Shri Atmananda's teachings -- 5. All objects point to consciousness

[Guest guest]

Hi Dennis,

 

Let me try to answer your point, even though it was to Ananda! You observe,

>I seem to be missing the logic of your next assertions, however. You say "No

>perception, thought or feeling can actually leave consciousness and go

>outside. When any such appearance goes out of consciousness, the appearance

>disappears immediately." Surely all you are doing is saying what the words

>mean?

 

Yes, it comes down to this, that he is reiterating what the words mean. But I

think the reason he phrased it that way, "no thought leaves consciousness and

goes outside" is to drive home the parallel between the thought and the tree.

Sometimes, when one examines thoughts and their nature, there's a lingering

suspicion that they go somewhere when they are not noticed. As if they go to

some holding tank, like the unconscious, waiting to arise again. That's

parallel to the physical realist's (i.e., most peoples') feeling that the chair

is really out there waiting for perception to come into contact with it. And as

you said, this makes no sense.

 

>So all that this shows is that (according to dictionary

>definition) there are no percepts, thoughts or feelings outside of

>consciousness. And 'Nothing else is ever shown, in anyone's experience"

>because no one sees anything without being conscious. Back where we started.

 

We never leave where we started!

 

You say, "there are no percepts, thoughts or feelings outside of

consciousness." And for this very reason, there are no thoughts or feelings

inside consciousness either!

 

Pranams,

 

--Greg

[Guest guest]

Namaste, all respected members,

 

What is the locus of “existence”?

 

One of the Parampara or Traditional Prakriya about unfolding Atma is as follows.

There are of course other Prakriyas such as Avastha Thraya, Pancha Kosha, etc.

 

Let us analyze the following:

 

“Shirt is”, “Pot is”, “necklace is”, “ring is”, “body is”, “mind is”

“consciousness is” “I is (am)” “you is (are)”

 

IS, IS, IS, IS this “isness” can never be absent.

 

Shirt is, because fabric is, fabric is, because threads is (are), thread is,

because filaments is, filaments is, because cotton is, etc. you can go on

continue till atom is, and atom is because neutron and protons are, and you can

still further go. However this IS OR ISNESS IS NEVER ABSENT. This isness or IS

is Existence which is inseparable from any perception, and Perception itself is

“is”!. Even absence is “is”.

 

Similar way we can analyze the other few examples quoted above, and also

everything and reduce them to IS i.e. existence principle.

 

Body is, because the five elements are, the gross elements are because the

subtle elements are, subtle elements are be cause ……we can go on reducing them.

 

This ISNESS or Existence is the Swaroopa, which never changes. Not only that

this isness is knowledge itself and that is why we know of this isness pervading

everything/everywhere. The isness and knowledge of isness cannot be separated

and both are always there. Just like Existence, Knowledge is also Swaroopa of

everything. It is in unmanifested form.

 

When Nama and Roopa get superimposed on this Existence and Knowledge, we get

manifested forms just like anything we come across in life.

 

These two characteristics i.e. Swaroopa pervades everywhere and everything and

the nama, roopa with any kriya guna, etc. superimposed on them, and we have

Mithyas, as they have no independent existence without the Swaroopa i.e.

Existence and Knowledge.

 

When it comes to Consciousness and I also if we analyze we will see

 

“Consciousness is, because I is” and “I is because consciousness is”,

consciousness and I or Atma go together, i.e. one cannot be present without the

other being there, because I is self efflugent, or shining of its own, and.

 

Since this I or Atma is consciousness and existence or knowledge and existence,

the locus or substratum of everything seen and unseen objects is nothing but

Atma, or I, or Consciousness and Existence, and again since Consciousness and

Existence is never absent, it is eternal or since they pervade everything,

usually quoted “Brahmaji to a blade of grass”, they rather It is formless also

as all forms have as their substratum Atma or I or Existence & Consciousness

(Knowledge).

 

So there is Atma or I only i.e. Consciousness and Existence only. This Atma is

full or Poorna as it pervades everything and since it is Poorna it is complete

lacking nothing and therefore Ananda.

 

The learned members may kindly correct my understanding.

