Guest guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Krishna, I presume you are a member of adviataL list and not advaitin list. I am posting your mail assuming the moderators of both lists do not object. Restrictions were imposed by the moderators of both lists to make sure that the discussions are centered on the advaita rather than getting sidetracked to other mata-s. Some of these aspects related to suShupti were discussed recently by Shree Ananda Wood from the point of Shree Atmaanandaji analysis. Those files can be obtained from archives of the advaitin list, if you are a member. If anyone wants to respond to Shree Krishna's request, one can do so directly to his address or at least include his address for him to receive the response. Hari OM! Sadananda --- Krishna K <nomadeva wrote: > Dear Sadananda garu, > > I attempted to post this on the advaita list, but for some reason the > posting is not reaching the list, though I am a member. I'd be > grateful > if you can forward it to the list. > > Thanks, > KK > ---- > > Namaste, > > I have a couple of questions re jIvanmukti. I'd be thankful for any > responses. > > 1. Can jIvanmukti happen to a person in any state other than the > waking > one? In svapnAvastha? In suShupti? > > 2. How does advaita analyse the state of mUrchChA when one is not > conscious of oneself? In particular, does avidyA have its effect then? > If not, then isn't this state the closest to (or as same as) the final > state? Agreed that there isn't any self-realization per se, but isn't > it that self-realization is needed only when avidyA seems to have its > effect? > > Thanks, > Krishna ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 > > > Namaste, > > > > I have a couple of questions re jIvanmukti. I'd be thankful for any > > responses. > > > > 1. Can jIvanmukti happen to a person in any state other than the > > waking > > one? In svapnAvastha? In suShupti? Krishna, here is my understanding: If bondage is due to ignorance antidote for that is knowledge. For knowledge to take place one needs viveka - or discriminative intellect. Hence that is considered as the most important qualification for a sadhak. It is our experience that in swapna avastha - the intellect is not manifesting in its full potential - that is the reason why the subconscious mind plays out its suppressed vasana-s that cannot be exhausted in the waking state. >From this it follows that one can not gain any new knowledge in the svapnaavastha. Hence it is very rare that any one can gain that highest knowledge in the swapanaavastha. When I was a child, I used to keep most difficult books under my pillow, thinking that I will gain all that knowledge during sleep! Having said that - In Theosophy, there is a belief that when JK was newly adopted, they were initiating him while he was asleep by the so called teachers in the Himalaya-s. He has supposed to have written the notes of the teaching he received - entitled - 'at the feet of the masters'. JK in later years never commented on that while he was criticizing the Guru-s and traditions, etc. In deep sleep state, even that (sukshma shariira) available in the dream state, is now folded and - what is there is only kaarana shariira -the causal body or unmanifested ignornace - only. Ignorance is bliss - if we say - it is only from the point of no duality in the deep sleep state and hence absence of all sufferings. This is the sleep of the aj~naani. But no self knowledge. At least that is my understanding. > > > > 2. How does advaita analyse the state of mUrchChA when one is not > > conscious of oneself? In particular, does avidyA have its effect > then? mUrchChA is just like deep sleep. One is only in the kaarana shariira in that state and no knowledge of any kind takes place, since intellect is not available. manaeva manushyaanaam kaaranam bandha mokshayoH| Mind is responsible for both bondage and liberation - hence we need the mind to operate for the knowledge to take place. > > If not, then isn't this state the closest to (or as same as) the > final > > state? Hence it is not, as explained above. Otherwise every body can take drugs and reach self-realization! >Agreed that there isn't any self-realization per se, but > isn't > > it that self-realization is needed only when avidyA seems to have > its > > effect? Self-realization is needed to get rid of avidya about oneself - not to just to oppose the effects of ignorance. Self realization involves not only knowing oneself but knowing that the self one knows is the self in all - or there is nothing other than the self - this exactly what is implied in sarva bhuutastam aatmaanam sarva bhuutanica aatmani. - even that 'sarva' is realized as notions in the mind only - realization is ultimately ekam eva advitiiyam. That is my understanding of the advaitic position. Hari OM! Sadananda > > > > Thanks, > > Krishna > > > ===== > What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is > your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. > > > > Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus > ===== What you have is His gift to you and what you do with what you have is your gift to Him - Swami Chinmayananda. Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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