the night/day be relieved - so that the mind is fresh for gayatree upaasana. Remaining silent is not at speech level. Here Bhagavan is referring to at the mental level. No more regrets of the past, excitement about present or worries of future - that is the calm, serene mind needed to inquire with in "who am I?' That is the silence to discover the silence within. Hence in the beginning it is for saadhana - in the end, that is the end. The dynamic life in the background of silence within. Hari OM! Sadananda ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 advaitin, kamesh ratnam <kameshratnam> wrote: > Dear All, > > I had asked honourable learned members on the > following verses of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharishi > which says > > "According to one's prarabda god ordains things in > life,so u cannot by ur effort make things come to > faster or the opposite. Hence the best way is to > remain silent. > > My question is " has this been said of for life or > sadhana" > > Please help > > > KAmesh B > Dear Kamesh: After some time had passed after Sri Ramana had left home, his mother wanted him to return home. Therefore in the passages to follow "she" refers to Alagammal, Sri Ramana's mother. "Swami" referes to Sri Ramana Maharshi, who had not yet been given the name Sri Ramana Maharshi at that early time. The following comes from the book "Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Self Knowledge" by Arthur Osborne: Another day she enlisted the sympathy of the devotees who had gathered around, pouring out her grief to them and beseeching them to intervene. One of them, Pahcaiyappa Pillai, said to the Swami: "Your mother is weeping and praying; why do you not at least give her an answer? Whether it is 'yes' or 'no' you can reply to her. Swami need not break his vow of silence. Here are pencil and paper; Swami can at least write what he has to say." He took the pencil and paper and, in utterly impersonal language, wrote: "The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their prarabhakarma (destiny to be worked out in this life, resulting from the balance-sheet of actions in past lives). Whatever is destined not to happen, will not happen, try as you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to prevent it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent." I have never seen the quote you site above, however this is the closest quote to it. Regarding your question does it apply to Sadhana, Sri Ramana Maharshi spent 50 years teaching that it does not apply to your Sadhana. However, Sri Ramana prefered to speak of inquiry and not Sadhana. In other words Sri Ramana prefered not to class inquiry with forms of Sadhana. So, to be more accurate, Sri Ramana spent 50 years teaching that other than self-inquiry there are no adequate means and that your effort is essential and indispensable. In order to understand his teachings, it is very important to understand the context in which Sri Ramana's verbal or written response arose in. In other words it is important to understand the questioners question. In the above quoted passage, the mother wishes her son to return home, and she is very upset about it. The goal is therefore what to say to the mother so she will not be so upset and that she will accept the fact that Sri Ramana is not coming home. The answer fits that goal perfectly. Since Sri Ramana taught for 50 years that Self-inquiry is the only effective means, and since in the case of almost all humans the ego's goal is to preserve its imaginary self and to avoid such inquiry, the first job of the ego is to move away from the teaching that self-inquiry is the only effective means. In other words, since the ego in almost all humans wants to preserve its imaginary self, and since according to Sri Ramana, self-inquiry is the only means that will pose any real threat to that ego, the ego's first job is to find a way to move away from the practice of self-inquiry. There are thousands of pages of Sri Ramana's teachings in books, and Sri Ramana said many, many things. If one does not take a close look at the context and question that was asked, Sri Ramana's teachings would look like an endless sea of contradictions. This provides a fertile field for the ego that wants to preserve its imgaginary self, and with only a few exceptions, all humans, including those who study Sri Ramana's teachings have an ego that wishes to preserve its imaginary self. So what does the ego do? It moves from the practice of Self-inquiry to something else. The something else can be to focus on something else Sri Ramana said in reply to some particular question or circumstance of the seeker. Whatever the something else be, be assured, in the case of almost all humans, something else besides the practice of self-inquiry will be found to focus the attention on, and this includes those who study the teachings of Sri Ramana. Thus Sri Muruganar's warning from the Garland of Guru's (Sri Ramana Maharshi's saying): 1106: "The sage's pure mind which beholds as a mere witnesss the whole world is like a mirror which reflects the foolish thoughts of those who come before him. And these thoughts are then mistaken to be his." It is not difficult for one with an intense desire for liberation to discern the difference between the foolish thoughts of those who came before him from Sri Ramana's teaching. Most people do not have an intense desire for liberation. It is very difficult for one who does not have an intense desire for liberation to make such a discernment. Because when the desire for liberation is weak, the ego directs thought away from that which is essential and which is a threat to it, towards that which is not essential and which is not a threat to it. People are in the habit of believing their own thoughts and the arguments and reasons the ego produces, thus without an intense desire for liberation, it is almost certain that a person will be focussing on that which is not essential. The cure for this is to find a way to increase the desire for liberation. The intense desire for liberation itself, will then allow one to see how the ego was directing one towards the inessential. Then the intellectual interest in spiritual teachings disappears, and focus on practice begins. I have created the Discern for the specific purpose of taking one of Sri Ramana Maharshi's talks at a time and