Nisargadatta and Lineages

[Guest guest]

--- Benjamin <orion777ben wrote:

>> Regarding Nisargadatta, I just want to say that he was highly

> recommended to me by Sadanandaji of this list. I guess Sadaji can

> speak for himself, but I don't want people to think that I pulled

> Nisargadatta out of a hat.

>

> Hari Om!

> Benjamin

 

 

 

Benjamin - I am not so sure who gets qualified to be an advaitin. One

who says, "I am that" - has to be advaitin as per Vedic scriptures.

Guuruparampara and sampradaaya (lineage of teacher-student) and

tradition helps a student to establish faith in that teacher. That is

what is required in the beginning.

 

I have stated before the right teacher is the one who directs his

disciple to the scriptures and not to himself.

 

But tradition is also that we accept all teachings that are inline with

the scriptures. Bhagavaan Ramana Maharshi's teachings or Nisargadatta

Maharaja's teaching clearly falls in line with the scriptures especially

from the essential points. When they are fully established in that state

as the very teaching shows, its becomes our ignorance of the nature of

reality that tends to classify them whether they are advaitins or not.

 

When one reads even Peace Pilgrim - the American lady who traveled in

America in 50's - you can see the her vision of the Advaitic state. Was

she advaitin - or does it matter?

 

Is JK advaitin - when he talks about the absolute truth - it is not much

different from Advaitic understanding of the truth? But only when it

comes to saadhana - gurus and scriptures and the way he projected to his

audience that may not be in parallel to the scriptural texts. So we

discard that which does not agree and take which agrees with the

pramaaNa. In that sense only the scriptures provide a better universal

reference than individual experiences and teachings.

>From the historical perspective, this advaitin list formed out of

advaitaL list only because, in an attempt to be open and not to restrict

the adviatic teachings that did not look very traditional from the

lineage of the traditionalists.

 

For me everybody is an advaitin - whether they recognize it or not!

since they are looking for themselves - that is unlimited happiness.

 

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

=====

What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift

to Him - Swami Chinmayananda.

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sadanandaji,

>For me everybody is an advaitin - whether they recognize it or not!

>since they are looking for themselves - that is unlimited happiness.

 

 

Sadanandaji, notwithstanding your faithfulness and devotion to the

Hindu scriptures, you are an quite a tolerant, open-minded and

enlightened person, in the best Hindu tradition! :-)

 

And please don't get me wrong. It is a blessing to the earth that

there are still bonafide 110% astikas, who keep this precious

tradition alive. My congratulations to you.

 

I would call myself '95% astika'. I think that is good enough for a

non-Indian who came to Advaita only a couple of years ago. And

people with a healthy dose of skepticism such as myself also have a

valuable role to play. It is good to have people who say, 'Show it

to me' and 'Prove it to me'. Unfortunately, I'll need to get holier

first, before I truly understand.

 

It takes all kinds to make the world go around ... perhaps even

George Bush's 'evildoers' ... which I hope none of us are! :-)

 

By the way, the overlap between Shankara, Ramana, Nisargadatta, the

Yoga Vasistha and the Upanishads is so great, in my opinion, that the

differences are trivial. Just my opinion. Maybe my brain is melting

with age. That could also lead me to realization... :-)

 

Hari Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

--- Benjamin <orion777ben wrote:

 

Thanks Benjamin for your kind words. I hope to grow to deserve all that

you mentioned. Truth is one, but one can sing in many ways - and that

is what Hindu scriptures, that I am adicted to, says too!

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

 

 

=====

What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift

to Him - Swami Chinmayananda.

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sadanandaji,

>Thanks Benjamin for your kind words. I hope to grow

>to deserve all that you mentioned. Truth is one, but one

>can sing in many ways - and that is what Hindu scriptures,

>that I am adicted to, says too!

 

 

Does this mean there is some hope for the Dvaitins? :-)

No wait ... I didn't say that. Please ignore this message.

 

Hari Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

As there has been some discussion about lineages and the Master's

word lately, I thought some people might enjoy this discription of

the teachings of Shri Siddharameshwar Maharaj, the guru of

Nisargadatta and Ranjit Maharaj.

