Guest guest Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 ATMANUBHAVA – Experience, Knowledge and Consciousness Pranams to all advaitins The last two weeks of interaction and expression was an exhilarating ‘experience’! As it progressed, the faint glimmerings of what was called ‘knowledge’ ( differentiating it from’experience’) became visible to me. It was stated that ‘knowledge’ is immutable, indivisible and permanent. ‘Experience’, on the other hand, is a creature of time… it arises, sustains and vanishes. It is the ‘knowledge’ that is relevant and the true outcome of the interaction, not the ‘experience’. The question arises : Is ‘experience’ the necessary basis for ‘knowledge’? Can ‘knowledge’ be attained without ‘experience’? >From the interaction, it emerges that our consciousness operates at three levels , viz, ignorance, relative awareness and total awareness. 1.The state of Ignorance ( Avidya, Ajnana ) One starts life in a state of ‘ignorance’, taking the mind, body and the world of objects as ‘real’. In this state, one thinks of oneself as the ‘experiencer’ of the ‘experience’. The nature of the ‘experience’ is ‘conditioned ‘ by the condition of the mind..( the vaasanas from earlier births, the conditioning of parents, the influences of the environment in which one lives, grows up and works, and the genetic inheritance that, as a human being, one has inherited from the lineage of humans extending back from both parents in this life ). On the basis of these conditionings, the mind of the ‘experiencer’ establishes, creates or perceives, a network of ‘relationships’. The nature of these ‘relationships’ is unique to every human being. The ‘experiences’ seem to occur on the basis of these ‘relationships’. Hence, as the mind, body, and the world of objects ‘perceived’ are all transient, changeable and temporary by nature, these ‘experiences’ also appear to arise, sustain and vanish. The ‘attachments’ which have been created, cause various ‘feelings’ and other ‘experiences’ to occur. The ‘ignorant ‘ person takes all these to be ‘real’ and falls a victim to the ‘feelings’ and ‘experiences’. However, as has been stated, through the ‘ advaitic vaasanas’, the blessings of various persons who have reached ‘higher’ levels of ‘awareness’, and finally the Grace of the God Principle, one gradually begins to ‘observe’ the mind, the body and the world of objects from a ‘distance’, so to speak. One becomes ‘aware’ of the ‘experience’ and the ‘experiencer’. 2. The state of ‘relative awareness’ ( Dualistic, transactional ) In this state, one begins to believe that one’s ‘true self’, the Real’I’ is different from the mind, body and the world of objects. To achieve this stage of ‘relative awareness’, many of the ‘attachments’ which were taken to be real, are discarded. As one goes through one’s life, one becomes like unto an actor in a drama. The life that one is apparently going through and ‘experiencing’ seems to become ‘unreal’. One plays the part as called for from time to time, but always from the position of only an actor, saying the lines as per the script ( sampradaya or tradition, the culture, the organization rules, the law of the land, etc ). One is all the time ‘aware ‘ that the ‘experiences’ are ephemeral and the Truth is something else. ( I think I am strongly rooted at this moment in this ‘relative awareness’ level. A lot of ‘attachments’ have withered away but many remain. However, the fortunate thing is I seem to be ‘aware’ of them ! ) 3. The state of ‘absolute awareness’ ( total consciousness, total awareness) >From this state of ‘relative awareness’, by the Grace of the Almighty, it is stated that one may be ‘blessed’ to get a glimpse of what is called the ‘absolute awareness’ state or ‘pure awareness’ or ‘total consciousness’ as it is also called. All sadhana at this level is directed to remaining at the ‘absolute awareness’ state, the abidance in Being. The aspirant is strongly advised to cling to this ‘awareness’ all the time. It is a difficult thing. It is like a person who through Grace or advaitic vaasanas, perceives the mountain afar. He crosses the forest, swims across the river which suddenly comes up across his tracks, stumbles over rocks at the foot of the mountain, and clambers up, holding on to all sorts of things available, and experiencing the ice and snow, keeps going up, slipping and struggling, until he somehow reaches the top. Looking around and below, he remembers the path he followed, the obstacles he faced, and his foot slips… and he comes sliding down. He gets up again and tries again, and so on, and perhaps, only when he stops looking down and forgets the past, will he really be able to concentrate on the top part and ultimately reaches the top quite relaxedly and sits there , lost in himself! ( I am reminded of this imagery from the time I once climbed a mountain at Nasik, in order to motivate a group of youngsters in the factory who had formed a ‘Trekkers Club ‘. The promontory was called Anjeneri and was said to be the birthplace of Hanuman of Ramayana fame … Nasik is said to be the place where the Panchavati stood and where Ravana abducted Sita …. They call it a Rama Kshetra…. As I struggled up, the youngsters who were swarming up around me almost like little Vanaras ( Monkeys) , kept telling me ,” Don’t