demonstrating the process of how to distinguish the reflection of the foolish thoughts of those who came before him, as per Sri Muruganar's warning, from the Teachings of Sri Ramana. Also to demonstrate with many specific examples, exactly how the ego, as a preservation strategy, leads one away from the essential to the inessential. I have created the Foundation page for the same purpose and soon I will begin looking at Sri Ramana's Teachings there also. Before the intense desire for freedom arose in me, I was lost in indirect and intellectual spirituality, for 25 years, reading around 2000 books. I thought that I already had an intense desire for liberation during that period of time and I thought that liberation was my motive for reading all those books. However, I now see that reading all those books had nothing to do with a desire for liberation. Now I am able to see all those ego preservation strategies that I could not see before. The intense desire for liberation changes everything. Mostly before the intense desire for liberation arises, the ego wants to run away from the essential or create arguments against the essential. The difference in outlook is quite extraordinary. Sri Ramana said he was quite fortunate that his previous tendencies led him directly to inquiry. He says that if he had been interested in the study of spiritual philosophy he would probably have been lost always in confusion. Although it is quite unfortunate that I wasted 25 years reading spiritual books, it is quite fortunate that the desire for freedom arose and put an end to the intellectual interest. What lead to the intense desire for freedom was looking at what the consequences would be if the ego did not end and what they would be if the ego did end. Honesty was and is the key. That honesty includes being willing to look at the strategies the ego is using to preserve its imaginary self. Before the desire for liberation arose, spirituality was conceptual. It came from reading, discussing, thinking, and a little debating too. Afterwards, it was just a demand to find the essetial without letting the thoughts and arugments the ego was producing tell me what was or was not essential. The desire for the Realization of Truth with a capital T is intimately related to self-honesty with a small h. One of these days I am going to put something called the Sri Nisargadatta test on my web site. It will be a look at what Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj's Guru told him and how Sri Nisargadatta describes his percpeption of those instructions and what he actually did with those intructions. Then to describe the difference in what almost all humans do with similar instructions. It will then be easy to see why the results Sri Nisargadatta got were so different from the results most people get. Take care, with Love, Michael L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Dear Kamesh: To clarify these points a bit further: Assuming for the moment that the quote you posted was a paraphrased version of the actual quote which I posted, then the answer to the question, does this apply to life or Sadhana, is: It applies to the particular circumstances of Alagammal's life at that particular moment in time. It does not apply to anyone else's Sadhana or life. So if the question is, does it apply to our Sadhana or life, the anwswer is neither. If one happens to have a son or daughter that has left home, one might apply that quote to that circumstance, however, even that could be a huge error. Sri Ramana knew the circumstances of his mother and the prescription he gave her may or may not be a good prescription for someone whose child has left home for some other reason. This answer was an answer that was the perfect answer to Alagammal's situation at the time. Eventually, later, she realized that it was foolish to think that Sri Ramana might return home. Yet a further development occurred many years later when Alagammal moved to Tiruvannamalai. So later she saw the wisdom of living in close proximity to Sri Ramana. The answer to the question about Sri Ramana returning home is a bit like a doctors prescription. The doctor being Sri Ramana and the patient being Alagammal. Once the prescription has served its purpose, the best place for the prescription is in the garbage can. Because, otherwise some person might later find that prescription, and not realizing what ailment it was prescribed for, do a self diagnosis and take the prescribed medicine with disastrous consequences. Fortunately there are large records of conversations with Sri Ramana, covering many years, such as in the book "Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi", where we can see both the question and the answer to be able to see whether the advice was being given to a particular problem or whether the question was about liberation and the means to liberation. We can also see if the questioner suggested some method to Sri Ramana or if the questioner gave an open question so that we can see what Sri Ramana's answer is. By taking a close look at both the question asked, and the answer given one can distinguish Sri Ramana's advice on the means to liberation from thousands of other detours that do not have anything to do with liberation. One can also see what advice was given repeatedly to almost everyone who came to Sri Ramana, and what advice was only given very rarely. This also helps one to separate the indvidual prescriptions from the advice that applies to all. This also helps to clear up the apparent contradictions. One can also discern the reflection of the foolish thoughts of those who came before Sri Ramana from Sri Ramana's Teachings, by paying close attention to the question given and how the answer given relates to that question. These are some of the ways also that the essential can be discerned from the inessential. Because of the failure to use such discernment, most of what is called Sri Ramana's teaching is not Sri Ramana's teaching. If the passage you quoted was not a paraphrased version of the passage I quoted, then to understand the passage, we would have to at least see the question and the answer, etc. However, my guess is that the passage you quoted is a paraphrased version of the passage I quoted. Take care, with Love, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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