 

Below is a description of the "bird's way" which was discovered by

Shri Siddharameshwar Maharaj. He was reputed to have had at least 25

enlightened disciples, the most well-known of whom are Nisargadatta

Maharaj and Ranjit Maharaj. The description of the "bird's way" is

taken from the book "Illusion vs. Reality Dialogues with Shri Ranjit

Maharaj on the Stateless State."

 

Those of you who met Ranjit Maharaj, may appreciate his unique way of

expressing himself. Maharaj was a genuine Master, kind, generous and

patient with the infinite questions of all those who came to his

satsangs. Only existing to reply. And when a stroke left him

paralyzed and incomprehensible in October of 2000, he just gestured,

that the body should go. It had no further purpose, and so it went.

 

He started teaching westerners at age 84 through a "chance" visit to

the US, and continued until his last breath at age 87. For others

who did not meet Ranjit Maharaj, perhaps you will enjoy this recent

description of the history Nisargadatta's guru and lineage (the

Navnath Sampradaya). More information on Shri Ranjit Maharaj can be

found at www.sadguru.com.

 

----

 

May 3, 1998

 

Question to Ranjit Maharaj: When you initiate people with a mantra

is that enough to take someone to the reality?

 

Ranjit Maharaj: There are two ways to realize: the bird's way or

ant's way. By meditation (or ant's way) one can realize. The word

or name has so much power. The name you were given by your parents

has done so many things. Mantra is given by the master, but it is a

very long way for the understanding. By chanting or saying the

mantra you can go to the final reality….There are only two things:

one is reality, the other is illusion. One word only can wipe out

illusion.

 

So one thought [i.e. mantra] from the Master who has realized is

sufficient to realize. It is a very lengthy way, that's the only

thing. So my Master found the shortest way, by thinking. By

unthinking you have become the smallest creature, and by thinking you

can become the greatest of the great, why not? If you don't have the

capacity to understand by thinking, the bird's way, then you can go

by way of meditation. It is the long way and you have to meditate

for many hours a day. People say they meditate, but most don't know

how to meditate. They say that God is one and myself is another one,

that is the duality. It will never end that way.

 

So one word is sufficient from the Master. Words can cut words,

thoughts can cut thoughts in a fraction of a second. It can take you

beyond the words, that is yourself. In meditation you have to

eventually submerge your ego, the meditator, and the action of the

meditation, and finally yourself. It is a long way, and in this

world now people have no time to do that…. The world is going so fast

now. So my Master found the shortest way….

 

Father and mother have given you one word and you have become that,

and you have become so powerful in accepting that. But if what is

wrong is accepted, it still cannot be right. What to do? All your

teachers have said this is true and you have accepted this. You had

no name when you took birth, and when the name was given you accepted

this and said, "I'm this." So if the Master gives you one word, you

can meditate and you can go ahead, but it's a long way with many

obstacles. And in the end you must submerge the mantra, the

meditator, and yourself and then be That. It is a long process. The

ant moves slowly and if he climbs a tree he may die before he reaches

the destination so he will need more births.

 

The bird can fly from tree to tree in no time. My Master found the

bird's way. He was taught the ant's way by his Master, Bhausaheb

Maharaj. Bhausaheb Maharaj left his body in 1914 and people at that

time were not so keen on understanding. There were four co-disciples

with my Master, Siddharamshwar Maharaj, and my Master wanted to find

a shorter way, but his co-disciples said the meditative way was given

and no other way was necessary

 

So my Master went to Bijapur alone and was determined to find another

way for the final understanding. He sat for nine months in

meditation without getting up. He said I may die, but I want to find

out the easiest way. He was not a learned person but the caliber of

his mind was so great that nothing could stop him…. He was only with

his guru, Bhausaheb Maharaj for 6 years, but after four years he

decided to renounce the world and he became a disciple and began

spreading the teaching of meditation. He did that for two years and

then decided to leave and find another alternative to meditation.

