Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Namaste Chittaranji, Excellent post on the brain. There is a move against the idea that consciousness emerges as complexity increases. Chalmers inclines towards that countervailing tendency as does Rosenberg. Essays are to be found on Chalmer's consciousness site under the panpsychist heading. The core intuition would be that consciousness is not the sort of thing that could emerge or evolve. In broad advaitic terms everything is pervaded by consciousness as its constituitive reality. It is non-different from consciousness and therefore knows itself. However this knowledge is not reflexive, it does not know that it knows itself. This is the 'sat' stage. The pressure to express its nature is the mainspring of evolution and it gives rise to increased complexity. As to what the precise mechanism that allows the self-aware consciousness to pass over to the reflexively self-aware consciousness is could be debated for a long time. Prepare to trace the anfractuosities of the bicameral brain, language developement, short-term memory etc. Suffice to say that at a certain point the human begins to talk into his own ear - the 'cit' stage. The next stage is to trace consciousness back to its source - efflorescent ananda. The brain/mind is the material cause of human consciousness but Consciousness is the constituitive reality of all this. It is non-dual and is not evident due to superimposition. You say: "Thus, it would be true to say that something in the world is a cause of another only in so far as this is the manner of ordering the world, and not because the cause is something intrinsic in the object." This is a deep saying and no doubt we will return to these issues in the future. Best Wishes, Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Namaste Michael, I could follow you perfectly till you came to this passage in your last message: Quote The brain/mind is the material cause of human consciousness but Consciousness is the constituitive reality of all this. Unquote 1. I understand material cause as the stuff of which a thing is made. How can the stuff of consciousness be Brain/ Mind? 2. If Brain/mind are the stuff of consciousness and consciousness is the constitutuve reality of all this - If 'all this' includes Brain/Mind as well, then there is a problem of circularity. I am aware that your messages are very deep and once in a way, atleast I tend to get lost in them. But usually after some reflection I have been able to extricate myself. Not so on this occassion. Please help. Regards, Venkat - M BT Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save £80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Namaste Benji. I know that ancient flying machines are off topic here. Yet, there is this irresistible urge to continue. A technological base starting from screwdrivers is our current demand. But, how about an Erich von Daniken scenario - although he has been accused of scientific charlatanism? What Dr. Gopalakrishnan presents (By the way, he is Honorary Director. Sorry my abbreviation confused you to reading it Honourable, an adjective we normally reserve for less knowledgeable Ministers.)are well-framed equations in the form of easily recallable Sanskrit verses. Appreciate your good words about my alleged eloquence. PraNAms. Madathil Nair _______________ advaitin, Benjamin <orion777ben> wrote: > > I will check out the Honorable Dr. Gopalakrishnan, but at this moment > I still retain doubts about Vedic flying machines! It seems to me > you need an immense technology base, built up over generations, which > starts with screwdrivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Namaste Nairji >I know that ancient flying machines are off topic here. >Yet, there is this irresistible urge to continue. I think consciousness is the ultimate flying machine! :-) But I will take a look at your sites. I am sure there are many misunderstandings about ancient Indian civilization. After all, if I remember correctly, Mohenjodaro had plumbing many thousands of years ago, which is rather impressive. Anyhow, on the topic of technology and spirituality, I have an opinion which you may find somewhat interesting and amusing. I believe there must be pure worlds with highly spiritual inhabitants (waiting for complete moksha to the utterly formless). Now can you imagine these pure worlds filled with cars, asphalt, factories, garbage cans, etc. Or the people wearing business suits or watching mindless television? I cannot. This may sound silly, but in my opinion the people in these pure worlds must be wearing long robes and living a simple life close to nature, with plenty of meditation and satsanghs. Of course, they have plenty of fruit trees to provide dinner and crystal streams to bathe in. Everywhere is a tropical paradise. And there are not too many people. The point is that technology seems ugly and 'unspiritual' to me. At an even more philosophical level, I wonder whether any kind of a body, no matter how illusory, is also ugly and impure. Are not the insides of our bodies impure and disgusting? Shankara seems to think so; you will find the quote in Vivekachudamani. So do angels have bodies made of light? I wonder about these things sometime. Hari Om! Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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