Guest guest Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Original Message ----- "chittaranjan_naik" <chittaranjan_naik > In the Brahma Sutra Bhasya (Gambhirananda'a translation), Section IV, > Topic 9, Sankaracharya states that anyone in any stage of life may > attain knowledge. Raikva and Gargi from the Upanishads and Samvarta > from the Smritis have been cited as examples. It is also stated that > even japa may lead to knowledge depending on the deeds and practices > in previous lives. > There is enough evidence to show that Sankaracharya advocated sanyasa > ashrama for "attaining" moksha, but at the same time he did not deny > that moksha is open to anyone and in any stage of life. Please note that the sutra which you had mentioned is not about people in 'any stage of life'. It is about people NOT in any of the 4 stages of life, like a widow for example. Such a person can do prayer or japa which 'helps' in knowledge. According to SankarAchArya, practices such as japa would purify one's antahkaraNa making an adhikAri out of him. I dont think AchArya would ever say that japa would lead to knowledge of the Self ! So this sutra is only pointing out that people who are not in the 4 stages of life can also do religious practices which will help in raising of knowledge and not that people in any of the stages of life will attain moksha. Hari Om > Submitted with respect, > Chittaranjan namaskaar, if japa can lead to purification of antahkarana then Adi Shankaracharya in his commentary on kenopnishad mentions that gnana arises only in people with pure antahkarna(sh-8,khand-4). i don't think gnana is based on books. it is based only on experience, that's why he says-- The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. he also mentions in his commentary to that shloka in kenopnishad that people with impure antahkarna can never be gnani, in fact if they are given upadesa then even they are seen to have ajnana or opposite jnana like indra, virochan etc. So only in people with pure antahkarana achieved thru' tapa etc, jnana arises. He also says-- Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realisation(jnana) of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means. so when moksha is not possible without jnana and jnana is not possible without pure antahkarna, why can't japa lead to moksha if it can lead to pure antahkarna. moreover, in Shiva purana, Shiva himself say to parvati-- japa of omkaar has made me omniscient & i do japa of it every second. He also says that it's due to japa of omkaar brahama has got brahmatava, vishnu has vishunatva & shiva has got shivatava one who worships omkaar is jivonmukta(liberated), he gets free of all his sins & gets the supreme abode(param pada.) He says-- japa of omkaar with understanding of its meaning is the worship of om(also patanjali yoga sutra, ch.1, 26 tadjapsadarthbhaavanam) omkaar is the supreme(param) mantra & with the japa of this one becomes immortal jap of omkaar fulfils all the desires & gives moksha. also ADI Shankaracharya say the same thing as -- omkkaar bindu sanyuktam nityam dhyaayanti yoginah, kaamdam mokshadam chaive omkaaraaye namo namah. but Shiv ji also mention the importance of guru mukh(diksha) before japa. at last i'd like to mention a shloka from japuji sahib which says-- those who have meditated on God's name, will leave this world after putting toil in right direction, they will go with brilliant faces; and many more will be emancipated along with them. and about the God's name, He says in the beginning of japuji sahib-- ik omkaar satnam but along with it He also says--satguru prasad(realised by the grace of guru) with regards, gautam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 advaitin, "gautam madan" <pranavomkaar@r...> wrote: > namaskaar, > if japa can lead to purification of antahkarana then Adi Shankaracharya > in his commentary on kenopnishad mentions that gnana arises only in people with pure antahkarna(sh-8,khand-4). i don't think gnana is based on books. it is based only on experience, that's why he says-- > The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. > he also mentions in his commentary to that shloka in kenopnishad that people with impure antahkarna can never be gnani, in fact if they are given upadesa then even they are seen to have ajnana or opposite jnana like indra, virochan etc. So only in people with pure antahkarana achieved thru' tapa etc, jnana arises. He also says-- > Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realisation(jnana) of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means. > so when moksha is not possible without jnana and jnana is not possible without pure antahkarna, why can't japa lead to moksha if it can lead to pure antahkarna. > moreover, in Shiva purana, Shiva himself say to parvati-- > japa of omkaar has made me omniscient & i do japa of it every second. > He also says that it's due to japa of omkaar brahama has got brahmatava, > vishnu has vishunatva & shiva has got shivatava > one who worships omkaar is jivonmukta(liberated), he gets free of all his sins & gets the supreme abode(param pada.) > He says-- > japa of omkaar with understanding of its meaning is the worship of om(also patanjali yoga sutra, ch.1, 26 tadjapsadarthbhaavanam) > omkaar is the supreme(param) mantra & with the japa of this one becomes immortal > jap of omkaar