 

Hari Om

 

R.S.Mani

 

 

 

 

Ananda Wood <awood wrote:Namaste Shri Madathil Nair and Michael L.,

 

I fully agree with Shri Madathil (22 Nov) that:

 

"In fact, there is nothing 'traditional' in advaita. It is always

fresh."Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Respected ManiJi:

 

In my view the answer is "puriSete iti purushaH"

 

That "I" or "Consciousness" as you have put it. Is the purusha.

This is at the center of every individual thing. As you know the

ultimate center (axis) does not rotate with the wheel. It remains

steady and around which rest rotates.

 

For individual (animate or inanimate) entities such a center is it's

own "atma" and the "atma" of all entities is "paramaatmaa".

 

To get out of this repeated circular motion (cycle) is what is

moksha. All the manifestitations are "a.nsha" of that "pursusha"

which is part and the parcel of the whole thing incuding the

manifestitation, but has still managed to remain steady (accuta) as

the center of it and is not affected by anything.

 

This is my simplistic answer.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

=================================================

 

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

>

>

>

> Namaste, all respected members,

>

> What is the locus of "existence"?

>

> One of the Parampara or Traditional Prakriya about unfolding Atma

is as follows. There are of course other Prakriyas such as Avastha

Thraya, Pancha Kosha, etc.

>

> Let us analyze the following:

>

> "Shirt is", "Pot is", "necklace is", "ring is", "body is", "mind

isconsciousness isI is (am)you is (are)"

>

> IS, IS, IS, IS this "isness" can never be absent.

>

> Shirt is, because fabric is, fabric is, because threads is (are),

thread is, because filaments is, filaments is, because cotton is,

etc. you can go on continue till atom is, and atom is because neutron

and protons are, and you can still further go. However this IS OR

ISNESS IS NEVER ABSENT. This isness or IS is Existence which is

inseparable from any perception, and Perception itself is "is"!. Even

absence is "is".

>

> Similar way we can analyze the other few examples quoted above, and

also everything and reduce them to IS i.e. existence principle.

>

> Body is, because the five elements are, the gross elements are

because the subtle elements are, subtle elements are be cause ……we

can go on reducing them.

>

> This ISNESS or Existence is the Swaroopa, which never changes. Not

only that this isness is knowledge itself and that is why we know of

this isness pervading everything/everywhere. The isness and knowledge

of isness cannot be separated and both are always there. Just like

Existence, Knowledge is also Swaroopa of everything. It is in

unmanifested form.

>

> When Nama and Roopa get superimposed on this Existence and

Knowledge, we get manifested forms just like anything we come across

in life.

>

> These two characteristics i.e. Swaroopa pervades everywhere and

everything and the nama, roopa with any kriya guna, etc. superimposed

on them, and we have Mithyas, as they have no independent existence

without the Swaroopa i.e. Existence and Knowledge.

>

> When it comes to Consciousness and I also if we analyze we will see

>

> "Consciousness is, because I is" and "I is because consciousness

is", consciousness and I or Atma go together, i.e. one cannot be

present without the other being there, because I is self efflugent,

or shining of its own, and.

>

> Since this I or Atma is consciousness and existence or knowledge

and existence, the locus or substratum of everything seen and unseen

objects is nothing but Atma, or I, or Consciousness and Existence,

and again since Consciousness and Existence is never absent, it is

eternal or since they pervade everything, usually quoted "Brahmaji to

a blade of grass", they rather It is formless also as all forms have

as their substratum Atma or I or Existence & Consciousness

(Knowledge).

>

> So there is Atma or I only i.e. Consciousness and Existence only.

This Atma is full or Poorna as it pervades everything and since it is

Poorna it is complete lacking nothing and therefore Ananda.

>

> The learned members may kindly correct my understanding.

>

> Hari Om

>

> R.S.Mani

>

>

>

>

> Ananda Wood <awood@v...> wrote:Namaste Shri Madathil Nair and

Michael L.,

>

> I fully agree with Shri Madathil (22 Nov) that:

>

> "In fact, there is nothing 'traditional' in advaita. It is always

> fresh."

> Sponsor

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of

nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at:

advaitin/messages

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now

>

>