look down, Sir, see that tree on top… that is where we are going !” And instead of my motivating them, I was the one who was thrilled when we reached the top! There was a lovely lake up there and a shrine and small bungalow, which they said had belonged to a British Forest officer long ago.. who had built it and used to come up for a break ! ) 4. The Two Crucial States So that is where I am today. Occasional trips into ‘ total awareness’ and then coming down into ‘relative awareness’ with a thump when the bell rings or the telephone rings or someone shakes me up and so on. I believe Ramana used the term ‘I-I’ to connote this . Life can be fascinating ( like a cricket match ) but it can detract from one’s sadhana. Even when one is in the ‘relative awareness’ mode, one is advised to play the game of life with total detachment. 5. The Mind as a Projector The world one experiences is a ‘ projection’ of the mind. The mind is like a projector. There is such a vast storehouse of films for it to pick from, stored from past births, from all the conditioning in school, college, workplace, from society, from one’s present life. The mind has its own programming to play a particular film during sleep and something else in the waking state. But it is only projecting. The picture one ‘experiences’ is not real. The reality is one’s self which is looking at all this. 6. Looking at myself I am not sure that at the ‘relative awareness’ level there is only one ‘awareness’. However,the feeling that at this level there are two entities, one’s true self and the world, may be an error. It is stated that it is just ‘natural’ and a suggestion is made that this is a limited or provisional perspective. I am still stuck in the thought that just being ‘aware’ of all this cannot ‘correct the error’ or ‘ change the perspective’. It is necessary for me to ‘let go’ of something and I cant for the world imagine what that something is or how to let go ! I thank advaitins for guiding me to the Mandukya Upanishad and the Karika of Sri Gaudapada. I do have a copy of it published by the Ramakrishna Mission with a translation by Swami Gambhirananada. I will study it carefully and get back. 7. Conclusion For the moment may I seek your comments on this ‘understanding ‘ ! I also seek your gracious blessings for I sense that you are all looking at me from atop the mountain and will guide me to the top ! Warm regards and pranams Mohan India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Namaste Mohanji, All these experiences you mention are surely due to Grace. I only want to share my thought on one thing: > I am still stuck in the thought that just being `aware' of all > this cannot `correct the error' or ` change the perspective'. > It is necessary for me to `let go' of something and I cant for > the world imagine what that something is or how to let go ! I think it is letting go of everything, of becoming completely empty, of letting only THAT remain. I am very far from all these things, and am writing this from down- under, not looking from the top. :-) With regards, Chittaranjan advaitin, S Mohan <mohanirmala> wrote: > > ATMANUBHAVA – Experience, Knowledge and Consciousness > > > > Pranams to all advaitins > > The last two weeks of interaction and expression was an exhilarating `experience'! > > > > As it progressed, the faint glimmerings of what was called `knowledge' ( differentiating it from'experience') became visible to me. > > > > It was stated that `knowledge' is immutable, indivisible and permanent. `Experience', on the other hand, is a creature of time… it arises, sustains and vanishes. > > It is the `knowledge' that is relevant and the true outcome of the interaction, not the `experience'. > > > > The question arises : > > Is `experience' the necessary basis for `knowledge'? Can `knowledge' be attained without `experience'? > > > > From the interaction, it emerges that our consciousness operates at three levels , viz, ignorance, relative awareness and total awareness. > > > > 1.The state of Ignorance ( Avidya, Ajnana ) > > > > One starts life in a state of `ignorance', taking the mind, body and the world of objects as `real'. In this state, one thinks of oneself as the `experiencer' of the `experience'. The nature of the `experience' is `conditioned ` by the condition of the mind..( the vaasanas from earlier births, the conditioning of parents, the influences of the environment in which one lives, grows up and works, and the genetic inheritance that, as a human being, one has inherited from the lineage of humans extending back from both parents in this life ). > > > > On the basis of these conditionings, the mind of the `experiencer' establishes, creates or perceives, a network of `relationships'. The nature of these `relationships' is unique to every human being. The `experiences' seem to occur on the basis of these `relationships'. Hence, as the mind, body, and the world of objects `perceived' are all transient, changeable and temporary by nature, these `experiences' also appear to arise, sustain and vanish. The `attachments' which have been created, cause various `feelings' and other `experiences' to occur. > > > > The `ignorant ` person takes all these to be `real' and falls a victim to the `feelings' and `experiences'. However, as has been stated, through the ` advaitic vaasanas', the blessings of various persons who have reached `higher' levels of `awareness', and finally the Grace of the God Principle, one gradually begins to `observe' the mind, the body and the world of objects from a `distance', so to speak. One becomes `aware' of the `experience' and the `experiencer'. > 2. The state of `relative awareness' ( Dualistic, transactional ) > > > > In this state, one begins to believe that one's `true self', the Real'I' is different from the mind, body and the world of objects. To achieve this stage of `relative awareness', many of the `attachments' which were taken to be real, are discarded. As one goes through one's life, one becomes like unto an actor in a drama. The life that one is apparently going through and `experiencing' seems to become `unreal'. One plays the part as called for from time to time, but always from the position of only an actor, saying the lines as per the script ( sampradaya or tradition, the culture, the organization rules, the law of the land, etc ). One is all the time `aware ` that the `experiences' are ephemeral and the Truth is something else. > > > > ( I think I am strongly rooted at this moment in this `relative awareness' level. A lot of `attachments' have withered away but many remain. However, the fortunate thing is I seem to be `aware' of them ! ) > > > > 3. The state of `absolute awareness' ( total consciousness, total awareness) > > > > From this state of `relative awareness', by the Grace of the Almighty, it is stated that one may be `blessed' to get a glimpse of what is called the `absolute awareness' state or `pure awareness' or `total consciousness' as it is also called. All sadhana at this level is directed to remaining at the `absolute awareness' state, the abidance in Being. The aspirant is strongly advised to cling to this `awareness' all the time. > > > > It is a difficult thing. It is like a person who through Grace or advaitic vaasanas, perceives the mountain afar. He crosses the forest, swims across the river which suddenly comes up across his tracks, stumbles over rocks at the foot of the mountain, and clambers up, holding on to all sorts of things available, and experiencing the ice and snow, keeps going up, slipping and struggling, until he somehow reaches the top. Looking around and below, he remembers the path he followed, the obstacles he faced, and his foot slips… and he comes sliding down. He gets up again and tries again, and so on, and perhaps, only when he stops looking down and forgets the past, will he really be able to concentrate on the top part and ultimately reaches the top quite relaxedly and sits there , lost in himself! > > > > ( I am reminded of this imagery from the time I once climbed a mountain at Nasik, in order to motivate a group of youngsters in the factory who had formed a `Trekkers Club `. The promontory was called Anjeneri and was said to be the birthplace of Hanuman of Ramayana fame … Nasik is said to be the place where the Panchavati stood and where Ravana abducted Sita …. They call it a Rama Kshetra…. As I struggled up, the youngsters who were swarming up around me almost like little Vanaras ( Monkeys) , kept telling me ," Don't look down, Sir, see that tree on top… that is where we are going !" And instead of my motivating them, I was the one who was thrilled when we reached the top! There was a lovely lake up there and a shrine and small bungalow, which they said had belonged to a British Forest officer long ago.. who had built it and used to come up for a break ! ) > > > > 4. The Two Crucial States > > > > So that is where I am today. Occasional trips into ` total awareness' and then coming down into `relative awareness' with a thump when the bell rings or the telephone rings or someone shakes me up and so on. I believe Ramana used the term `I-I' to connote this . Life can be fascinating ( like a cricket match ) but it can detract from one's sadhana. Even when one is in the `relative awareness' mode, one is advised to play the game of life with total detachment. > > > > 5. The Mind as a Projector > > > > The world one experiences is a ` projection' of the mind. The mind is like a projector. There is such a vast storehouse of films for it to pick from, stored from past births, from all the conditioning in school, college, workplace, from society, from one's present life. The mind has its own programming to play a particular film during sleep and something else in the waking state. But it is only projecting. The picture one `experiences' is not real. > > > > The reality is one's self which is looking at all this. > > > > 6. Looking at myself > > > > I am not sure that at the `relative awareness' level there is only one `awareness'. However,the feeling that at this level there are two entities, one's true self and the world, may be an error. > > It is stated that it is just `natural' and a suggestion is made that this is a limited or provisional perspective. > > I am still stuck in the thought that just being `aware' of all this cannot `correct the error' or ` change the perspective'. It is necessary for me to `let go' of something and I cant for the world imagine what that something is or how to let go ! > > > > I thank advaitins for guiding me to the Mandukya Upanishad and the Karika of Sri Gaudapada. I do have