Even though his Master had only taught meditation, his mind and faith

was so strong that he decided to go forward….Finally, after nine

months of sitting, Bhausaheb appeared to him and said, "Okay you

understand, and I agree with you, so now you can get up!" [This was

after Bhausaheb had left his body]

 

Meditation is okay, but by thinking one can go faster. So he decided

to teach the bird's way. In the scriptures it is said first you

renounce the world and then knowledge will be given. He said no,

first tell the people and give understanding, then if they renounce

the world it will have some meaning. To renounce without

understanding is meaningless. But when you understand that what you

see and perceive is not true, then if you renounce it will have some

meaning. When the world is not true and all is illusion what

alternative do you have but to renounce?...

 

Then he gave the final teaching: knowledge is also wrong. Finally

the knowledge must be submerged and then you are He. Then there is

nothing to fear.

 

Be fearless. Roar like a tiger. Don't be a mouse always running

away. People worry and fear so much. What to do and not do in this

world?.... Oh, I've committed a mistake…When it is nothing, what is

a mistake and what is not a mistake? When you understand, then the

power is there and everything you do is correct. Come on now, have

that much courage to say this. Say anything, it's okay, wherever you

put your finger is the reality. The power you get should be strong

in your mind. Not to fear anybody or anything. Mind accepts

everything and then fears. And that fear is taken out by the

Master. He makes you roar like a lion. You take everything as true,

the mind accepts. Then the name given by your father and mother,

that word you die with. If you make your mind strong, whether you do

meditation or go by understanding you can go to the final reality.

If an ant concentrates on a bee, one day it's sure to fly. So

without wings you have to fly. So I say you are not to question why,

do your duty and die. Duty does not mean helping an old lady across

the street. It means duty to the Self. Understanding yourself: Who

am I?

 

You misrepresent yourself and everything you do is wrong. You are

He, and whatever you do is correct, I can dare say that! Why?

Because it is all an illusion. You must have a strong

understanding. But your will-power is weakened by your thoughts and

doubts. Thoughts make the difference in the caliber of the mind….

the mind has become a chicken-hearted thing. Don't be chicken-

hearted, have a Master's heart….

 

So be the aspirant of the real Master. I don't say that I'm the real

Master otherwise you will say I'm a real Master and that is ego for

me. (Pointing to a picture of his Master, Siddharameshwar Maharaj.)

He is the real Master and he gave that understanding to me and an ant

became a bee. An ant became fearless and then can run anywhere

without any fear. So always be fearless… Master then says, "It's

your choice now." One way is towards happiness and joy, the other

way towards troubles and misery. Where you want to go, you go.

Master is a pointer only. He takes you up to the door and he's

finished. He doesn't remain there. Be strong in the mind and have

the caliber to accept what he says. If you put faith in the Master

the caliber becomes stronger……

 

Understanding takes out your fears. If you were not He, then there

would be no chance to remove your fears. But He is fearless, and due

to your mind, ignorance, you say, "I am going to die." Saint

says, "I was never born, how can I die?" No death for you. No

bondage and no liberation either. You are ever free. Who is he to

give anyone liberation. Since you say, "I am the body," the Master

says he can make you free. You create monsters for yourself and then

you fear them. Master gives you understanding…that is all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..

[Guest guest]

Namaste Durgaji.

 

Thanks for the long post.

 

However, the bird's way is nothing new. It is the contemplation

advised by all Advaita masters. Through the understanding gained by

contemplation, words read and listened to become our own property.

That frees us from the tyranny of imagined limitations and fear of

pain, discomfort, death and birth. Ultimately, it totally vapourises

our individual heaviness to a Oneness with all and establishes us in

our rightful immortality.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

__________________

 

 

advaitin, "durga" <durgaji108> wrote:

> As there has been some discussion about lineages and the Master's

> word lately, I thought some people might enjoy this discription of

> the teachings of Shri Siddharameshwar Maharaj, the guru of

> Nisargadatta and Ranjit Maharaj.....

>

> Below is a description of the "bird's way" which was discovered by

> Shri Siddharameshwar Maharaj.