fulfils all the desires & gives moksha. > also ADI Shankaracharya say the same thing as -- > omkkaar bindu sanyuktam nityam dhyaayanti yoginah, > kaamdam mokshadam chaive omkaaraaye namo namah. > but Shiv ji also mention the importance of guru mukh(diksha) before japa. > at last i'd like to mention a shloka from japuji sahib which says-- > those who have meditated on God's name, will leave this world after putting toil in right direction, > they will go with brilliant faces; and many more will be emancipated along with them. > and about the God's name, He says in the beginning of japuji sahib-- > ik omkaar satnam > but along with it He also says--satguru prasad(realised by the grace of guru) > with regards, > gautam. > Namaste Gautamji, Your arguments have a lot of merit in them. Knowledge, being the very nature of Atman, is ever present. Thus what is required for knowledge to shine forth is to make the mind transparent by removing the murkiness from its deepest level. Since japa helps in achieving this, it is also a means. The final release is only by Grace which is the Awakening to the Eternal Knowledge. Chittaranjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Dear Respected Gautum: I just like to add to what you have elaborated for further clarification on the significance of "vowels" as it pertains to the discussion with due respects. >>>>>>> if japa can lead to purification of antahkarana then Adi Shankaracharya in his commentary on kenopnishad mentions that gnana arises only in people with pure antahkarna(sh-8,khand-4). i don't think gnana is based on books. it is based only on experience, <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< You are absolutely correct. However, we quote the statement from our "scriptures" because that just validates the experience. Just like a road sign that confirms that we are on the correct path. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's why he says-- The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. he also mentions in his commentary to that shloka in kenopnishad that people with impure antahkarna can never be gnani, in fact if they are given upadesa then even they are seen to have ajnana or opposite jnana like indra, virochan etc. So only in people with pure antahkarana achieved thru' tapa etc, jnana arises. He also says-- Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realisation(jnana) of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means. so when moksha is not possible without jnana and jnana is not possible without pure antahkarna, why can't japa lead to moksha if it can lead to pure antahkarna. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Shankaraacharya summarizes this in vivakachuDaamaNi. arthasya nishcayo dR^iShTo vicaareNa hitoktitaH | na snaanena na daanena praaNaayamashatena vaa || 13 || Liberal meaning - It is the meaning that is important than the academic exercise of rituals. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moreover, in Shiva purana, Shiva himself say to parvati-- japa of omkaar has made me omniscient & i do japa of it every second. He also says that it's due to japa of omkaar brahama has got brahmatava, vishnu has vishunatva & shiva has got shivatava one who worships omkaar is jivonmukta(liberated), he gets free of all his sins & gets the supreme abode(param pada.) He says-- japa of omkaar with understanding of its meaning is the worship of om (also patanjali yoga sutra, ch.1, 26 tadjapsadarthbhaavanam) omkaar is the supreme(param) mantra & with the japa of this one becomes immortal jap of omkaar fulfils all the desires & gives moksha. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< You are absolutely correct that the significance of tadjapsadarthbhaavanam 1.28 but it is also important to understand why the sutra "tasya vaacakaH praNavaH" 1.27. Om is the reader and designator of "that" (that – the trikaala abaadhita satya). This actually help one understand the significance of omkar itself. PaNiniya shixaa tell us – anakshara.m hataayuShya.m visvara.m vyadhipiiDitam | akshataa shastraruupeNa vajra.m patati mastake || Meaning – If we make a mistake with the vowel then it changes the meaning. However, if we make an error in the consonant (root verb) then it leads to the death. Example - changing vowel from "i" to "u" If you are trying to invoke "indira" you may accidentally be calling "u.ndiraa" (mouse). This is true in the English language as well. Paul – male but Paula – female. Paula will never respond if one keep on calling for Paul. And her big-brother Paul may actually show- up. Thus changing vowel changes the meaning. A word with altered meaning is a meaningless word. Therefore, clear pronunciation is extremely important. That is why the vowel encompassed in OM is the reader or designator or pointer of that truth (whatever that is being designated). Maithili folks pronounce "Sh" as "kha". Yajurvedi Brahmins also pronounce "Sh" as "kha". The last consonant "dnya" is pronounced as "gny", "dgnya", "j~n", "g~n" depending on the place of orign. In Bengal "sh", "Sh", & "s" are all pronounced as "sh", however, the folks from assam take the cake because that pronounce all the forms of "sh, Sh & s" as "ha" - Therefor there is a famous shloka that tell that never accept a blessing from people residing in the East. aashivaada nag R^ihvyiyaata puurvadeshanivaasinaH | shataayuriti vaktave hataauritivaadinam || Meaning – Never aks for a blessing for people residing in the east because although thay may be saying "shataayH bhava" as a blessing to increasse your life span to hundred years. It will turn out to be a curse as "hataayaH bhava". Hope above explaination affirms the significance of vowels as encompassed in "OM". You have also pointed out the recitation of OM in Japaji - They real significance behind will atomically becomes clear from the above narration as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'd like to mention a shloka from japuji sahib which says-- those who have meditated on God's name, will leave this world after putting toil in right direction, they will go with brilliant faces; and many more will be emancipated along with them. and about the God's name, He says in the beginning of japuji sahib-- ik omkaar satnam but along with it He also says--satguru prasad(realised by the grace of guru) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Gurunaanakji was a yajurvedi that is why he always pronounced "Sh" as "kha". "Om satunaamu karata purukhu nirbhau" Meaning – Om is the one that identifies the "pruShaa" (the seeence) that is why perfecting the correct pronunciation is stressed in the shikshaa valli of taittriya upaniShda. "Om shikshaa.m vyakhyaasyaamaH | varNaH svaraH | maatraa balam | saama santaana: | ityuktaH shiikshaadhyaayaH | 2.1 || Regards, Dr. Yadu advaitin, "gautam madan" <pranavomkaar@r...> wrote: > Original Message ----- > "chittaranjan_naik" <chittaranjan_naik> > > In the Brahma Sutra Bhasya (Gambhirananda'a translation), Section IV, > > Topic 9, Sankaracharya states that anyone in any stage of life may > > attain knowledge. Raikva and Gargi from the Upanishads and Samvarta > > from the Smritis have been cited as examples. It is also stated that > > even japa may lead to knowledge depending on the deeds and practices > > in previous lives. > > There is enough evidence to show that Sankaracharya advocated sanyasa > > ashrama for "attaining" moksha, but at the same time he did not deny > > that moksha is open to anyone and in any stage of life. > > Please note that the sutra which you had mentioned is not about > people in 'any stage of life'. It is about people NOT in any of the 4 stages > of life, like a widow for example. Such a person can do prayer or japa which > 'helps' in knowledge. According to SankarAchArya, practices such as japa > would purify one's antahkaraNa making an adhikAri out of him. I dont think > AchArya would ever say that japa would lead to knowledge of the Self ! > So this sutra is only pointing out that people who are not in the 4 stages > of life can also do religious practices which will help in raising of > knowledge and not that people in any of the stages of life will > attain moksha. > Hari Om > > > Submitted with respect, > > Chittaranjan > namaskaar, > if japa can lead to purification of antahkarana then Adi Shankaracharya > in his commentary on kenopnishad mentions that gnana arises only in people with pure antahkarna(sh-8,khand-4). i don't think gnana is based on books. it is based only on experience, that's why he says-- > The study of the Scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. > he also mentions in his commentary to that shloka in kenopnishad that people with impure antahkarna can never be gnani, in fact if they are given upadesa then even they are seen to have ajnana or opposite jnana like indra, virochan etc. So only in people with pure antahkarana achieved thru' tapa etc, jnana arises. He also says-- > Neither by Yoga, nor by Sankhya, nor by work, nor by learning, but by the realisation(jnana) of one's identity with Brahman is Liberation possible, and by no other means. > so when moksha is not possible without jnana and jnana is not possible without pure antahkarna, why can't japa lead to moksha if it can lead to pure antahkarna. > moreover, in Shiva purana, Shiva himself say to parvati-- > japa of omkaar has made me omniscient & i do japa of it every second. > He also says that it's due to japa of omkaar brahama has got brahmatava, > vishnu has vishunatva & shiva has got shivatava > one who worships omkaar is jivonmukta(liberated), he gets free of all his sins & gets the supreme abode(param pada.) > He says-- > japa of omkaar with understanding of its meaning is the worship of om(also patanjali yoga sutra, ch.1, 26 tadjapsadarthbhaavanam) > omkaar is the supreme(param) mantra & with the japa of this one becomes immortal > jap of omkaar fulfils all the desires & gives moksha. > also ADI Shankaracharya say the same thing as -- > omkkaar bindu sanyuktam nityam dhyaayanti yoginah, > kaamdam mokshadam chaive omkaaraaye namo namah. > but Shiv ji also mention the importance of guru mukh(diksha) before japa. > at last i'd like to mention a shloka from japuji sahib which says-- > those who have meditated on God's name, will leave this world after putting toil in right direction, > they will go with brilliant faces; and many more will be emancipated along with them. > and about the God's name, He says in the beginning of japuji sahib-- > ik omkaar satnam > but along with it He also says--satguru prasad(realised by the grace of guru) > with regards, > gautam. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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