a copy of it published by the Ramakrishna Mission with a translation by Swami Gambhirananada. I will study it carefully and get back. > > > > 7. Conclusion > > > > For the moment may I seek your comments on this `understanding ` ! I also seek your gracious blessings for I sense that you are all looking at me from atop the mountain and will guide me to the top ! > > > > Warm regards and pranams > > Mohan > > > > > India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Namaste Mohanji, You said: >In this state, one begins to believe that one's 'true self', >the Real 'I' is different from the mind, body and the world >of objects. To achieve this stage of 'relative awareness', >many of the 'attachments' which were taken to be real, are >discarded. As one goes through one's life, one becomes like >unto an actor in a drama. The life that one is apparently >going through and 'experiencing' seems to become 'unreal'. Continuing with Chittaranjanji's great practice of quoting from great literature, allow me to present these famous lines from Shakespeare's play 'Macbeth'. Basically, the story is about the destructive ambition of king Macbeth and his wife, i.e. the seductive dangers of samsara. He has just received news of his wife's death, and what he says shows that a 'bad guy' can still retain some philosophical insight into life ... especially when suffering the consequences of his actions. "Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time, And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." By the way, there is one potent way to realize that the drama of life is 'unreal' as you say. Imagine you are to be executed tomorrow at the crack of dawn! Let me finish by saying that there is something that amuses me about your messages, and those of Chittaranjanji and others. It is that they are so eloquent and literary. And I have seen this in real life. Just the other night, I attended a satsangh on the Gita where a young bride fresh from India gave a flawless and eloquent discussion she had prepared. And another young Indian-American woman in that group has done the same thing on several occasions. There are many smart American students, but I think you would be hard-pressed to find any these days who would express themselves with any kind of eloquence. They would be more likely to talk like journalists, articulate but with no flourish. I think that is because Indians still preserve the quaint old habit of reading good literature, something the English did for many centuries (but I'm not sure if they still do!). Hari Om! Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Namaste Benji. Macbeth has great Indian predecessors in RAvaNa and DuryOdhana. The former was so knowledgeable that, while he was breathing his last on the battle-ground hit by RAma's arrow, RAma urged his brother Lakshmana to request his guidance and advice in several matters without wasting time. The latter (DuryOdhana)is famed to have lamented his inability to desist from perpetrating evil although he knew everything about what is right and what is wrong, what is real and what is unreal. Good bad guys, eh!? In fact, all our ancient villains were adorably knowledgeable! PraNAms. Madathil Nair _________________________________ advaitin, Benjamin <orion777ben> wrote: .....allow me to present these famous lines from Shakespeare's > play 'Macbeth'. Basically, the story is about the destructive > ambition of king Macbeth and his wife, i.e. the seductive dangers of > samsara. He has just received news of his wife's death, and what he > says shows that a 'bad guy' can still retain some philosophical > insight into life ... especially when suffering the consequences of > his actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Namaste Benjaminji, advaitin, Benjamin <orion777ben> wrote: > Let me finish by saying that there is something that amuses me about > your messages, and those of Chittaranjanji and others. It is that > they are so eloquent and literary. And I have seen this in real > life. Just the other night, I attended a satsangh on the Gita where > a young bride fresh from India gave a flawless and eloquent > discussion she had prepared. And another young Indian-American woman > in that group has done the same thing on several occasions. There > are many smart American students, but I think you would be > hard-pressed to find any these days who would express themselves with > any kind of eloquence. They would be more likely to talk like > journalists, articulate but with no flourish. I think that is > because Indians still preserve the quaint old habit of reading good > literature, something the English did for many centuries (but I'm not > sure if they still do!). Isn't it all part of the topsy-turvy world in which the modern Indian has so much to learn about Indian philosophy from the Europeans and Americans? It is perhaps time to rewrite that old poem and say: East is West, and West is East And forever the twain shall be wedded. With regards, Chittaranjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Namaste Chittaranjan, >East is West, and West is East >And forever the twain shall be wedded. Thank you for this positive and optimistic thought. A ray of light in our rapidly deteriorating Kali Yuga! Hari Om! Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.